training each body part once a week vs. two
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 training each body part once a week vs. two

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David1991

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 7:19 AM
yea i would say were on the same page. in general i dont think it's best to work a muscle once a week unless your really advanced. i like 2x a week right now but i think even upto 5x a week is ok only if fatigue is managed correctly. Still though i've had good results working the muscle every 6-7 days, better with 6 though and that was with the very intensive methods i mentioned
twistedlink

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 7:34 AM
HST FTW!!
 
I workout every muscle 3x a week, adding mass on love-a-lee, but the intensity and volume isnt to my very max so im totally gone, i workout to around the 3/4 mark ish every other day.
 
My muscles feel slightly sore the next, and completely healed next training day.



bulkingup

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 7:36 AM
I understand what you guys are saying.
I just switched from a 4 day split(each bodypart exercised once per week)
to 2 ,3 day splits (each bodypart twice per week).
 
When doing a once per week routine...I do alot more sets (volume) and more intensity. I feel this is because I have more time to concentrate on each bodypart. But I never do more than 12-14 sets per bodypart.
 
My problem is...Here is my split:
day 1 chest biceps
day 2 back triceps
day 3 legs  shoulders/traps
Day 4 abs/calves/cardio
days 5-7 repeat days 1-3
 
shoulders come into play when exercising chest(day 1) and back (day 2) and of course shoulders on day 3...so am I giving my shoulders/traps enough rest...It seams as if my shoulders stay sore.
 
I know i'm not answering your question but I'd like your thoughs just the same.
 
Thanks
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smoundzou

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:00 AM
I first want to say I'm not implying that a person who does a Push, Pull , Leg or a 4-5 day body part split can't grow, get stronger and show progress.  In some cases with extreme hard gainers, PPL routines are a very effective way to train.
 
I rotated between 4-5 day body part splits for almost a decade training naturally and some years had good progress, other years.. little to no progress. Again, intensity you put in to the routine is important..
 
I fully understand that when doing single muscle routines, you're going to have bleed over to other muscles groups.. But I can honestly say, in all my years of training, I never, ever had a Monday afternoon pec workout that I wasn't fully recovered by Wednesday or Thursday of that week enough to destroy them again.
 
My questions is more less for those hardcore guys here who are passionate about the idea of only hitting a muscle 1 X's weekly to the point you're almost in need of hospitalization and allowing it to rest for 6 days and do nothing else other that the bleed over effect it might receive when working other muscle groups later that week.   As we all know, if you destroy your chest on Monday with various pushing movements, an overhead press which is primarily focusing on the delts and much lighter weight isn't going to be enough stimulation on the pecs compared to the previous pec workout to do any damage.. it might stimulate them some but other than that.. no progression is being made...
 
So please... someone, anyone offer up for solid, scientific, biological information as to why a muscle would need to rest a full 144 hours, (6 days) before being trained again.. what are the benefits.. and why??? Surely someone can jump in and give a rational answer to this questions.. especially those so passionately advocate this way of training to beginning and intermediate lifters...
 
There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 
David1991

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:04 AM
are we leaving steroids out of the picture with this?
smoundzou

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:16 AM
That would be a big yes... I can certainly understand the training methodology of someone on steroids.. Steroids enable them to push harder, eat more and train with far more intensity than a non-steroid using weight lifter..
 

ORIGINAL: David1991

are we leaving steroids out of the picture with this?

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 
smoundzou

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:10 AM
bump....
There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 
David1991

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:14 AM
i dont think theres really anyone on here like that. the only person who comes to mind that trains the muscle once a week exclusively is IBB and idk if thats the case actually
Nm0ney34

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:33 AM
Theres plenty of people on here that are like that, just read the posts...

this thread actually made me think of this t-nation article

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1388191

which trys to give pro's cons on split/full body...but I really think there cons for full body are pretty lame...it also seems like they are very biased towards splits.

For the record I very much agree with you smoundzou



ORIGINAL: David1991

i dont think theres really anyone on here like that. the only person who comes to mind that trains the muscle once a week exclusively is IBB and idk if thats the case actually

current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8
David1991

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:36 PM
a full body is just as easy to implement in that situation as a split, it wouldnt make any difference


ORIGINAL: Nm0ney34

Theres plenty of people on here that are like that, just read the posts...

this thread actually made me think of this t-nation article

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1388191

which trys to give pro's cons on split/full body...but I really think there cons for full body are pretty lame...it also seems like they are very biased towards splits.

For the record I very much agree with you smoundzou


yea ive seen that a few times too, i think its actually not biased at all and explains how both can work.
also just because its a split doesnt mean you can only work each muscle once a week
David1991

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:43 PM
From christian Thibaudeau.

i notice no 3-day splits

Strategy #4: High Volume/Low Frequency This is where most "regular" bodybuilding programs fall. Each muscle group is trained with a relatively high volume of work (12-20 sets per muscle group) but only once a week.
Sets are normally performed either in the total hypertrophy zone (8-12 reps) or functional hypertrophy zone (6-8 reps). Around 3-4 sets of 2 to 5 exercises per muscle group are used with this form of training: larger, more complex muscle groups (chest, back, quads) being trained with more exercises (4-5) than smaller muscle groups (shoulders, triceps, biceps, hamstrings, calves) which are trained with 2-3 exercises.
At least one multi-joint movement per muscle group is used (up to two or three for larger muscle groups) and the isolation exercises should be selected to focus on a specific weak point within the muscle group.
Various different training splits can be used, including:
Day 1: Quads, hams, and calves
Day 2: Chest and back
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Shoulders and traps
Day 5: Biceps and triceps
Day 6: Abs and lower back
Day 7: Off
Or...
Day 1: Chest, shoulders, and triceps
Day 2: Quads and abs
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Back, biceps, traps, and rear delts
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Hams, lower back, and calves
Day 7: Off
Or ...
Day 1: Quads and chest
Day 2: Back, lower back, hamstrings, and calves
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Shoulders, traps, and abs
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Biceps and triceps
Day 7: Off
Or ...
Day 1: Chest and biceps
Day 2: Quads, hams, and calves
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Back, lower back, and traps
Day 5: Off
Day 6: Shoulders, triceps, and abs
Day 7: Off

Methods you can use with this approach:
• Regular lifting with your 6-8RM or 8-12RM
• Rest-pause: Perform a 6-8RM set; when you reach failure rest for 10-12 seconds and then perform a few more reps.
• Double rest-pause: Perform a 4-6RM (or 6-8RM) set; when you reach failure rest for 10-12 seconds and then perform a few more reps, then rest 10-12 seconds and again perform a few more reps.
• Single drop set: Perform a 4-6RM (or 6-8RM) set, then reduce the load by 25% and perform reps to failure.
• Pre-fatigue: Superset one isolation (8-12 reps) with one compound exercise (6-8 reps) for the same muscle group.
• Post-fatigue: Superset one compound (6-8 reps) with one isolation exercise (8-12 reps) for the same muscle group.
• Antagonist superset (if training two opposing muscle groups in the same session): Superset one exercise for a muscle (e.g. chest) with one for its antagonist (e.g. back). Sets of 6-8 or 8-12 reps are performed.

Pros and cons of this approach:
• It allows you to use a wide variety of exercises for each muscle group, which minimizes the risk of developing a severe imbalance: PRO.
• You can create a lot of micro-trauma at each session which will represent an important training stimulus: PRO.
• There's less neuromuscular improvements than with high frequency training because you're not training each muscle group very often: CON.
• Some people won't give a maximum effort on all sets because they unconsciously want to pace themselves to be able to finish the workout: CON.
• A higher volume of work allow for hypertrophy stimulation via the cumulative fatigue phenomenon as well as the stimulation of hGH release induced by the elevation of lactate levels: PRO.
• If you wimp out during a training session and your workout isn't productive, then you have to wait a whole week before being able to stimulate that muscle again: CON.
• Training fewer muscle groups per session allows you (compared to whole-body training) to train each muscle group with an equally high quality of effort, whereas with whole-body training the muscles being trained last won't be trained as hard: PRO.

Why or when should you use this approach?
This approach is better suited for individuals who already have built a decent muscular base through the use of basic training and decide to focus their efforts on maximizing their muscular development. If you're training for bodybuilding-type or aesthetic-type gains, this is the best approach most of the time.

smoundzou

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:08 PM
I think all the input so far is very interesting information, the problem is no one has yet to answer the original question I asked. 
 
Again, excluding pro bber's who are on massive amounts of anabolic steroids.. Why would any trainee only train a muscle 1 X weekly?   What are the functional, medical and biological reasonings behind this training method.. I'm looking for anything anyone can contribute to constitute this way of training.
 
I don't think anyone on this board or any other board who trains naturally is capable, day after day, week after week of putting their bodies under the stress and punishment that would be needed to prohibit them from training a muscle for 6 days after their workout....Even if attempted naturally, for those who would be capable.. they would soon enter a state of over-reaching and probably end up getting injured...
There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 
Acujeremy

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:16 PM
Maybe time? Not everyone can go to the gym more than 3 times a week. Also, don't you ever take a week off and find that you got more definition from the rest? I think I've experienced that.

there is a lot of evidence that muscles take 1 week to fully recover. HST peeps say it only takes  afew days. I don't know. I woudl believe the scientific info more than a program that sells products.

I think heavy lifting a muscle more than once a week, may be too much. Push ups and body exercises I think twice a week is ok.
smoundzou

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:25 PM
Just so we keep on track.. definition does not come from taking a week off.. Having more pronounced definition is solely from diet..
 
Regarding HST peeps... HST doesn't advocate a muscle being fully recovered in a day or two.. they advocate that the muscle is ready to be trained again after 36-48 hours.. huge difference between fully recovered and recovered enough to re-work the muscle again..
 
Although there may be some studies that say it takes a full 7 days for a muscle to recover.. no study has ever been able to soundly say that the muscle be dormant for those 7 days.. and studies have also shown that frequency, strength and hypertrophy go hand in hand...
 
Most of these crazy idea's about hitting a muscle 1 X weekly originated from the muscle comics.. about the time steroids became popular with BBers...  
 
 

ORIGINAL: Acujeremy

Maybe time? Not everyone can go to the gym more than 3 times a week. Also, don't you ever take a week off and find that you got more definition from the rest? I think I've experienced that.

there is a lot of evidence that muscles take 1 week to fully recover. HST peeps say it only takes  afew days. I don't know. I woudl believe the scientific info more than a program that sells products.

I think heavy lifting a muscle more than once a week, may be too much. Push ups and body exercises I think twice a week is ok.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 
Nm0ney34

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RE: training each body part once a week vs. two - Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:35 PM
What are you talking about?

I was referring to that there are still plenty of people on this site that do splits. *not myself



ORIGINAL: David1991

a full body is just as easy to implement in that situation as a split, it wouldnt make any difference



In the artical they TRY to stay neutral, but they throw in little tid bits and the way they lay out the pro's and cons made me feel they were a little biased towards splits. It doesnt surprise me, nearly everyone is.

Im also well aware that a split can be more than just 1 muscle one day a week.
current 5rm On the texas method
Squat:325
Deadlift:365
Bench:255
My lifting journal

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?s=38c084ec0455b629ed0f09e4af40aeaf&t=2407&page=8
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