why you should be on keto

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:18 AM ( #301 )
Reset


I go back up to college in like a week and it's going to be VERY hard not to drink during the week (the weekends are a given)..  Doesn't alcohol set ketosis back a bit (it doesn't reset it, like cheating though, right?)?  I will make friday night my depletion work out, drink friday night and saturday night for sure, but as far as drinking on weekdays, how much will it set me back?  I also assume the best way to drink would be shots with diet soda?.. that would be no carbs (or close to it).  Beer would probably be the worst as far as carbs go.


Dont drink on the carb up lol how many times does that need repeated.  Drink any other time.  If youre gonna drink on the weekends, then do your carb load during the week.

And the best way to drink is no chaser, chug vodka from the bottle.  Stop being a vagina.

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:35 AM ( #302 )
RollingStone


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I go back up to college in like a week and it's going to be VERY hard not to drink during the week (the weekends are a given)..  Doesn't alcohol set ketosis back a bit (it doesn't reset it, like cheating though, right?)?  I will make friday night my depletion work out, drink friday night and saturday night for sure, but as far as drinking on weekdays, how much will it set me back?  I also assume the best way to drink would be shots with diet soda?.. that would be no carbs (or close to it).  Beer would probably be the worst as far as carbs go.


Dont drink on the carb up lol how many times does that need repeated.  Drink any other time.  If youre gonna drink on the weekends, then do your carb load during the week.

And the best way to drink is no chaser, chug vodka from the bottle.  Stop being a vagina.


Good call haha yeah I don't always chase but yeah that's a way better idea.  I'll figure out a new routine.. So drinking doesn't slow set back ketosis?

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:37 AM ( #303 )
Reset


RollingStone


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I go back up to college in like a week and it's going to be VERY hard not to drink during the week (the weekends are a given)..  Doesn't alcohol set ketosis back a bit (it doesn't reset it, like cheating though, right?)?  I will make friday night my depletion work out, drink friday night and saturday night for sure, but as far as drinking on weekdays, how much will it set me back?  I also assume the best way to drink would be shots with diet soda?.. that would be no carbs (or close to it).  Beer would probably be the worst as far as carbs go.


Dont drink on the carb up lol how many times does that need repeated.  Drink any other time.  If youre gonna drink on the weekends, then do your carb load during the week.

And the best way to drink is no chaser, chug vodka from the bottle.  Stop being a vagina.


Good call haha yeah I don't always chase but yeah that's a way better idea.  I'll figure out a new routine.. So drinking doesn't slow set back ketosis?


it does set back ketosis but the carb up is far more important than the no carb phase and the point is to be anabolic as possible.  Drinking during the carb up would just be extremely counter-productive.

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:33 PM ( #304 )
RollingStone


Reset


RollingStone


Reset


I go back up to college in like a week and it's going to be VERY hard not to drink during the week (the weekends are a given)..  Doesn't alcohol set ketosis back a bit (it doesn't reset it, like cheating though, right?)?  I will make friday night my depletion work out, drink friday night and saturday night for sure, but as far as drinking on weekdays, how much will it set me back?  I also assume the best way to drink would be shots with diet soda?.. that would be no carbs (or close to it).  Beer would probably be the worst as far as carbs go.


Dont drink on the carb up lol how many times does that need repeated.  Drink any other time.  If youre gonna drink on the weekends, then do your carb load during the week.

And the best way to drink is no chaser, chug vodka from the bottle.  Stop being a vagina.


Good call haha yeah I don't always chase but yeah that's a way better idea.  I'll figure out a new routine.. So drinking doesn't slow set back ketosis?


it does set back ketosis but the carb up is far more important than the no carb phase and the point is to be anabolic as possible.  Drinking during the carb up would just be extremely counter-productive.


a lot of websites will say during your carb up days feel free to drink a few beers and eat some pizza. this is not true!!!

dont drink during the carb loading phase and dont eat shxtty food either. you shouldn't really view it as a cheat day
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:07 AM ( #305 )
JMBS


Twisted,
   Am I right that the keto diet fails the "Don't F with Mother Nature" test?  Of course the typical American diet (don't know about yours over there) fails that test miserably as well.


Yea, where is twisty nowadays? He knows alot about why not to do keto.
 
My thoughts on keto: It causes your body to be funtioning in overdrive at all times. To turn fat into glucose is something the body is capeble of but as a last resort.
 
It deprives you of essential nutrients. Even if you take a vitamin, it will not replace the fruits and veggies you're missing.
 
Im not saying it's bad but you change the chemical hormones inside your body to make the process of ketosis kick in.
 
I know there are results and that is one thing as bodybuilders we will not compromise.
 
It is great for a short term. Like a spring-summer cut but to think that your body can funtion for a life time on eggs, chesses and other fats is stretching the use of this "special" diet.
 
However, there are some people such as diabetics that will use this diet through-out but that is b/c there is already some hormonal imbalance in their body and keto maybe a fix. But even then it is not safe to say these people are exempt from the long term effects of this diet, which are still widely unknown.
 
Im not dissin or doggin' but a balance is optimal for longevity. Results are hard to argue with but they are not worth depriving yourself of essential carbs needed and causing a long-term issue.
 
The goal for me is to be overall healthy. There is a fine line between risk and reward.
 
The CNS will exclusively use carbs. They are the source of energy for our brains and for our bodies(PNS). You can't expect to mess with the chemistry of how our bodies are wired and think nothing bad will come out of it.
 
Like I said im not knocking anybody, b/c to each his own. But this is just my two cents.
 
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:00 AM ( #306 )
IwillMakeIt


JMBS


Twisted,
   Am I right that the keto diet fails the "Don't F with Mother Nature" test?  Of course the typical American diet (don't know about yours over there) fails that test miserably as well.


Yea, where is twisty nowadays? He knows alot about why not to do keto.
 
My thoughts on keto: It causes your body to be funtioning in overdrive at all times. To turn fat into glucose is something the body is capeble of but as a last resort.
 
It deprives you of essential nutrients. Even if you take a vitamin, it will not replace the fruits and veggies you're missing.
 
Im not saying it's bad but you change the chemical hormones inside your body to make the process of ketosis kick in.
 
I know there are results and that is one thing as bodybuilders we will not compromise.
 
It is great for a short term. Like a spring-summer cut but to think that your body can funtion for a life time on eggs, chesses and other fats is stretching the use of this "special" diet.
 
However, there are some people such as diabetics that will use this diet through-out but that is b/c there is already some hormonal imbalance in their body and keto maybe a fix. But even then it is not safe to say these people are exempt from the long term effects of this diet, which are still widely unknown.
 
Im not dissin or doggin' but a balance is optimal for longevity. Results are hard to argue with but they are not worth depriving yourself of essential carbs needed and causing a long-term issue.
 
The goal for me is to be overall healthy. There is a fine line between risk and reward.
 
The CNS will exclusively use carbs. They are the source of energy for our brains and for our bodies(PNS). You can't expect to mess with the chemistry of how our bodies are wired and think nothing bad will come out of it.
 
Like I said im not knocking anybody, b/c to each his own. But this is just my two cents.
 


that thread was deleted for a reason my friend.

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:14 AM ( #307 )
I rarely ask questions, but I just started keto yesterday and I have two!


30g of dextrose in my post workout shake with whey? Fitnessman said he recommended it to anyone.


Second is, when should my first carb up day be after just starting? I've heard I should wait two weeks, I've heard that I should just do it after my 6th day.. not sure what to do, other than that I think I got the basic understanding down.


Thanks!
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 10:15 AM ( #308 )
RS,
Which thread you talkin about? I haven't been around. Just readin here and there. School this year is killa.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:16 AM ( #309 )
footballcraze


I rarely ask questions, but I just started keto yesterday and I have two!


30g of dextrose in my post workout shake with whey? Fitnessman said he recommended it to anyone.


Second is, when should my first carb up day be after just starting? I've heard I should wait two weeks, I've heard that I should just do it after my 6th day.. not sure what to do, other than that I think I got the basic understanding down.


Thanks!


Ive never used post-workout carbs and following the ckd correctly, you dont eat postworkout carbs.

Id wait longer than a week.  If not you might have to deal with the sluggish keto transition the first and second no carb phase.  If you wait two weeks, youll surely be fully in ketosis and ready for your first carb load. 

10-12 days actually is what I would do.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:19 AM ( #310 )
IwillMakeIt


RS,
Which thread you talkin about? I haven't been around. Just readin here and there. School this year is killa.


there was a big debate on the safety of keto and it got deleted i guess.

sorry.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:51 AM ( #311 )
Alright 2 weeks it is, sounds kinda scary lol. I've read 2 weeks is the best after just starting anyway, just had to make sure.


Thanks RS.


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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:08 PM ( #312 )
Actually, I have one more question.

I'm allergic to almonds, so what other nut could I eat instead for easy fats?


I used to love almonds and I still do, I just can't eat them. :(
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:24 PM ( #313 )
RollingStone


Reset


I go back up to college in like a week and it's going to be VERY hard not to drink during the week (the weekends are a given)..  Doesn't alcohol set ketosis back a bit (it doesn't reset it, like cheating though, right?)?  I will make friday night my depletion work out, drink friday night and saturday night for sure, but as far as drinking on weekdays, how much will it set me back?  I also assume the best way to drink would be shots with diet soda?.. that would be no carbs (or close to it).  Beer would probably be the worst as far as carbs go.


Dont drink on the carb up lol how many times does that need repeated.  Drink any other time.  If youre gonna drink on the weekends, then do your carb load during the week.

And the best way to drink is no chaser, chug vodka from the bottle.  Stop being a vagina.



Thats actually what I did for a week when my sister was visiting from cali. I was just drinking vodka out of the bottle with no chaser lol. Water + vodka = win.

No drinking for a while though, don't want to be counter productive with this new keto plan.

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:49 PM ( #314 )
RollingStone


IwillMakeIt


JMBS


Twisted,
  Am I right that the keto diet fails the "Don't F with Mother Nature" test?  Of course the typical American diet (don't know about yours over there) fails that test miserably as well.


Yea, where is twisty nowadays? He knows alot about why not to do keto.

My thoughts on keto: It causes your body to be funtioning in overdrive at all times. To turn fat into glucose is something the body is capeble of but as a last resort.

It deprives you of essential nutrients. Even if you take a vitamin, it will not replace the fruits and veggies you're missing.

Im not saying it's bad but you change the chemical hormones inside your body to make the process of ketosis kick in.

I know there are results and that is one thing as bodybuilders we will not compromise.

It is great for a short term. Like a spring-summer cut but to think that your body can funtion for a life time on eggs, chesses and other fats is stretching the use of this "special" diet.

However, there are some people such as diabetics that will use this diet through-out but that is b/c there is already some hormonal imbalance in their body and keto maybe a fix. But even then it is not safe to say these people are exempt from the long term effects of this diet, which are still widely unknown.

Im not dissin or doggin' but a balance is optimal for longevity. Results are hard to argue with but they are not worth depriving yourself of essential carbs needed and causing a long-term issue.

The goal for me is to be overall healthy. There is a fine line between risk and reward.

The CNS will exclusively use carbs. They are the source of energy for our brains and for our bodies(PNS). You can't expect to mess with the chemistry of how our bodies are wired and think nothing bad will come out of it.

Like I said im not knocking anybody, b/c to each his own. But this is just my two cents.



that thread was deleted for a reason my friend.


Was there a legitimate reason, or did someone just make one up out of thin air, like all the non peer-reviewed studies used to justify keto?

I've seen selective posts deleted, but never an entire thread -especially when it presented a contrary view of an active discussion.  If someone here is deleting posts because they can't take being disagreed with, that is unacceptable and immature.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:52 PM ( #315 )
Yeah, why did it get deleted anyway?
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:31 PM ( #316 )
I don't know for sure but i'm fine with it. Everything in life has a little risk with it nowadays and i think people are getting out of hand.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:37 PM ( #317 )
Hate to break it to you guys, but it may be more harsh than you think:  Try to find any post by Link!  He just went POOF!
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:08 PM ( #318 )
It was a retarded thread anyway.  Loaded with emotions and insults pretty much from the start.  Not to mention it was ultimately void of any compelling evidence that keto is unhealthy in either the short or long term.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:14 PM ( #319 )
Snatchula,
   Sometimes you have to separate the wheat from the chaff in life.  Know what I'm saying?  I learned a lot from the thread, even if I did have to pull teeth to get the answers I was after.  I still have more to say and ask on the subject, but am afraid to at this point, in case my comments/questions/curiosity might offend someone.  Not a banner day for public discourse, imo.  :(
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:24 PM ( #320 )
JMBS


Snatchula,
   Sometimes you have to separate the wheat from the chaff in life.  Know what I'm saying?  I learned a lot from the thread, even if I did have to pull teeth to get the answers I was after.  I still have more to say and ask on the subject, but am afraid to at this point, in case my comments/questions/curiosity might offend someone.  Not a banner day for public discourse, imo.  :(

Just start a new post with a positive attitude and hope that it'll be maintaned throughout the thread.

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:30 PM ( #321 )
That's what I love about this forum.  Everything is "retarded" unless it compliments the ideology you've already hitched your wagon to.

I said in that thread that no amount of peer-reviewed science or clinical studies would be sufficient to sway you, and you just proved me right.  I gave you extracts from no less than five compelling, peer-reviewed, rigorous scientific bodies with more academic credibility than any of the studies I've seen presented in favor of keto, and you blew them off because they flagrantly refute everything you hold precious in this debate.

As with anything in life, I will gladly update my understanding of something when the science supports updating it, but you're asking a bit much for me to throw out decades of conventional wisdom for a fad.

Atkins was proven wrong -his theories are a laughing stock today, and keto will suffer the same demise in due course, because it's based on flimsy interpretations and over-eager extrapolations that fall apart under scrutiny.

But it's hip and sexy and trendy, and that's what seems to pass for knowledge around here, so knock yourself out.

And J, I think it goes without saying that if you're on eggshells about your contribution, then the terrorists have won.  Seriously.  The name of site is DISCUSS Bodybuilding.  If you all want to stymie the variety of the discourse and turn it into a Mark Rippetoe/keto circle-jerk session, I'll be handing in my credentials.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:35 PM ( #322 )
Snatchula, I will do that, tomorrow (set up a new thread).  And I don't know whether the "positive attitude" statement was directed at me personally.  If it was, I wish the thread were still available so you could point out where my attitude was negative.  I tried with great effort to understand the keto diet, its attractiveness, its methodology and biochemistry, and effects (both beneficial and adverse) on the human systems.  I always maintained an open mind.  I simply wanted answers as opposed to opinions.  The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of science research on the keto (including carb up) diet.  In my opinion, there is often a willingness among members of all sports and life in general, to sacrifice safety for quick results.  That was the thrust of my argument.  And as I stated in that thread, the sole impetus behind ANYTHING I said was curiosity and the safety of the people using this (imo) extreme diet.

I will try to post my lingering comments and questions in a new thread tomorrow.
<message edited by JMBS on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:15 PM>
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:42 PM ( #323 )
Perry why did you thread get deleted? The one about the girl?
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:45 PM ( #324 )
I don't know MVP. I guess it got too "raunchy" and broke the rules.
<message edited by Perrynaytor on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:47 PM>
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:23 PM ( #325 )
veggeep


That's what I love about this forum.  Everything is "retarded" unless it compliments the ideology you've already hitched your wagon to.

I said in that thread that no amount of peer-reviewed science or clinical studies would be sufficient to sway you, and you just proved me right.  I gave you extracts from no less than five compelling, peer-reviewed, rigorous scientific bodies with more academic credibility than any of the studies I've seen presented in favor of keto, and you blew them off because they flagrantly refute everything you hold precious in this debate.

As with anything in life, I will gladly update my understanding of something when the science supports updating it, but you're asking a bit much for me to throw out decades of conventional wisdom for a fad.

Atkins was proven wrong -his theories are a laughing stock today, and keto will suffer the same demise in due course, because it's based on flimsy interpretations and over-eager extrapolations that fall apart under scrutiny.

But it's hip and sexy and trendy, and that's what seems to pass for knowledge around here, so knock yourself out.

And J, I think it goes without saying that if you're on eggshells about your contribution, then the terrorists have won.  Seriously.  The name of site is DISCUSS Bodybuilding.  If you all want to stymie the variety of the discourse and turn it into a Mark Rippetoe/keto circle-jerk session, I'll be handing in my credentials.

 
I definently have to agree with that even though i noticed great results from keto. Seems that people are too one sided in their theories here and stick to them without explanation sometimes. I myself like to go around and try different stuff and come up with my own results at the least.

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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 8:42 PM ( #326 )
wtf?  internet issues, i didn't know this post had gotten through.  apologies for the double-post.

slightly edited version below.
<message edited by snatchula on Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:14 PM>
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Re:why you should be on keto - Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:11 PM ( #327 )
JMBS, that was merely a suggestion and was not intended to be personal.  

Vegg, you're making a lot of wild assumptions about what I think.  I have no attachment to keto and actually quite disliked being on it.  I love carbs maybe as much as you do.  I just haven't been presented with any proof that a keto diet has to be unhealthy.  I had intended to look through the thread once more to make sure I hadn't missed anything important, but by the time I got around to it the thread had been deleted.  So as for this supposedly compelling and credible evidence that apparently I missed (which isn't exacly unlikely considering all the garbage posts in that thread), feel free to present it again in JMBS' upcoming post, and I'll read it with an open mind, as I always do.  But you might consider keeping your childish, inflammatory rants to yourself, or that thread might disappear as well.
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Re:why you should be on keto - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 4:44 AM ( #328 )
Snatchula,
   Thank you!  I'll try to start a new thread today.  I may couch it in a broader discussion that might be more useful to the whole forum:  Something like successful cutting or bulking diets.  What different people have tried.  What works.  What does and does not have safety and effectiveness research backing it up.  This is such an important topic for us. 
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Re:why you should be on keto - Wednesday, September 02, 2009 5:47 AM ( #329 )
edit:  I moved my post to a new thread so I would stop jacking RS's thread.
<message edited by JMBS on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:08 AM>
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Re:why you should be on keto - Friday, September 04, 2009 9:39 PM ( #330 )
Are you guys still interested in a keto bulk? I am not completely against keto, and I still want to at least try this.
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