what should i do

hey i have questions about if i should start using or not well i been lifting scence i was 15 im now 23 im 6ft 270 not shore bout body fat but i have abs so cant be that much well i have hit a peek in my bench that i cant get over even switched up rutien to try to over come it but cant

flat 420ilbs
incline 315
decline 450

so im not that bad but i do wana go the next level i just wana no what should i do should i use steriods like a deca sus 250 mix or what i would like to here from people with some experience with steriods

You can't really ask whether you should start a cycle of anything. It's up to you and whether you feel you are ready to take that step, I'd only do it if I was certain it was what I wanted to do and I couldn't get much further without.

V,
    You're the Clipart Photoshop GOD!

 

Let me ask you guys:  Why the necessity to reach genetic potential before running a cycle?  What do they do, and I'm sure many do this, if you start taking them early in your lifting career, young or old?

Personal opinion... No one 23 years old has reached a natural peak and shouldn't even consider using steroids.  Go to the ask the expert section and read some of Dan's posts on progression of training and nutrition..

It's not going to be the easiest route but gains are there to be had... If you're still cosistently training in 8 or 9 years.. consider steroids if you're not happy with your size and strength.

 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

Smoundzou,
   What's the downside to running cycles before the natural peak, or even right out of the gate?

JMBS


Let me ask you guys:  Why the necessity to reach genetic potential before running a cycle?  What do they do, and I'm sure many do this, if you start taking them early in your lifting career, young or old?

I'll give you my reasoning..
1: bottom line.. Steroids are illegal so with that said, there is absolutely no 100% safe way to get them.  Half the stuff sold over the net is manufactured and not even meant for human use.  The other 50% has a high risk of being fake or simply non-steril.
 
2: Any type of anabolic steroid is potentially dangerous.. with them being illegal there is no way to monitor the effects they are having on your body 100%. 
 
3: With the given risks there are using steroids, what's the point in taking those risks until you absolutely have to?  As you mature the gains are going to come slower, but steorids aren't the magic solution everything seems to think they are. 
 
4: Unless you plan on having a pro BBing career or perhaps have some serious obsession with power lifting and plan on making your living by doing so, or have reached a point in your life where due to age, test levels and dwindleing away..  why take them?  Just to add an inch to your bicep or an extra 50lbs to a lift.. I think not..
 
those are my reasons.. i'm sure there are plenty of others..
 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

smoundzou

JMBS


Let me ask you guys:  Why the necessity to reach genetic potential before running a cycle?  What do they do, and I'm sure many do this, if you start taking them early in your lifting career, young or old?

I'll give you my reasoning..
1: bottom line.. Steroids are illegal so with that said, there is absolutely no 100% safe way to get them.  Half the stuff sold over the net is manufactured and not even meant for human use.  The other 50% has a high risk of being fake or simply non-steril.
 
2: Any type of anabolic steroid is potentially dangerous.. with them being illegal there is no way to monitor the effects they are having on your body 100%. 
 
3: With the given risks there are using steroids, what's the point in taking those risks until you absolutely have to?  As you mature the gains are going to come slower, but steorids aren't the magic solution everything seems to think they are. 
 
4: Unless you plan on having a pro BBing career or perhaps have some serious obsession with power lifting and plan on making your living by doing so, or have reached a point in your life where due to age, test levels and dwindleing away..  why take them?  Just to add an inch to your bicep or an extra 50lbs to a lift.. I think not..
 
those are my reasons.. i'm sure there are plenty of others..
 

Bingo! We're on the same page.

Id highly recommend you do some research getting info from internet boards usually isnt the best idea

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

Creation


Id highly recommend you do some research getting info from internet boards usually isnt the best idea

The above comment is about the best advice anyone could give you...

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

smoundzou


Personal opinion... No one 23 years old has reached a natural peak and shouldn't even consider using steroids.  Go to the ask the expert section and read some of Dan's posts on progression of training and nutrition..

It's not going to be the easiest route but gains are there to be had... If you're still cosistently training in 8 or 9 years.. consider steroids if you're not happy with your size and strength.

 

smoundzou in your opinion what age does a person hit their geneitic peak?

well hormone wise its around 25 aka when testosterone peaks, but everyone peaks at a different age.

id say its pretty hard to tell you have hit your genetic potential cause there is so many variables you can change.

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

MoNey ShOt

smoundzou


Personal opinion... No one 23 years old has reached a natural peak and shouldn't even consider using steroids.  Go to the ask the expert section and read some of Dan's posts on progression of training and nutrition..

It's not going to be the easiest route but gains are there to be had... If you're still cosistently training in 8 or 9 years.. consider steroids if you're not happy with your size and strength.

 

smoundzou in your opinion what age does a person hit their geneitic peak?

Creation is right.. male test levels peak somewhere in the mid 20's.. but for most healthy males, test levels don't really start having a decline until they hit 40 or so.. This would mean a normal healthy male can continue to build muscle mass well into his 40's and even 50's - 60's.. when test levels do drop, they don't necessarily drop dramatically.. again this is all dependent upon health..
 
As far as reaching a natural peak.. I think if someone has continuouly worked out hard, from age 14-16 and with a good diet etc.. by the time they reach 30 or so it's going to be very difficult to have mass  and strength gains.. again now... this is assuming said person has trained solid and hard with a near pervfect diet.... But don't confuse what I just said with test levels.. Someone who has trained solid for 30 years can continue to add mass and strength because as we all know.. very few people maintain strict training and diet for very long.. even those of us who think we do.. Dan made a good post regarding nutritional progression... something that most people negelet to do or even thing about..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

competitive/professional sports

4: Unless you plan on having a pro BBing career or perhaps have some serious obsession with power lifting and plan on making your living by doing so, or have reached a point in your life where due to age, test levels and dwindleing away.. why take them? Just to add an inch to your bicep or an extra 50lbs to a lift.. I think not..

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


competitive/professional sports

4: Unless you plan on having a pro BBing career or perhaps have some serious obsession with power lifting and plan on making your living by doing so, or have reached a point in your life where due to age, test levels and dwindleing away.. why take them? Just to add an inch to your bicep or an extra 50lbs to a lift.. I think not..

LOl.. I should have thrown that in there...

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

That will probably end up what gets me to stray from the path...

other then that I dont think I ever would.

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Its all up to tho bro we arent gonna stop you just be smart if your gonna do it and please get checked by your dr often aka Before/during/after to make sure everything goes smoothly

YOU GOTTA EAT BIG, TO BE BIG!!

NASM certified trainer
NFPT certified trainer

Winter Bulk goal:245-250 by dec 31
Current weight: 235

I'm sorry, this is where I REALLY have a problem:  with sports (including BBing, lifting).  Should steroids be legal in sport or not?  It sounds like they are in widespread use in certain (especially professional) sports, so why not level the playing field and have everyone take them if it will help them?  Are they against the rules in football but those rules are never enforced?  Sport, realizing this would be utopia, is supposed to be about fair play, right?  Is the message to kids that it's okay as long as you don't get caught?

JMBS


I'm sorry, this is where I REALLY have a problem:  with sports (including BBing, lifting).  Should steroids be legal in sport or not?  It sounds like they are in widespread use in certain (especially professional) sports, so why not level the playing field and have everyone take them if it will help them?  Are they against the rules in football but those rules are never enforced?  Sport, realizing this would be utopia, is supposed to be about fair play, right?  Is the message to kids that it's okay as long as you don't get caught?

As far as I'm concerned, I think this is another huge misconception regarding steroid use and the making of a super athlete..
 
Honestly, do you guys really think that just because some MLB or NFL player does a few cycles of steroids and gains a few pounds of lean mass and increases his strength, that's what made him a great player?  Steroids were not responsible for Mark Mcguire being able to slam a 100mph fast ball into the stadium.. it was years and years of hard work, good coaching and natural talent for the game..
 
I just think this whole, steroids are the reason these guys are so great, has been taken completely too far..
 
What about all those other mediocre athletes that never make it to superstar status... Do you guys honestly think the only athletes using steroids are the superstars? 
 
I played b-ball and f-ball since I was 5 years old.. all through highschool....  But I was only mediocre and could have taken any and every steroid available and I still wouldn't have been good enough to be a pro...
 
 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

Smoundzou I love reading your posts.

It's just another misconception on steroids, people that fail to do research assuming that steroids did all the good work. Mark McGuire as an example, steroids don't make you a good baseball player, only practicing will do that. Steroids will not increase your swing or athletic ability to catch a ball, let Arnold or Milos become an outfielder for MLB.

Steroids are so misunderstood it is unreal.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

MVP


Smoundzou I love reading your posts.

It's just another misconception on steroids, people that fail to do research assuming that steroids did all the good work. Mark McGuire as an example, steroids don't make you a good baseball player, only practicing will do that. Steroids will not increase your swing or athletic ability to catch a ball, let Arnold or Milos become an outfielder for MLB.

Steroids are so misunderstood it is unreal.

Thanks MVP... I'm not going to try and pretend steroids, if used appropriately won't give an athlete an edge on partcicular aspects of some sports.. but seriously.. I loved playing sports and really wanted to be a pro some day but unfortunately, I didn't have the talent.. I walked on my first year of college and I think that was the deciding factor that made me realize.. wow.. I'm not as good as I think:(   Not even as good as some of the lower end collegiate level athletes that received scholorships.. much less a pro..
 
I just really dislike seeing talented athletes being robbed of their thunder as if steorids are 100% responsible for all the years of hard work that went into developing their talent..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

   It's hard for me to gain much of a foothold in this argument because I fear I know less than you guys.  But my gut is telling me, "Come on!  For as much as you guys complain about people thinking roids are some magic pill that allows one to skate into greatness, I think I have the right to complain about all you guys saying roids get a bum rap because you still have to put in the work."  Are you telling me McGuire would have gotten those HR numbers that quickly if he were clean?  What did that androstenedione do for him exactly?  Must have done something or else it would have been a waste of money and humiliation.  And if it did help him, then, in my opinion, he's a cheat.  I remember the conversation going on at the time that the guy had gotten huge very quickly.  That hugeness was making him stronger and more powerful was it not?  That would make the ball fly farther, no?  I think the story is many guys use and get an edge, and many don't because they fear getting caught, or (say it ain't so) they actually have a moral backbone (a la playing by the rules and respecting authority).
   I'm just saying if one person can take them, all should be allowed to if they want to.  I HATE CHEATING!
   Yes, you have to put in the work.  All of those guys that get to that level bust their humps.
   So should they be allowed in sport or not?

JMBS


   It's hard for me to gain much of a foothold in this argument because I fear I know less than you guys.  But my gut is telling me, "Come on!  For as much as you guys complain about people thinking roids are some magic pill that allows one to skate into greatness, I think I have the right to complain about all you guys saying roids get a bum rap because you still have to put in the work."  Are you telling me McGuire would have gotten those HR numbers that quickly if he were clean?  What did that androstenedione do for him exactly?  Must have done something or else it would have been a waste of money and humiliation.  And if it did help him, then, in my opinion, he's a cheat.  I remember the conversation going on at the time that the guy had gotten huge very quickly.  That hugeness was making him stronger and more powerful was it not?  That would make the ball fly farther, no?  I think the story is many guys use and get an edge, and many don't because they fear getting caught, or (say it ain't so) they actually have a moral backbone (a la playing by the rules and respecting authority).
   I'm just saying if one person can take them, all should be allowed to if they want to.  I HATE CHEATING!
   Yes, you have to put in the work.  All of those guys that get to that level bust their humps.
   So should they be allowed in sport or not?

JMBS.. you have the right to have any opinion you want regarding steroid use and sports.. As far as how did steroids help him?   well I'm sure they did make him stronger, but I don't think they were the deciding factor that enabled him to hit a ball into the stadium.. many 18 year old 165lbs HS players have the strength to hit a ball into the stands.. it's the skill of actually hitting a ball that's being thrown by a skilled pitcher they lack.. not the power..
 
It's all about the money.. even if they were legal it would still be about the money.. a team owner can't force a great player to take steroids.. and as you mentioned.. not everyone is willing to risk taking them.. If if they were legal.. so it would always be a problem regardless..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I don't want to get on your bad side for beating the thing to death.  I have so many issues with the whole sports machine from little league on up.  For me, sport is about teamwork, fair play, respect for authority and your rivals, and challenging the abilities of the body and mind.  Money and ego have a tendency to mess up all the potential good there is in such a worthwhile pursuit.

JMBS


I don't want to get on your bad side for beating the thing to death.  I have so many issues with the whole sports machine from little league on up.  For me, sport is about teamwork, fair play, respect for authority and your rivals, and challenging the abilities of the body and mind.  Money and ego have a tendency to mess up all the potential good there is in such a worthwhile pursuit.

this is a discussion forum.. if it weren't for people like you and people like me expressing our opinions, what would be the point of even being here.. I enjoy hearing other peoples opinions even if i don't agree with them 100%.. I'm a 47 year old fairly educated man..  But with that said, I've had 15 year old kids say things on this board that made me think.. hey??? I think he/she may have a good point..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

smoundzou

JMBS


I don't want to get on your bad side for beating the thing to death.  I have so many issues with the whole sports machine from little league on up.  For me, sport is about teamwork, fair play, respect for authority and your rivals, and challenging the abilities of the body and mind.  Money and ego have a tendency to mess up all the potential good there is in such a worthwhile pursuit.

this is a discussion forum.. if it weren't for people like you and people like me expressing our opinions, what would be the point of even being here.. I enjoy hearing other peoples opinions even if i don't agree with them 100%.. I'm a 47 year old fairly educated man..  But with that said, I've had 15 year old kids say things on this board that made me think.. hey??? I think he/she may have a good point..

Ditto all that!  Have a great weekend!  :)

This is where I disagree a bit.

I certainly believe that whatever he was on gave him the ability to hit what was it? 72? homeruns in a season.

Steroids didnt give him the hand eye coordination, or the talent...it gave him the power and stamina to be able to keep doing it over and over again. Its why guys just as talented and natural in baseball hit 40ish a season.

However I dont think baseball is a great example for steroid dominance. I think its more dominant in a more physical sport such as football or rugby, and when I say that im mostly talking about more physical positions. Positions that put a HUGE emphasis on strength.

In football I think they play a huge role. I 100% agree that steroids wont give someone natural talent, or improve genetics but it does improve size, strength and power, along with that comes mental superiority in a game where strength and power are huge factors.

Now for positions like quarterbacks, receivers, kickers, to a degree running backs its more skill then anything else. But the whole point of steroids is not to make the player, its to enhance the player or enhance what they already have.

and in a sport such as football, size is a lot. Steroids also help that. Size means you wont go down as easy, size means your harder to block, for the most part your just harder to deal with at any position. Even quarterbacks, look at the "bigger" ones. They are much harder for defensive players to run/take down.

Without going too much into it, I definitely agree that anyone taking steroids for sports in hopes it will make them a better player through skill is just delusional. But anyone taking it to increase size/strength/speed to enhance their athleticism to compliment their natural skill...thats going to be the deal breaker.

smoundzou

JMBS


I'm sorry, this is where I REALLY have a problem:  with sports (including BBing, lifting).  Should steroids be legal in sport or not?  It sounds like they are in widespread use in certain (especially professional) sports, so why not level the playing field and have everyone take them if it will help them?  Are they against the rules in football but those rules are never enforced?  Sport, realizing this would be utopia, is supposed to be about fair play, right?  Is the message to kids that it's okay as long as you don't get caught?

As far as I'm concerned, I think this is another huge misconception regarding steroid use and the making of a super athlete..
 
Honestly, do you guys really think that just because some MLB or NFL player does a few cycles of steroids and gains a few pounds of lean mass and increases his strength, that's what made him a great player?  Steroids were not responsible for Mark Mcguire being able to slam a 100mph fast ball into the stadium.. it was years and years of hard work, good coaching and natural talent for the game..
 
I just think this whole, steroids are the reason these guys are so great, has been taken completely too far..
 
What about all those other mediocre athletes that never make it to superstar status... Do you guys honestly think the only athletes using steroids are the superstars? 
 
I played b-ball and f-ball since I was 5 years old.. all through highschool....  But I was only mediocre and could have taken any and every steroid available and I still wouldn't have been good enough to be a pro...
 
 

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


This is where I disagree a bit.

I certainly believe that whatever he was on gave him the ability to hit what was it? 72? homeruns in a season.

Steroids didnt give him the hand eye coordination, or the talent...it gave him the power and stamina to be able to keep doing it over and over again. Its why guys just as talented and natural in baseball hit 40ish a season.

However I dont think baseball is a great example for steroid dominance. I think its more dominant in a more physical sport such as football or rugby, and when I say that im mostly talking about more physical positions. Positions that put a HUGE emphasis on strength.

In football I think they play a huge role. I 100% agree that steroids wont give someone natural talent, or improve genetics but it does improve size, strength and power, along with that comes mental superiority in a game where strength and power are huge factors.

Now for positions like quarterbacks, receivers, kickers, to a degree running backs its more skill then anything else. But the whole point of steroids is not to make the player, its to enhance the player or enhance what they already have.

and in a sport such as football, size is a lot. Steroids also help that. Size means you wont go down as easy, size means your harder to block, for the most part your just harder to deal with at any position. Even quarterbacks, look at the "bigger" ones. They are much harder for defensive players to run/take down.

Without going too much into it, I definitely agree that anyone taking steroids for sports in hopes it will make them a better player through skill is just delusional. But anyone taking it to increase size/strength/speed to enhance their athleticism to compliment their natural skill...thats going to be the deal breaker.

smoundzou

JMBS


I'm sorry, this is where I REALLY have a problem:  with sports (including BBing, lifting).  Should steroids be legal in sport or not?  It sounds like they are in widespread use in certain (especially professional) sports, so why not level the playing field and have everyone take them if it will help them?  Are they against the rules in football but those rules are never enforced?  Sport, realizing this would be utopia, is supposed to be about fair play, right?  Is the message to kids that it's okay as long as you don't get caught?

As far as I'm concerned, I think this is another huge misconception regarding steroid use and the making of a super athlete..

Honestly, do you guys really think that just because some MLB or NFL player does a few cycles of steroids and gains a few pounds of lean mass and increases his strength, that's what made him a great player?  Steroids were not responsible for Mark Mcguire being able to slam a 100mph fast ball into the stadium.. it was years and years of hard work, good coaching and natural talent for the game..

I just think this whole, steroids are the reason these guys are so great, has been taken completely too far..

What about all those other mediocre athletes that never make it to superstar status... Do you guys honestly think the only athletes using steroids are the superstars? 

I played b-ball and f-ball since I was 5 years old.. all through highschool....  But I was only mediocre and could have taken any and every steroid available and I still wouldn't have been good enough to be a pro...

N$,
   The way you describe is the way I envision it as well.  But it should be fair, right?  If one guy can help himself to steroids for the playing positions you mentioned, then all that play those positions should be able to.  A fair playing field is all I'm after.  Then it's up to the player whether they want to take the steroids with whatever consequences there may be.  But if one is taking them and getting away with it because there's no rule enforcement, then all should be allowed to take them without fear of punishment.
   I'm happy that in my dream sport of bodybuilding there are avenues (natural contests) that at least "try" to overcome the influence of drug on sport.  I believe the official line on NPC/IFBB contests is that steroids are not allowed but there's no testing so what's the point?  With natural contests I believe everyone is polygraphed and has to have character references, and there's probably random testing and perhaps mandatory testing for class winners.  I'm not sure but I like the valient attempt and effort to weed out drugs for those who wish to compete fairly w/o them.

The only way it will ever be a level playing field is if they legalize them. And I really dont see that happening any time soon.

As long as something is illegal people will always find ways around it, or to do it. Steroids, Marijuana, under age drinking etc...

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Off-topic, but McGuire hit 70 home runs and Bonds hit 73.

N$ you do have a good point, it may have influenced his strength so influencing his ability to hit 73. But I believe what smoundzou was saying is he was a good baseball player because of talent, not steroids. People are trying to completely discredit him due to steroids, without knowing that to hit 70 home runs in 1 season with or without them is a phenomenal accomplishment and he and others deserve respect.

ACE-CPT, NASM-CPT, AFPA-Nutrition Consultant 

In my opinion, if he was THAT talented and phenomenal he could have helped his reputation and avoided the cloud of suspicion over his perfomance had he stayed clean.