why you should be on keto

Perrynaytor


No, see I stated that I knew that my set up isn't anything really like a normal CKD. I get that. But this is bulking and I was just considering a small carb meal or two mid week.

But, if I don't, the super compensation should be good on the weekends. I will skip the mid week carb meals.

I got the principles. I am just experimenting.

ya i figured u understood. i would just strongly disagree with those mid week carb meals just because of the fact that the magic that can come from a keto bulk is super high glycogen super compensation. higher then a normal bulk could ever give you

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

How many weekend carbs you think for the super compensation? I was thinking if I didn't have any carbs through the week, I would eat upwards of 2,000g of carbs the weekend carb up.

Perrynaytor

DxM


You actually take shots of evoo? lmfao

Uh yeah, your point?

It makes up any quality calories I am missing with a meal or it adds quality fats to my whey shakes.

Well said. Wasn't trying to be an a-hole or anything, i just never thought that would actually be... healthy..

But apparently im wrong

BULKING LIKE A BEAST! AND IT FEELS SOOOOO GOOD!

Supps: 100% Whey protein, Creatine Ethyl Ester, Fish Oil, Jack3d

To answer the question on the last page, theres more to follow than just <30g carbs a day.  If you eat too much protein and not enough fat you can also get kicked out of keto because protein will convert to glucose at 58% efficiency if theres no other energy coming in.  Its suggested to get around your lbm in g of protein and the rest of you calories for the day in fat.

Ive heard of people who do twice a week carb ups but to me it defeats the purpose.  It would probably be better to just time you carbs in the morning and pre and post workout and dont eat anymore for the day or on off days so you get the best insulin response at those important times.

If I bulked on keto, Id just do a 36-48 hour heavy carb-load compared to my usual less than 12 hours.  I havent decided if im gonna try this yet or not though.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone


To answer the question on the last page, theres more to follow than just <30g carbs a day.  If you eat too much protein and not enough fat you can also get kicked out of keto because protein will convert to glucose at 58% efficiency if theres no other energy coming in.  Its suggested to get around your lbm in g of protein and the rest of you calories for the day in fat.

Ive heard of people who do twice a week carb ups but to me it defeats the purpose.  It would probably be better to just time you carbs in the morning and pre and post workout and dont eat anymore for the day or on off days so you get the best insulin response at those important times.

If I bulked on keto, Id just do a 36-48 hour heavy carb-load compared to my usual less than 12 hours.  I havent decided if im gonna try this yet or not though.

how many carbs do you eat on the carb up day?  Do you still want to keep sugar low on that day?  What about protein and fat on that day?  Also, what day is best to do this on (I workout mon, tues, thurs, fri.. cardio everyday)?

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

Reset

RollingStone


To answer the question on the last page, theres more to follow than just <30g carbs a day.  If you eat too much protein and not enough fat you can also get kicked out of keto because protein will convert to glucose at 58% efficiency if theres no other energy coming in.  Its suggested to get around your lbm in g of protein and the rest of you calories for the day in fat.

Ive heard of people who do twice a week carb ups but to me it defeats the purpose.  It would probably be better to just time you carbs in the morning and pre and post workout and dont eat anymore for the day or on off days so you get the best insulin response at those important times.

If I bulked on keto, Id just do a 36-48 hour heavy carb-load compared to my usual less than 12 hours.  I havent decided if im gonna try this yet or not though.

how many carbs do you eat on the carb up day?  Do you still want to keep sugar low on that day?  What about protein and fat on that day?  Also, what day is best to do this on (I workout mon, tues, thurs, fri.. cardio everyday)?

If you want to get it perfect heres the guidlines put simply.

Multiply your lean mass in kg by 8-10.  Thats how many carbs you want in the first 24 hours.  1.5g of carbs per kg lbm (dextrose is best) pwo after depletion.  1.5g carbs per kg lbm 2 hours later.  Spread the rest out even every 2 hours after that for the remainder of the day.  The first 24 hours will give you 100% glycogen recompensation if done like this.  For the 2nd 24 hours, 5g carbs per kg lbm spread throughout the day can take you to 150% glycogen recompensation. 

The first 2 carb meals are best done with high gi (sugar) liquid carbs.  I break up one of the big boxes of sweettarts and drink them with water (disgusting but it gets the job done).  You want to taper down from high GI carbs to lower GI carbs as you get deeper into the carb up.  The end of the first day and the second day if you do it should be low GI carbs like shredded wheat, oatmeal, or brown rice.

With regards to cardio, its up to you and how much fat you wanna lose.  Im trying to do HIIT towards the end of the no carb phase when Im burning the most fat.  The first three days of no carbs seem like more of a prime to get into a fast fat burning metabolism, and Ill eat alot more the first three days.  Then the second 3 days of no carbs I cut it down to less fat and calories overall, do more cardio and burn the fat.

I would do more cardio, but HIIT seems to burn me out for when I do legs and Im also pretty concerned with getting my squat and deadlift up so I dont do as much as I could. Im also trying to maintain the high glycogen levels in the beginning of the no carb for my heavy lifting and dont want to burn all of the glycogen doing cardio.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

I think this keto bulking thing would be too hard. It's really hard to put down 3500 calories with 60% or more coming from fat.

I think I will just use carbs. Keto has made me more carb sensitive anyway, so they work for me instead of against me like they once did.

Thought i would update a little bit, my energy levels are ****ing awsome, i dont get bloated, my workouts arent suffering imo but i just started dc like 2 weeks ago so about to start round 2 and well see for sure, abs are starting to become more defined. cant wait to see what happens in next 2 months, i plan to do keto for atleast 3 months.

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

RollingStone

Reset

RollingStone


To answer the question on the last page, theres more to follow than just <30g carbs a day.  If you eat too much protein and not enough fat you can also get kicked out of keto because protein will convert to glucose at 58% efficiency if theres no other energy coming in.  Its suggested to get around your lbm in g of protein and the rest of you calories for the day in fat.

Ive heard of people who do twice a week carb ups but to me it defeats the purpose.  It would probably be better to just time you carbs in the morning and pre and post workout and dont eat anymore for the day or on off days so you get the best insulin response at those important times.

If I bulked on keto, Id just do a 36-48 hour heavy carb-load compared to my usual less than 12 hours.  I havent decided if im gonna try this yet or not though.

how many carbs do you eat on the carb up day?  Do you still want to keep sugar low on that day?  What about protein and fat on that day?  Also, what day is best to do this on (I workout mon, tues, thurs, fri.. cardio everyday)?

If you want to get it perfect heres the guidlines put simply.

Multiply your lean mass in kg by 8-10.  Thats how many carbs you want in the first 24 hours.  1.5g of carbs per kg lbm (dextrose is best) pwo after depletion.  1.5g carbs per kg lbm 2 hours later.  Spread the rest out even every 2 hours after that for the remainder of the day.  The first 24 hours will give you 100% glycogen recompensation if done like this.  For the 2nd 24 hours, 5g carbs per kg lbm spread throughout the day can take you to 150% glycogen recompensation. 

The first 2 carb meals are best done with high gi (sugar) liquid carbs.  I break up one of the big boxes of sweettarts and drink them with water (disgusting but it gets the job done).  You want to taper down from high GI carbs to lower GI carbs as you get deeper into the carb up.  The end of the first day and the second day if you do it should be low GI carbs like shredded wheat, oatmeal, or brown rice.

With regards to cardio, its up to you and how much fat you wanna lose.  Im trying to do HIIT towards the end of the no carb phase when Im burning the most fat.  The first three days of no carbs seem like more of a prime to get into a fast fat burning metabolism, and Ill eat alot more the first three days.  Then the second 3 days of no carbs I cut it down to less fat and calories overall, do more cardio and burn the fat.

I would do more cardio, but HIIT seems to burn me out for when I do legs and Im also pretty concerned with getting my squat and deadlift up so I dont do as much as I could. Im also trying to maintain the high glycogen levels in the beginning of the no carb for my heavy lifting and dont want to burn all of the glycogen doing cardio.

i just did some estimates on LBM (not sure exactly what my bf% and stuff are).. but that would mean i need 800 grams of carb?  Am i wrong or is that insane?  I would need to like pound loaves of bread for that lol.

So what day do you do as your carb up day?  Like i said, i work out mon, tues, thurs, and fri.. with wed, sat, and sun off (still do cardio)... what would be the best day for me to do it (maybe like saturday.. during my 2 days off.. or do you have to work out on your carb up day.. seems implied in your post above)?

It seems that you do it with two carb up days.. (5g per lbm kg on the 2nd 24 hours) is that correct?
What are dextrose carbs and what are they found in?

I have read a lot about it.. you talked about days that are burning the max fat.  Here's what i understand (correct me if i'm wrong please)-
You keep carbs so low that your body is in a state of ketosis (after like 3-4 days).  During this time it produces keytones and burns fat because of the low carbs..  then the carb up day... is that just to keep you from like starving of carbs or what?

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

Reset

i just did some estimates on LBM (not sure exactly what my bf% and stuff are).. but that would mean i need 800 grams of carb?  Am i wrong or is that insane?  I would need to like pound loaves of bread for that lol.

So what day do you do as your carb up day?  Like i said, i work out mon, tues, thurs, and fri.. with wed, sat, and sun off (still do cardio)... what would be the best day for me to do it (maybe like saturday.. during my 2 days off.. or do you have to work out on your carb up day.. seems implied in your post above)?

It seems that you do it with two carb up days.. (5g per lbm kg on the 2nd 24 hours) is that correct?
What are dextrose carbs and what are they found in?

I have read a lot about it.. you talked about days that are burning the max fat.  Here's what i understand (correct me if i'm wrong please)-
You keep carbs so low that your body is in a state of ketosis (after like 3-4 days).  During this time it produces keytones and burns fat because of the low carbs..  then the carb up day... is that just to keep you from like starving of carbs or what?

Depending on how long your carb-load lasts. I think RS does two days now because he is already shredded and wants to get his lifts bigger. If your looking to lose optimal fat then you will probably want to either;

• Get up real early on saturday and do your extra depletion workout then carb up for the whole of saturday.
• Do your depeletion workout saturday evening and start your carb up straight after and carry on untill sunday night.

800 carbs is nothing, trust me you will want more. 

I  dont even do a 24 hour carb up.  Mine usually ends before 12 hours has passed.  Experiment.

And the easiest way to take dextrose or maltodextrin which is also good is a powder purchased as a supplement but if you have none of that, there are certain candies that its in.  I know sweettarts, spree, and smarties

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

GingerBetty

Reset

i just did some estimates on LBM (not sure exactly what my bf% and stuff are).. but that would mean i need 800 grams of carb?  Am i wrong or is that insane?  I would need to like pound loaves of bread for that lol.

So what day do you do as your carb up day?  Like i said, i work out mon, tues, thurs, and fri.. with wed, sat, and sun off (still do cardio)... what would be the best day for me to do it (maybe like saturday.. during my 2 days off.. or do you have to work out on your carb up day.. seems implied in your post above)?

It seems that you do it with two carb up days.. (5g per lbm kg on the 2nd 24 hours) is that correct?
What are dextrose carbs and what are they found in?

I have read a lot about it.. you talked about days that are burning the max fat.  Here's what i understand (correct me if i'm wrong please)-
You keep carbs so low that your body is in a state of ketosis (after like 3-4 days).  During this time it produces keytones and burns fat because of the low carbs..  then the carb up day... is that just to keep you from like starving of carbs or what?

Depending on how long your carb-load lasts. I think RS does two days now because he is already shredded and wants to get his lifts bigger. If your looking to lose optimal fat then you will probably want to either;

• Get up real early on saturday and do your extra depletion workout then carb up for the whole of saturday.
• Do your depeletion workout saturday evening and start your carb up straight after and carry on untill sunday night.

What exactly is a depletion workout?  Just my last workout before I carb up?

What are some things that you guys eat to get all your carbs?

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

A depletion workout is one that helps completely deplete all glycogen from the body right before the carb up.

I would eat lots of potatoes, bread, lowfat ice cream, and one or two cheat meals of junk food. Maybe more.

so just do regular lifts.. or is it cardio and stuff?

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

Perrynaytor


A depletion workout is one that helps completely deplete all glycogen from the body right before the carb up.

I would eat lots of potatoes, bread, lowfat ice cream, and one or two cheat meals of junk food. Maybe more.

lol dang bread and ice cream??

I like to keep it pretty clean.  Mostly oatmeal, milk, shredded wheat or other whole cereals.

A good depletion workout hits every muscle with alot of volume, light weight, and short rest times.  Dont ever go to failure, you dont want it to break you down just burn up glycogen.   It doesnt count as one of my regular workouts and Ill hit the same muscles again the next day.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone

Perrynaytor


A depletion workout is one that helps completely deplete all glycogen from the body right before the carb up.

I would eat lots of potatoes, bread, lowfat ice cream, and one or two cheat meals of junk food. Maybe more.

lol dang bread and ice cream??

I like to keep it pretty clean.  Mostly oatmeal, milk, shredded wheat or other whole cereals.

A good depletion workout hits every muscle with alot of volume, light weight, and short rest times.  Dont ever go to failure, you dont want it to break you down just burn up glycogen.   It doesnt count as one of my regular workouts and Ill hit the same muscles again the next day.

same!

i start mine out with high GI liquid carbs, and then taper it down to really low GI foods (whole grains mostly) im super strict during my refeed days. i couldn't make myself cheat during my refeed

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

what exactly is the point of the carb up day?
What kind of workout do you do as your depletion?  Is it cardio or gym?
Is it okay to eat cheat meals on the carb up day?  (like fast food, etc)

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

Reset


what exactly is the point of the carb up day?
What kind of workout do you do as your depletion?  Is it cardio or gym?
Is it okay to eat cheat meals on the carb up day?  (like fast food, etc)

lol really??

I was being nice answering your questions that you couldve easily just found in the thread already, but I straight up answered these questions already in the last posts.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone

Reset


what exactly is the point of the carb up day?
What kind of workout do you do as your depletion?  Is it cardio or gym?
Is it okay to eat cheat meals on the carb up day?  (like fast food, etc)

lol really??

I was being nice answering your questions that you couldve easily just found in the thread already, but I straight up answered these questions already in the last posts.

You never explained the reason behind carb up day.  I missed your post on the workout routine (all muscles with little rest)..  And i was looking for other people's opinions on the idea of fast foods.. obviously you said you dont, but others might.

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

Reset

RollingStone

Reset


what exactly is the point of the carb up day?
What kind of workout do you do as your depletion?  Is it cardio or gym?
Is it okay to eat cheat meals on the carb up day?  (like fast food, etc)

lol really??

I was being nice answering your questions that you couldve easily just found in the thread already, but I straight up answered these questions already in the last posts.

You never explained the reason behind carb up day.  I missed your post on the workout routine (all muscles with little rest)..  And i was looking for other people's opinions on the idea of fast foods.. obviously you said you dont, but others might.

You need to restore glycogen levels so you can build muscle and keep up workout intensity.

Obviously fast food will only hurt you but its how bad do you want it.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

So I got a question. I've just finished my workout, I want my whey shake BUT I'm gonna do 30 mins of low intensity cardio for some extra fat burn! Do I wait till after the cardio for my shake or do I take it before?

Out of curiosity is there a way to know you're doing ketosis right?  I know there's the strips.. and some people say they feel weak, but i have been doing low carb for almost a weak and i have not noticed much difference.
On the carb up day do you feel like really full of energy or something? 
How bad does a cheat meal on a ketogenic diet hurt you (during carb up or just a regular ketosis day)?

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255

BUMP

for bulking.

Perrynaytor


BUMP

for bulking.

I have no experience with keto, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say that when you are calculating your percentages, just do it for 500 over maintainence instead of 500 under.  For the carb up day, do the same thing.

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

Well I got 3850 right now.

I just wonder if RS lost fat and gained muscle with over or under maintainence calories?

Ahem

Sweet, somebody brought this thread back up so I dont have the guilt of rejumping it. Heres my question for anybody who knows-what are your views towards CKD with one/two day refeed every week, versus CKD but without a refeed day for like four weeks, then using a whole week to carb up. Not a good idea? I havent refed in basically two weeks, but I dont wanna eat carbs for other health reasons now. Id rather put it off until I get better.

Perrynaytor


Well I got 3850 right now.

I just wonder if RS lost fat and gained muscle with over or under maintainence calories?

Ahem

i dont know about RS but i have managed to loose fat and gain muscle while on a deficit using keto. it all comes down to the carb up!!!

high gi liquid carbs in the beginning(dextrose, maltodextrin) and low gi carbs later on!

if u want to bulk on keto i would recommend a two day carb up consisting of high gi carbs the first day and low gi carbs the second day. some people like a mid week refeed and a smaller carb up while bulking on keto but its really up to you

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

for burning fat and building muscle I do around maintenance for the first three days of no carb, deficit on the 2nd three days of no carb, and large surplus on the carb up.  Leave the rest to the hormones.

I imagine a bulk going quite well on this diet with a 2 day carb up like already mentioned. 

I would stuff my face on the 2 day carb up and just eat what I felt on the no carb phase, not worrying too much about getting a ton of food in.

My reasoning (which has worked well for me)

first 3 days no carb: eating alot more fats.  Priming myself for higher fat metabolism later on in the week.

second 3 days no carb: metabolism primed; go into deficit and burn away fat for three days.  Add in cardio to maximize fat burning

Carb load: caloric surplus (1000 calories or more over).  Youre very glycogen depleted at this point and dont have to worry about insulin storing carbs as fat and it will go to refueling muscle glycogen instead.  This is the point where the muscle is built.  Hormones are pumped out here that will jack the metabolism back up and prepare you for the next week of fat burning.  Without the carb load your metabolism will eventually be shot and youll be doing atkins.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

dtes


Sweet, somebody brought this thread back up so I dont have the guilt of rejumping it. Heres my question for anybody who knows-what are your views towards CKD with one/two day refeed every week, versus CKD but without a refeed day for like four weeks, then using a whole week to carb up. Not a good idea? I havent refed in basically two weeks, but I dont wanna eat carbs for other health reasons now. Id rather put it off until I get better.

Not a good idea.  Your metabolism will be turtle slow towards the end of the no carb and then suddenly youll reintroduce carbs not just for a day, but for a week?  Once glycogen is restored, the carbs will spillover to fat - I imagine somewhere in day 2.  Then youll get knocked out of keto and continue to eat carbs for a week while your slow metabolism tries and fails to process all of them.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Jane

RollingStone


for burning fat and building muscle I do around maintenance for the first three days of no carb, deficit on the 2nd three days of no carb, and large surplus on the carb up.  Leave the rest to the hormones.

I imagine a bulk going quite well on this diet with a 2 day carb up like already mentioned. 

I would stuff my face on the 2 day carb up and just eat what I felt on the no carb phase, not worrying too much about getting a ton of food in.

My reasoning (which has worked well for me)

first 3 days no carb: eating alot more fats.  Priming myself for higher fat metabolism later on in the week.

second 3 days no carb: metabolism primed; go into deficit and burn away fat for three days.  Add in cardio to maximize fat burning

Carb load: caloric surplus (1000 calories or more over).  Youre very glycogen depleted at this point and dont have to worry about insulin storing carbs as fat and it will go to refueling muscle glycogen instead.  This is the point where the muscle is built.  Hormones are pumped out here that will jack the metabolism back up and prepare you for the next week of fat burning.  Without the carb load your metabolism will eventually be shot and youll be doing atkins.

okay and this works for you?? I need to lose weight...and like I said before it gets harder as I get smaller...so when I was obese it was easy to lose weight. Now it is super hard. I must be missing something here because I cannot get my body  to lose the weight...I have done low carb...
 
hhmm... comes down to...I am doing it wrong. Maybe the problem is a surplus of calories so then I maintain or stall..I lost some weight last time I checked...but it seems like such a slow process.
 
I
 
y'all make if fly off!  

Its a very slow process.  I think I lose not quite 3 lbs of fat in 3 months.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.