why you should be on keto

I read the article mentioned in the original post.  Are there any good books or internet sources for information about implementing CKD for weight training/bodybuilding?  Sorry if that is somewhere else in this long thread and I haven't found it yet?  Thanks!  :)

RollingStone


for burning fat and building muscle I do around maintenance for the first three days of no carb, deficit on the 2nd three days of no carb, and large surplus on the carb up.  Leave the rest to the hormones.

I imagine a bulk going quite well on this diet with a 2 day carb up like already mentioned. 

I would stuff my face on the 2 day carb up and just eat what I felt on the no carb phase, not worrying too much about getting a ton of food in.

My reasoning (which has worked well for me)

first 3 days no carb: eating alot more fats.  Priming myself for higher fat metabolism later on in the week.

second 3 days no carb: metabolism primed; go into deficit and burn away fat for three days.  Add in cardio to maximize fat burning

Carb load: caloric surplus (1000 calories or more over).  Youre very glycogen depleted at this point and dont have to worry about insulin storing carbs as fat and it will go to refueling muscle glycogen instead.  This is the point where the muscle is built.  Hormones are pumped out here that will jack the metabolism back up and prepare you for the next week of fat burning.  Without the carb load your metabolism will eventually be shot and youll be doing atkins.

So you are saying that the 5 days of no carbs, don't worry about calories, but make sure I eat way too much on the 2 day carb up, right?

It makes sense that way, even if it's not what you meant. I would ideally get leaner in the 5 days, and add muscle in the 2 days and become more carb sensitive to help me get even leaner and gain even more muscle on the weekends.

So the carb day is Saturday and Sunday, on the weekends? Every weekend?

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


So the carb day is Saturday and Sunday, on the weekends? Every weekend?

It doesnt matter what days you do it...

To perry:  I dont think youre going to get any leaner by doing it that way.  It might be a good way to bulk up without gaining fat but I dont see any fat loss going on.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Jane

RollingStone


for burning fat and building muscle I do around maintenance for the first three days of no carb, deficit on the 2nd three days of no carb, and large surplus on the carb up.  Leave the rest to the hormones.

I imagine a bulk going quite well on this diet with a 2 day carb up like already mentioned. 

I would stuff my face on the 2 day carb up and just eat what I felt on the no carb phase, not worrying too much about getting a ton of food in.

My reasoning (which has worked well for me)

first 3 days no carb: eating alot more fats.  Priming myself for higher fat metabolism later on in the week.

second 3 days no carb: metabolism primed; go into deficit and burn away fat for three days.  Add in cardio to maximize fat burning

Carb load: caloric surplus (1000 calories or more over).  Youre very glycogen depleted at this point and dont have to worry about insulin storing carbs as fat and it will go to refueling muscle glycogen instead.  This is the point where the muscle is built.  Hormones are pumped out here that will jack the metabolism back up and prepare you for the next week of fat burning.  Without the carb load your metabolism will eventually be shot and youll be doing atkins.

okay and this works for you?? I need to lose weight...and like I said before it gets harder as I get smaller...so when I was obese it was easy to lose weight. Now it is super hard. I must be missing something here because I cannot get my body  to lose the weight...I have done low carb...
 
hhmm... comes down to...I am doing it wrong. Maybe the problem is a surplus of calories so then I maintain or stall..I lost some weight last time I checked...but it seems like such a slow process.
 
I
 
y'all make if fly off!  

Jane, I have been doing (pretty much) traditional CDK, for 2 months now. I have to say, the results are rather interesting. I found if I am really in a proper calculated deficient, I drop pounds, quickly (several weeks it happened reliably). If I am lazy and just eat the correct foods, keep my carbs right... and do a decent ball park with my intake (and i am quite good at estimating) and make sure it is maintenance or under... weight stays same... but stuff shifts all sorts of around (several weeks happened reliably)... the things that have happened to my glute ham tie (under butt) is nothing short of shocking (in a very pleasant way, even the BF noticed), must be and can only be the magical elusive loose fat gain muscle scenario. I have to say this is a horrible diet, I have disgusted myself with the meals I have prepared (and I love fat... it's my favorite of the three). Seriously historically troublesome and and unshift-able fat deposits are shifting on! I am pleased.

SO any way JANE,  STOP THIS CRAZY THING!!!!!! (well not you Jane)...

But seriously how do you come off of this diet, I have about a month left in me and I am done... I need to look forward to the reintroduction of carbs in my diet....But I know this needs to be done delicately... as to not undo what was done.... SO how to reintroduce?

thehardway




Jane, I have been doing (pretty much) traditional CDK, for 2 months now. I have to say, the results are rather interesting. I found if I am really in a proper calculated deficient, I drop pounds, quickly (several weeks it happened reliably). If I am lazy and just eat the correct foods, keep my carbs right... and do a decent ball park with my intake (and i am quite good at estimating) and make sure it is maintenance or under... weight stays same... but stuff shifts all sorts of around (several weeks happened reliably)... the things that have happened to my glute ham tie (under butt) is nothing short of shocking (in a very pleasant way, even the BF noticed), must be and can only be the magical elusive loose fat gain muscle scenario. I have to say this is a horrible diet, I have disgusted myself with the meals I have prepared (and I love fat... it's my favorite of the three). Seriously historically troublesome and and unshift-able fat deposits are shifting on! I am pleased.

SO any way JANE,  STOP THIS CRAZY THING!!!!!! (well not you Jane)...

But seriously how do you come off of this diet, I have about a month left in me and I am done... I need to look forward to the reintroduction of carbs in my diet....But I know this needs to be done delicately... as to not undo what was done.... SO how to reintroduce?

Eh.  I dont have experience with this but when I come off Ill probably switch to the TKD, carb cycling, or timed carb diet.  Something where carbs are strategically consumed.
I think if you reach the limits of the ckd, then its gonna be impossible to not put fat back on when you quit doing it just because of the fact that the diet is so good at keeping fat off and that youve become adapted to it.  If I decide to go off the ckd and onto something else Im pretty much just gonna accept a pound or two.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Oh I see. I think I will put my trust in you on this RS. I am going to try your method you currently use. I think I will also go for DC training hopefully to get a bit more stronger.

JMBS, you could get The Anabolic Diet by Dr. Mario DePas-something.

Just curious, but if we do end up cheating mid-week (throwing off the cycle and setting back ketosis) should we wait an extra amount of time before the carb up, or should we keep the carb up day the same (once a week) regardless?

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

Reset


Just curious, but if we do end up cheating mid-week (throwing off the cycle and setting back ketosis) should we wait an extra amount of time before the carb up, or should we keep the carb up day the same (once a week) regardless?

Cheating is for losers.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Reset


Just curious, but if we do end up cheating mid-week (throwing off the cycle and setting back ketosis) should we wait an extra amount of time before the carb up, or should we keep the carb up day the same (once a week) regardless?

If you want to get really lean, you are going to have to stop cheating and make sure your carb up is flawless. Otherwise you are going to end up stuck.

I would guess just count another 5 or 6 days and carb up.

I have to wonder why questions about cheating even come up.  If you even think about, it means youre just not in the right mind set for this diet.  Your goals have to be more important than the taste of your food.

If you cant handle not cheating your diet, bodybuilding aint your hobby.  Go run marathons or something.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone


I have to wonder why questions about cheating even come up.  If you even think about, it means youre just not in the right mind set for this diet.  Your goals have to be more important than the taste of your food.

If you cant handle not cheating your diet, bodybuilding aint your hobby.  Go run marathons or something.

no, while I agree you can not cheat on this diet... because you can't it f'up all you are trying to do... that is a big load of crap... if it's hobby it's not your life....

there are many successful ways of eating that are better for you than this Keto nonsense, for the long term...

People are looking to improve their health and lifestyle and appearance, when they CASUALLY pick up bodybuilding... It is not reasonable to assume that everyone want 6% bodyfat, in perpetuity...and certainly not everyone has the ability to maintain that dedication it takes to stay that low... We have full time, families, Commitments, Responsibilities, obligations... and then the fitness lifestyle..

That was just a crap comment... You think too highly of this KETO business... even though it certainly works.

and nobody has an answer as to how I taper off this diet? I know I will gain a bit of fat back, but I am not looking to have a fat flood, 5 days after I pick carbs back up again. I want to do  nice modest recomp... and not gain back all that cam off.

you prolly have to add them back in verrrry slowly and stick with low gi carbs and fruits.

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

I would add about 30g every couple of days until you are back into a moderate stage, hold the moderate stage for a week and then move on up to where you want to be with carb intake.

thehardway

RollingStone


I have to wonder why questions about cheating even come up.  If you even think about, it means youre just not in the right mind set for this diet.  Your goals have to be more important than the taste of your food.

If you cant handle not cheating your diet, bodybuilding aint your hobby.  Go run marathons or something.

no, while I agree you can not cheat on this diet... because you can't it f'up all you are trying to do... that is a big load of crap... if it's hobby it's not your life....

there are many successful ways of eating that are better for you than this Keto nonsense, for the long term...

People are looking to improve their health and lifestyle and appearance, when they CASUALLY pick up bodybuilding... It is not reasonable to assume that everyone want 6% bodyfat, in perpetuity...and certainly not everyone has the ability to maintain that dedication it takes to stay that low... We have full time, families, Commitments, Responsibilities, obligations... and then the fitness lifestyle..

That was just a crap comment... You think too highly of this KETO business... even though it certainly works.

The fitness lifestyle?  Thats lame, if you dont have the willpower to avoid eating food you shouldnt be eating, this simply isnt your thing.  Im not sayin it has to be keto, but whatever youre doing, stick to it.  Its not even hard and it doesnt take any kind of crazy dedication to just not eat crap.

I can understand people who cant get to the gym all the time and stuff like that but people who cant turn down cake or whatever makes no sense.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone

thehardway

RollingStone


I have to wonder why questions about cheating even come up.  If you even think about, it means youre just not in the right mind set for this diet.  Your goals have to be more important than the taste of your food.

If you cant handle not cheating your diet, bodybuilding aint your hobby.  Go run marathons or something.

no, while I agree you can not cheat on this diet... because you can't it f'up all you are trying to do... that is a big load of crap... if it's hobby it's not your life....

there are many successful ways of eating that are better for you than this Keto nonsense, for the long term...

People are looking to improve their health and lifestyle and appearance, when they CASUALLY pick up bodybuilding... It is not reasonable to assume that everyone want 6% bodyfat, in perpetuity...and certainly not everyone has the ability to maintain that dedication it takes to stay that low... We have full time, families, Commitments, Responsibilities, obligations... and then the fitness lifestyle..

That was just a crap comment... You think too highly of this KETO business... even though it certainly works.

The fitness lifestyle?  Thats lame, if you dont have the willpower to avoid eating food you shouldnt be eating, this simply isnt your thing.  Im not sayin it has to be keto, but whatever youre doing, stick to it.  Its not even hard and it doesnt take any kind of crazy dedication to just not eat crap.

I can understand people who cant get to the gym all the time and stuff like that but people who cant turn down cake or whatever makes no sense.

avoiding food you shouldn't be eating 90% of the time is not hard at all... even 95%, 99% of the time... but for the rest of your life not putting a no food in your mouth... That is utterly ridiculous... that is not a good quality of life for the vast majority of the population... and that is one of those things that prevent people from starting any type of health/ fitness/ bodybuilding/ sports, type activity...because they feel it's too final... If you can do that fine, I would love to hear what you have to say on this issue 4 years from now...

Your talking with someone who enjoys VERY HIGH quality food... I eat very well, regular food consumption does not include garbage... I don't "cheat", frankly because there is little poor quality food that I find paletable... However I am going to have a pizza from my favorite local shop (not while CDK, but during the course of my regular life)... does that invalidate 4 years of training consistantly (in some facate or another) 6 days a week (95% of those 4 years), and say the other 8000 some odd high quality good healthy, meals, I have had over the past 4 years... ... should I just stop, give up put 100 lbs back on me, loose 75% of my strength  because I had a white flour crust... or a milkshake when I was on Vacation????

I cant ever understand.  Food is just a means to an end for me.  I can and will eat good for the rest of my life unless I stop caring about fitness altogether.

Its like some people get off to food or something.  Its food.  I wish I could just have an IV feed me exactly what i need all the time.

Goals are different for everyone.  Most people just dont wanna suck and be fat and weak because its causing them self-esteem issues. 

I wanna be a superhuman.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

I get where your coming from, but insinuating you can not have an excellent body, and good to great performance, unless your perfect 100% of the time is misleading and quite discouraging to new enthusiasts...

And if you ask me you do not eat well.. It might work for you... it might be the most optimal for your appearance... hell you might even perform best eating this way, your constant lack of carbs, and carb loading/ manipulation 9and you carefully track your body and performance, so I am sure it is optimal for you, at least right now)... But I wouldn't consider that eating good, well, or healthy...

but, I am going to pull out the old lady card on this one... You are very young, I would love to hear your perspective in 5 years... your what 19, your freshman year of college this year?

thehardway


I get where your coming from, but insinuating you can not have an excellent body, and good to great performance, unless your perfect 100% of the time is misleading and quite discouraging to new enthusiasts...

And if you ask me you do not eat well.. It might work for you... it might be the most optimal for your appearance... hell you might even perform best eating this way, your constant lack of carbs, and carb loading/ manipulation 9and you carefully track your body and performance, so I am sure it is optimal for you, at least right now)... But I wouldn't consider that eating good, well, or healthy...

but, I am going to pull out the old lady card on this one... You are very young, I would love to hear your perspective in 5 years... your what 19, your freshman year of college this year?

You dont consider it healthy but thats just because it doesnt follow the regular guidelines of a healthy diet.  Tha fact is though, that you dont have much to back up what youre saying and studies are showing that keto diets are actually improving bloodwork.  (I have studies if you need them)

Other issues seem to be vitamin deficiencies and acidicity (if thats a word) which is helped by eating alot of green vegetables and I would advise fruit in the carb load. 

But who doesnt have vitamin deficiencies?  No one eats enough vegetables.  Very few actually.  I can take a supplement of potassium, calcium, and magnesium and its just as good as vitamins in the enriched flours that high carb people are eating.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

HW,
   I'm glad you (a girl of all people) had the cajones.  I'm just as guilty, but it's really easy for "hobby" to turn into "obsession."  Know what I'm saying?  As the years go by, more "stuff" gets added to the old plate:  job, marriage, house, kids.  There simply isn't enough time, energy, nor money to do it all.  Have to prioritize and something gets short-changed.  Believe me, there will come a time when other people in your life will think that your going to the gym is not the most important thing for you to be doing at that moment.  And your family may not be into keto like you are.  It's real fun to play short order cook and feed everyone what they want to eat.

RS,
    Your "tough love" has been a nice kick in the pants for me.  Keeps me going and honest.  But it is possible to overdo it, to the detriment of other equally important activities and responsibilities.  If you can do it, great!  If it's high enough priority in someone's life, great!  But understand that for many this really is a "hobby," however much we overdo it.  What do I need a lot of strength for?  Why do I need to look better?  It's mostly about "fun" for me.  If I'm going to become a slave to it, then screw it!

Makes sense.  I guess its just more of a passion to me.

Im trying to start fighting mma soon when college starts.  Just one more reason I feel like I have to go hard or go home.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

All i'm going to say is there is a reason RS looks better than all of you (and me) at such a young age and while genetics may play a role in it, it's not everything. He simply puts more into this. Everyone doesn't have to follow his diet and such but you aren't going to get quite his results as quickly if everything in your life isn't spot on like his and you definently won't ever achieve his level of body fat %. What you put in is what you get out of it. It's that simple.

PK,
   I hate you!  There's no magic pill?

although to play devils advocate to myself, I do think that changing it up once in a while (such as cheating on your diet) may actually be good for you. However I would say this would be very very rarely, almost like a deload on your diet maybe 2 back to back days a month or something not once every week or couple of days.

PumaKrieg


although to play devils advocate to myself, I do think that changing it up once in a while (such as cheating on your diet) may actually be good for you. However I would say this would be very very rarely, almost like a deload on your diet maybe 2 back to back days a month or something not once every week or couple of days.

I agree completely.  Youll adapt doing the same thing day in and day out.  Guilt free huge meal to boost the metabolism.  You can kick it right back into gear afterward.  But like you said, very rarely.

For me, sometimes I gorge on a jar of peanut butter

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

What do you think about oly lifts as HIIT?

I just took my old barbell and weights (they only go up to like 100lb) outside and just started doing cleans into snatches into front squats into other random oly movements. Then I would back off and rest a minute or two by walking.

I think I will do this and some sprints

Perrynaytor


What do you think about oly lifts as HIIT?

I just took my old barbell and weights (they only go up to like 100lb) outside and just started doing cleans into snatches into front squats into other random oly movements. Then I would back off and rest a minute or two by walking.

I think I will do this and some sprints

I LOVE IT.

haha.  I just started doing it recently.  By the time Im done Im drenched in sweat and my heart is pounding.  And its so much more fun than running.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Rollingstone, do you eat Best Foods Mayo? Are you ever concerned about the SOYbean oil in it? I have Best Foods Mayo CANOLA, but I dislike its taste although its almost identical to the original. The aftertaste just seems sweetish and artificial. Still less than 1gm per tablespoon.

dtes


Rollingstone, do you eat Best Foods Mayo? Are you ever concerned about the SOYbean oil in it? I have Best Foods Mayo CANOLA, but I dislike its taste although its almost identical to the original. The aftertaste just seems sweetish and artificial. Still less than 1gm per tablespoon.

I eat hellmanns.  Personally Im not convinced that soy causes hormonal issues.  Ill keep eating it.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.