why you should be on keto

RollingStone

thehardway


I get where your coming from, but insinuating you can not have an excellent body, and good to great performance, unless your perfect 100% of the time is misleading and quite discouraging to new enthusiasts...

And if you ask me you do not eat well.. It might work for you... it might be the most optimal for your appearance... hell you might even perform best eating this way, your constant lack of carbs, and carb loading/ manipulation 9and you carefully track your body and performance, so I am sure it is optimal for you, at least right now)... But I wouldn't consider that eating good, well, or healthy...

but, I am going to pull out the old lady card on this one... You are very young, I would love to hear your perspective in 5 years... your what 19, your freshman year of college this year?

You dont consider it healthy but thats just because it doesnt follow the regular guidelines of a healthy diet.  Tha fact is though, that you dont have much to back up what youre saying and studies are showing that keto diets are actually improving bloodwork.  (I have studies if you need them)

Other issues seem to be vitamin deficiencies and acidicity (if thats a word) which is helped by eating alot of green vegetables and I would advise fruit in the carb load. 

But who doesnt have vitamin deficiencies?  No one eats enough vegetables.  Very few actually.  I can take a supplement of potassium, calcium, and magnesium and its just as good as vitamins in the enriched flours that high carb people are eating.

I want to see the studies... not on cholesterol.... I am not fat phobic, I understand the the relationship between a nice lipid profile and the consumption of good fats... a higher than the FDA recommended guidelines, fat intake... I choose moderate carbs as usual practice, because our diet is way too rich in carbs, especially refined, and enriched, that is not what I am talking about... I want to see long term studies.... 10- 20 years, on the liver, the pancreous, the bowls, brain function, from a large groupe of people who keep their body in a near constant state of Ketosis, for a signifiacant numbr of years.

The only populations of people who have evolved with that type of diet, are Inuit/Eskimo, some Mongoloids (Crap they don't call themselves that any more, PC police help?), and some Scandinavian  cultures (I might have missed a couple, but not many).  .. Every other poulation of Human animals have for thousands of years were hunter gatherers... (my list... well nothing really grows to gather there most of the year). I can even understand the feast and fammon cycles of this diet to a degree... it is almost the natural way humans eveolved to eat...It comes down to this, you'll call it conventional thinking with out studies to back it up, but anytime I have to turn down a piece of Zuchinin or a carrot becasue it's "bad", well there is something wrong with the classification of bad.... human animals eat carbohydrates, and need too in moderation (not what is common, or FDA reccomended, but some consumption)... shutting down your insulin production indefinately is not good... show me the study that says it is... 

 Refined carbs... proccessed carbs no... I'll even take it one further carbs that need to be cooked... potatoes and the like... maybe a bit dodgey... but there are a host of trace minerals, vitamines, nutriets, acids, fiber, chlorophyl... yes you can suppliment, but why extract nutrients out of food when you can eat it and put your body systems through the processes they are designed for, and have evolved to do.

Maybe I just consistently read you wrong.... Seriously post or PM me the studies... It is not that I am so Anti-Keto... I read up on it quite a bit before I decided to give it a whrol, for a short term fat reduction, because that is what it is exteemly good for... but as a permamnent way of life... Let me see the studies, LONG TERM studies, about the body as a whole... not testosterone production, NOT LIPID profiles.. I am sure they are out there seeing as this was started as a treatment for epilepsy....many years ago.

MMA so you've given up on modeling?

Oh, THANKS Creation and Perry, for your input... I forgot to thank you guys!

thehardway

RollingStone

thehardway


I get where your coming from, but insinuating you can not have an excellent body, and good to great performance, unless your perfect 100% of the time is misleading and quite discouraging to new enthusiasts...

And if you ask me you do not eat well.. It might work for you... it might be the most optimal for your appearance... hell you might even perform best eating this way, your constant lack of carbs, and carb loading/ manipulation 9and you carefully track your body and performance, so I am sure it is optimal for you, at least right now)... But I wouldn't consider that eating good, well, or healthy...

but, I am going to pull out the old lady card on this one... You are very young, I would love to hear your perspective in 5 years... your what 19, your freshman year of college this year?

You dont consider it healthy but thats just because it doesnt follow the regular guidelines of a healthy diet.  Tha fact is though, that you dont have much to back up what youre saying and studies are showing that keto diets are actually improving bloodwork.  (I have studies if you need them)

Other issues seem to be vitamin deficiencies and acidicity (if thats a word) which is helped by eating alot of green vegetables and I would advise fruit in the carb load. 

But who doesnt have vitamin deficiencies?  No one eats enough vegetables.  Very few actually.  I can take a supplement of potassium, calcium, and magnesium and its just as good as vitamins in the enriched flours that high carb people are eating.

I want to see the studies... not on cholesterol.... I am not fat phobic, I understand the the relationship between a nice lipid profile and the consumption of good fats... a higher than the FDA recommended guidelines, fat intake... I choose moderate carbs as usual practice, because our diet is way too rich in carbs, especially refined, and enriched, that is not what I am talking about... I want to see long term studies.... 10- 20 years, on the liver, the pancreous, the bowls, brain function, from a large groupe of people who keep their body in a near constant state of Ketosis, for a signifiacant numbr of years.

The only populations of people who have evolved with that type of diet, are Inuit/Eskimo, some Mongoloids (Crap they don't call themselves that any more, PC police help?), and some Scandinavian  cultures (I might have missed a couple, but not many).  .. Every other poulation of Human animals have for thousands of years were hunter gatherers... (my list... well nothing really grows to gather there most of the year). I can even understand the feast and fammon cycles of this diet to a degree... it is almost the natural way humans eveolved to eat...It comes down to this, you'll call it conventional thinking with out studies to back it up, but anytime I have to turn down a piece of Zuchinin or a carrot becasue it's "bad", well there is something wrong with the classification of bad.... human animals eat carbohydrates, and need too in moderation (not what is common, or FDA reccomended, but some consumption)... shutting down your insulin production indefinately is not good... show me the study that says it is... 

Refined carbs... proccessed carbs no... I'll even take it one further carbs that need to be cooked... potatoes and the like... maybe a bit dodgey... but there are a host of trace minerals, vitamines, nutriets, acids, fiber, chlorophyl... yes you can suppliment, but why extract nutrients out of food when you can eat it and put your body systems through the processes they are designed for, and have evolved to do.

Maybe I just consistently read you wrong.... Seriously post or PM me the studies... It is not that I am so Anti-Keto... I read up on it quite a bit before I decided to give it a whrol, for a short term fat reduction, because that is what it is exteemly good for... but as a permamnent way of life... Let me see the studies, LONG TERM studies, about the body as a whole... not testosterone production, NOT LIPID profiles.. I am sure they are out there seeing as this was started as a treatment for epilepsy....many years ago.

MMA so you've given up on modeling?

Oh, THANKS Creation and Perry, for your input... I forgot to thank you guys!

Well, Im not gonna try and sit here and defend a lifelong keto diet because I have no idea of the effects either, and since there are no studies done over such a long time period, Im not really sure Id like to take the chance either. 

The frequency at which I get dehyrdrated and have to constantly carry a bottle of water around cant be good right there.

I dont even really have a side in this argument because I have no idea whether the diet can cause certain problems long term.

I havent given up modelling.  Im not completely sure what I want to do.  When I started lifting I just wanted to be big and ripped and look good but now I have it and I been training more for general athleticism and kinda wanna do something with it.  I wish I was playing another year of football now...

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

The Paleo diet is very similar to keto, only there are no carb ups because you eat fruit.

It's basically:

Lean meat
Fruit
Vegetables

CrossFit people use it. I have the dehydration problem also. I wouldn't know where to set calories to burn fat and gain muscle, though. I am thinking the same as keto. Maintainence 3 days, deficit 2 days, surplus 2 days.

Perrynaytor


The Paleo diet is very similar to keto, only there are no carb ups because you eat fruit.

It's basically:

Lean meat
Fruit
Vegetables

CrossFit people use it. I have the dehydration problem also. I wouldn't know where to set calories to burn fat and gain muscle, though. I am thinking the same as keto. Maintainence 3 days, deficit 2 days, surplus 2 days.

Idk nothing about the paleo diet, but I was thinking of doing something like this with no starches and just eat fruits for carbs.  Not too many, just a little pre and post workout, maybe in the morning. 

Whatever I do though, Im never going back to high carb.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

http://www.direct-ms.or...leolithic_nutrition.html

I've been reading up on this and I was going to start a thread asking about this, but I guess this will do.


Does anyone have experience with it, or know anything else about it? Or even have a couple good links?

Red PittBull's Log.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-diet.html

this is where I have learned most about it. I am about to cycle over to it soon.

yeah, that's all I was saying Rolling....the long term, because I couldn't find anything either,

I hear you about the dehydration, no matter how much water I drink I can't get enough, ever.... Saturday night my Sartorius cramped up, as I was falling asleep... When I say it cramped... I went to rock.... and I screamed loud enough that I was concerned the neighbors would call the police... it lasted for three minutes, at least... 5 times, I though it had subsided, moved a 1/4 of an inch and it would freeze again, and i went back to literally screaming...

I asked about the modeling, because if your really gonna bring it to fighting... well.... you ain't gonna be pretty no more (if your gonna fight serously, and not just train in MMA..). If you don't know what I just referanced.. watch Raging Bull. (Not trying to piss you off with the pretty comment)

thehardway


yeah, that's all I was saying Rolling....the long term, because I couldn't find anything either,

I hear you about the dehydration, no matter how much water I drink I can't get enough, ever.... Saturday night my Sartorius cramped up, as I was falling asleep... When I say it cramped... I went to rock.... and I screamed loud enough that I was concerned the neighbors would call the police... it lasted for three minutes, at least... 5 times, I though it had subsided, moved a 1/4 of an inch and it would freeze again, and i went back to literally screaming...

I asked about the modeling, because if your really gonna bring it to fighting... well.... you ain't gonna be pretty no more (if your gonna fight serously, and not just train in MMA..). If you don't know what I just referanced.. watch Raging Bull. (Not trying to piss you off with the pretty comment)

Yeah, I know tha two wouldnt work too well together.  I just dont really know what Im gonna do yet.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

I dont see why keto couldnt be done long term granted that you DO have the right carbs on your carb up period. Just use the carb up to have all your nutritious fruits and grains every two weeks. This, however, is something that I always plan to do but never do. I usually just have a bunch of sweet cereals with milk, then a bunch of pasta or fat free chips, and like twix bars thrown into some oatmeal.

dtes


I dont see why keto couldnt be done long term granted that you DO have the right carbs on your carb up period. Just use the carb up to have all your nutritious fruits and grains every two weeks. This, however, is something that I always plan to do but never do. I usually just have a bunch of sweet cereals with milk, then a bunch of pasta or fat free chips, and like twix bars thrown into some oatmeal.

The only two things that seem unhealthy to me is how quick you dehyrdrate if you dont eat or drink for too long and like hardway mentioned, the muscle cramps.  I find I cramp up alot easier.  When I wake up in the morning I always yawn and stretch my whole body out.  My back cramps up a little bit now when I do it.  Not an all out cramp but it just starts to tighten and I have to stretch it out.  Idk, that doesnt seem good.  I started supplementing magnesium, calcium, and potassium when this was happening and i think it helped a little but I still get them.

My guess is its not caused by vitamin deficiencies just lack of water.  The diet is naturally diuretic, you can see how much more ripped youll look on this diet than a higher carb diet.  Even at the same bf%, someone on keto looks leaner.  I think since I dont drink any water all night I wake up pretty dehyrdrated.  I always have horrible cotton mouth too in the morning. 

Yeah.  water seems to be the problem.  I carry a liter water bottle everywhere I go these days.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

You guys don't think that weekly roller coaster over a very long period might have some unforeseen ramifications?  I understand that it works for you guys but that seems like some pretty serious tinkering to be doing for that long.  How long has this diet been around?  I think you said there are no long term studies of it but do you have at least anecdotal reports of people who have been on it for a long time?

What are the big weekly swings again?  Insulin, ketones?  Sorry don't recall.

JMBS


You guys don't think that weekly roller coaster over a very long period might have some unforeseen ramifications?  I understand that it works for you guys but that seems like some pretty serious tinkering to be doing for that long.  How long has this diet been around?  I think you said there are no long term studies of it but do you have at least anecdotal reports of people who have been on it for a long time?

What are the big weekly swings again?  Insulin, ketones?  Sorry don't recall.

What were saying is we dont know.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

This from a site regarding using the keto diet with those suffering from epilepsy:

Furthermore, the diet appears to maintain its efficacy in humans when provided continuously for several years

That implies to me that it must be safe for at least a years-long time frame.  Or else the benefits for epileptics outweigh any negative effects.

JMBS


This from a site regarding using the keto diet with those suffering from epilepsy:

Furthermore, the diet appears to maintain its efficacy in humans when provided continuously for several years

That implies to me that it must be safe for at least a years-long time frame.  Or else the benefits for epileptics outweigh any negative effects.

I think that just means people with epilepsy wont adapt to the diet and start seeing problems again.

Youll find sites that say many different things about the diet, but you cant just swallow up everything you read.  ^Not saying that information is bad.  I dont think anyone has the answer right now.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RS,
   No I understood what the sentence was saying.  But reading between the lines, they wouldn't have let those people continue with the diet if at least obvious problems occurred with continual use over the years-long time period.  That's the point I was trying to make.  Sounds like this diet or similar diets have been around for a while, so perhaps there is long-term info somewhere.

JMBS


RS,
   No I understood what the sentence was saying.  But reading between the lines, they wouldn't have let those people continue with the diet if at least obvious problems occurred with continual use over the years-long time period.  That's the point I was trying to make.  Sounds like this diet or similar diets have been around for a while, so perhaps there is long-term info somewhere.

Try shooting Smoundzou a PM. I think he was talking about some sorts of long term studies earlier.

Red PittBull's Log.

Well, gout may be a concern. Ive brought this up before.

I can't remember what people eat for keto around here.

Anybody else just eating a bunch of eggs, cheese and mayo?

Perrynaytor


I can't remember what people eat for keto around here.

Anybody else just eating a bunch of eggs, cheese and mayo?

I probably got most of my calories from 70% lean ground beef, followed closely by eggs.

Apparently eggs make you stronger. I have broken like so many PRs in the past week it is unreal, I still have to squat and rack pull tomorrow.

Anybody who gets weaker on keto, just up your calories. I am getting stronger, leaner, and staying roughly in the 190lb area. This is amazing once you do it correctly.

I read that hormone article RS posted. I am wondering if anyone would be interested in a modified CKD bulk to run along side with me?

Perrynaytor


I read that hormone article RS posted. I am wondering if anyone would be interested in a modified CKD bulk to run along side with me?

im starting my keto bulk in about a week. i have been on keto for about four months now and have gotten down to about 6 or 7 percent and im ready to bulk again. but i love CKD too much too stop. so i figured why the hell? i will give this a shot in a surplus. im planning on using a 36-48 hour carb up (cut off when im starting to smooth out)

plus this diet will be a lot easier at school, and i think that too many people believe that a high carb diet is the only way to put on mass, i want to show them that's not true

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

Daniel265

Perrynaytor


I read that hormone article RS posted. I am wondering if anyone would be interested in a modified CKD bulk to run along side with me?

im starting my keto bulk in about a week. i have been on keto for about four months now and have gotten down to about 6 or 7 percent and im ready to bulk again. but i love CKD too much too stop. so i figured why the hell? i will give this a shot in a surplus. im planning on using a 36-48 hour carb up (cut off when im starting to smooth out)

plus this diet will be a lot easier at school, and i think that too many people believe that a high carb diet is the only way to put on mass, i want to show them that's not true

I might run it with you guys.  The diet seems to make for better hormone production.  Im going up to school as a freshmen this friday and I need to settle in and figure out how Im going to eat right first.

I wanna do it because I think I know I could make some real lean gains on it, and I feel better in general in ketosis regarding energy and mood.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

RollingStone

Daniel265

Perrynaytor


I read that hormone article RS posted. I am wondering if anyone would be interested in a modified CKD bulk to run along side with me?

im starting my keto bulk in about a week. i have been on keto for about four months now and have gotten down to about 6 or 7 percent and im ready to bulk again. but i love CKD too much too stop. so i figured why the hell? i will give this a shot in a surplus. im planning on using a 36-48 hour carb up (cut off when im starting to smooth out)

plus this diet will be a lot easier at school, and i think that too many people believe that a high carb diet is the only way to put on mass, i want to show them that's not true

I might run it with you guys.  The diet seems to make for better hormone production.  Im going up to school as a freshmen this friday and I need to settle in and figure out how Im going to eat right first.

I wanna do it because I think I know I could make some real lean gains on it, and I feel better in general in ketosis regarding energy and mood.

im going to be a sophmore in college and i wish i would have done CKD during my first year. when i first showed up at school i was really shocked at the overall nutritional quality of the food. i go to a d1 school and there is plenty of food but there is not a ton of whole unprocessed foods and it was really really tough finding things to eat day in and day out.

since im going to be doing keto it will be a lot easier. omelet bar in the morning plenty of tuna with mayo is available to me as well as greens and any other fat source i could imagine.

i love this shxt to much too stop. and as RS mentioned there are tons of hormonal advantages and lean gains which is a priority to me

Current: 19, 5'11", 190@7%

bench:305 squat:370(atg) deadlift:475
Goals: 4plate squat, 5plate dead

"obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated"

I'll start next week with you guys then. We could just update here. I have to also get settled in to school, and I really don't know what to expect.

I started the keto a couple weeks ago and love it, I'm losing fat but still have energy for my workouts and don't feel exhausted and cranky all day.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


I started the keto a couple weeks ago and love it, I'm losing fat but still have energy for my workouts and don't feel exhausted and cranky all day.

Thats exactly how I felt; better mood, more energy.  Now Im afraid to ever switch back to moderate-high carbs.


On a side note, I stopped taking all the ephedrine that I was taking and my muscle cramps subsided.  Then I read that ephedrine can cause muscle cramps...Maybe it wasnt the keto afterall.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

were you still taking potassium  when you started getting cramps RS?

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

Twisted,
   Am I right that the keto diet fails the "Don't F with Mother Nature" test?  Of course the typical American diet (don't know about yours over there) fails that test miserably as well.

I go back up to college in like a week and it's going to be VERY hard not to drink during the week (the weekends are a given)..  Doesn't alcohol set ketosis back a bit (it doesn't reset it, like cheating though, right?)?  I will make friday night my depletion work out, drink friday night and saturday night for sure, but as far as drinking on weekdays, how much will it set me back?  I also assume the best way to drink would be shots with diet soda?.. that would be no carbs (or close to it).  Beer would probably be the worst as far as carbs go.

Age: 19
Height: 6'3
Weight: ~255