step by step transformation

RollingStone


Virt: Ive always been natural.  Idk yet if ill use anabolics but im waiting till im 21 to decide.  Theres a good chance I will though...

DxM I do get sex easy haha.

IBB:  When I first came here, you were tha one I looked up to tha most.  I think I mentioned that about a year ago.  It was because you were the ecto that got real big and Im an ecto too, so that was my inspiration.  haha thanks for the compliments it means alot.

why the **** do you want to get on the juice for????

You got good genetics .. and have made good progress in 2 years ... yes it will get harder to put on mass but really your at a good level ....

people look better natural anyway ... not to mention all the health problems you could well have wen your older ...

only people  who should ever hit the gear (and yet deep down, with the problems they have later on, i think is it really worth it), are the ones making bank from either sport or movies, etc .... average joe taking the juice is pure stupid.

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. - Frank Sinatra

RS,
   Just my opinion, but I'm with Bull on this one.  You look phenomenal "natural."  :)  You got dealt a great genetic hand, and your commitment to your body is inspirational!  Do you feel you will need the anabolics for football?

Like I said I havent decided, but its fun to work towards goals in this game and when i hit my genetic limit I wont have much to go for.  I dont know how much different I really wanna look but Id like to squat and deadlift a couple hundred more pounds...Clean and Jerk 315.  Ill have to see what happens.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

I tend to disagree with some of you on this subject. If you properly use a PH for example at a proper age than you should have no problems unless you are already predisposed towards problems which your doctor should be able to tell you. RS is talking about taking something 3+ years from now i believe and by then he probably will have already hit his natural potential and if he wanted to continue to progress than that is his choice. Before bashing something just because of the name, it would be better to research it and understand how it works because in reality it does have its place in this hobby if used safely.

PumaKrieg


I tend to disagree with some of you on this subject. If you properly use a PH for example at a proper age than you should have no problems unless you are already predisposed towards problems which your doctor should be able to tell you. RS is talking about taking something 3+ years from now i believe and by then he probably will have already hit his natural potential and if he wanted to continue to progress than that is his choice. Before bashing something just because of the name, it would be better to research it and understand how it works because in reality it does have its place in this hobby if used safely.

agreed, and thats basically what it comes down to, at that point will I want more or will I be satisfied with where I am.  As of now I cant possibly say whether or not Ill be satisfied with the natural peak or feel the need to go further. 

I dont want to get much bigger though thats for sure.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

PumaKrieg


I tend to disagree with some of you on this subject. If you properly use a PH for example at a proper age than you should have no problems unless you are already predisposed towards problems which your doctor should be able to tell you. RS is talking about taking something 3+ years from now i believe and by then he probably will have already hit his natural potential and if he wanted to continue to progress than that is his choice. Before bashing something just because of the name, it would be better to research it and understand how it works because in reality it does have its place in this hobby if used safely.

PumaKrieg,
   I wasn't so much bashing anabolics as I was being concerned for RS's health and safety.  I have not researched the subject, which is why I sometimes poke around and ask questions.  What little I have read seems to pretty universally advise against it, including prohormones.  That doesn't mean that there are not scare tactics at play, and that for many, with a doctor's okay, they can be taken relatively risk free.  I imagine that in many arenas, football included, those drugs are probably so often used as to place a person at a distinct disadvantage for not using them.  I fully understand it is his choice, but choices are made based on research and whatever input a person receives, including those questioning whether it's a good idea.  I'm sure everyone is mature enough to weigh the value of information, research, and advice based on credibility.  I don't expect him to say, "Well I better not do that.  JMBS said not to!"  I was simply voicing my concern implicitly and paying the guy a compliment that I don't think he needs that because he looks phenomenal already.  That's all.   :)

JMBS; my post wasn't even directed at you; you said nothing bad. 

I also must ask exactly what is this talk about people looking better natural. Taking a PH isnt suddenly going to turn you into a Jay Cutler or completely change your natural bodyshape to that of someone who uses HGH. I'm willing to bet there are several people on here who use PHs who look perfectly normal and don't look worse because they are not "natural". Part of what makes the professionals look so unusual to us anyway is that we aren't used to seeing that low of a body fat %. Most of the professionals look great during the offseason when their % is slightly higher.

PK,
   Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  You're correct, the pros look different off season.  But let me tell you, when Gustavo Baddell posed at the contest I attended, to me that did not look good at all.  I felt sorry for him having to live with that body.  It was just overkill to me.  Even if he were 100% natural I would say it's just not my taste.  And you're also right, many of the guys at the contest probably had been using at one time or another, and they looked fantastic.  And I also understand, correct me, that after not using for many years, you keep the muscle but lose the detectibility of the steroid, so you can compete "natural" anyway?  So who knows who's doing what?  I guess you just have to compete against yourself, working to make the new "you" better than the "old," and be happy with that.
   I think a lot of the pros looked great in their early careers and then the muscle mass just got out of control for my taste.  In my opinion, it's as if you can never be big enough.  Size is king.  Proportion, definition, healthfulness not so much.  But again, different strokes for different folks!
   A 2008 book I have says prohormones are illegal.  Is that true?  Are they legal with a doc's prescription?  It also says they're one step away from hormones and the body readily converts them into hormones.  Mentions possible hair and skin problems, as well as gyno as possibilities.  I'm gathering that steroids come in different strengths and hence different potential for problems, and that prohormones are relatively mild and safer, yet nothing's 100% safe?

J, there is a lot of reading to do based on all those questions but I can answer a few.

If you used gear or designer steroids or injectables once in the past, they will keep the muscle based on how they do the PCT. If that is spot on, they will retain most of it and then they can move on with that permanent muscle mass.

PH's are illegal, but there are still some damn good ones being sold legally today. Steroids are legal with an script.

As far as I see it, injectables are safer than an oral PH because a PH has to pass through the liver and be converted and all that, whereas if you inject straight test e, it's used, but shutdown is more significant.

RollingStone


agreed, and thats basically what it comes down to, at that point will I want more or will I be satisfied with where I am.  As of now I cant possibly say whether or not Ill be satisfied with the natural peak or feel the need to go further. 

I dont want to get much bigger though thats for sure.

Then what would be the use of steroids if you don't want to be much bigger, you don't have much any bf to lose either.  If you only want a little bit more size you should be fine getting it naturally, but as is the case with many people, they always want to be bigger, even if they reach a look they had imagined before it will never feel as big as they thought it would be.

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

SEOINAGE

RollingStone


agreed, and thats basically what it comes down to, at that point will I want more or will I be satisfied with where I am.  As of now I cant possibly say whether or not Ill be satisfied with the natural peak or feel the need to go further. 

I dont want to get much bigger though thats for sure.

Then what would be the use of steroids if you don't want to be much bigger, you don't have much any bf to lose either.  If you only want a little bit more size you should be fine getting it naturally, but as is the case with many people, they always want to be bigger, even if they reach a look they had imagined before it will never feel as big as they thought it would be.

I want to be ridiculously strong for my weight.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

Me too. I wanna be a ripped 200 pounder putting up weight against guys in the 275 class.

RollingStone

SEOINAGE

RollingStone


agreed, and thats basically what it comes down to, at that point will I want more or will I be satisfied with where I am.  As of now I cant possibly say whether or not Ill be satisfied with the natural peak or feel the need to go further. 

I dont want to get much bigger though thats for sure.

Then what would be the use of steroids if you don't want to be much bigger, you don't have much any bf to lose either.  If you only want a little bit more size you should be fine getting it naturally, but as is the case with many people, they always want to be bigger, even if they reach a look they had imagined before it will never feel as big as they thought it would be.

I want to be ridiculously strong for my weight.

Ah yes true, well as far as I'm concerned at 200 lbs you could bench 400 and squat/dl 600 lbs naturally with several years of training.  And I'm guessing you could surpass it without roids too, but then again if you were on them you could train a lot harder and reach well beyond that, fast recovery, just make sure you have the time to put in in the weight room.  Those are my goals atleast double weight in bench triple weight in the other two naturally.

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

Okay, I have what may be a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway:  For me personally I want to stay away from steroids first off for the possible health implications, but also because in the back of my mind I would consider it cheating.  I wouldn't be as impressed looking in the mirror if I had that kind of help.  Does the same go for lifting strength.  Would you not be more impressed with yourself if you lifted heavy without help?  Now if it has something to do with impressing others, which I understand, that may be a different story.  What do you guys think?  Do you consider it a shortcut, or a form of cheating?

I consider it a personal belief and how far you want to take this lifestyle.

For me, too much is never enough in terms of strength, no matter what it takes.

Well in competition in many federations its considered cheating, yet people still do it and get an edge over others.  Another thing that sucks about it is someone wanting to be naturally will never really get to the top either if they wanted to be a pro powerlifter or bodybuilder. 

But for yourself it is really up to you, would you expose yourself to radiation if you knew it would make you as strong as the Hulk?

http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Seos-Log-2008-m442008.aspx

Like I've said before, I don't consider it "cheating" any more than using rockets to send men to the moon was "cheating".  There's just no other conventional way to get some places, know'm sane?

The word "Cheating", in my vocabulary implies that you are taking a shortcut to an end that was otherwise achievable without taking the shortcut, and in the case of extreme muscle development, that is a frankly naive insinuation to be making.

Someone once posted a primetime network interview regarding steroid use and the low incidence of appreciable side effects in men over 30.  I'd be interested to see that video again.  As a consenting adult, capable of doing my own research and tempering my expectations, I would like to think that I could someday make that choice myself.

My home away from DBB

veggeep


Like I've said before, I don't consider it "cheating" any more than using rockets to send men to the moon was "cheating".  There's just no other conventional way to get some places, know'm sane?

The word "Cheating", in my vocabulary implies that you are taking a shortcut to an end that was otherwise achievable without taking the shortcut, and in the case of extreme muscle development, that is a frankly naive insinuation to be making.

Someone once posted a primetime network interview regarding steroid use and the low incidence of appreciable side effects in men over 30.  I'd be interested to see that video again.  As a consenting adult, capable of doing my own research and tempering my expectations, I would like to think that I could someday make that choice myself.

That works as long as everyone plays by the same rules, right?  Should these federations, etc. just say roids are okay, but the potential risk is on you?  I'm not trying to be judgmental about anyone else's life situation, although with an interest in competition and staying natural, it is somewhat disconcerting thinking some of my competitors may have an unfair advantage.  Even in a "natural" contest contestants could have juiced years ago and be undetectable.  I can cope with it though.  For me it's not so much about beating someone else, although to be honest that would be nice and feel good (I think we all like to thump our chests once in a while!).  My bodybuiding look is not important enough to me to go down that road.  Even if I were to stay the way I am in the years to come, I will be somewhat content that I look pretty good for my age.  But we all would prefer more, myself included!  ;)

I wouldn't call it cheating yourself as you seem to imply JMBS. It's not like you are going to take a legal PH on the market and blowup without doing any real work. I believe ive posted before somewhere that most people i know gain 3-8 pounds per cycle they run which seems to last 6-8 weeks and I don't know if they even keep all of this weight or if it is all muscle. In that case we could pull the whole is using creatine "cheating yourself" (Despite the fact its in food)? The truth of the matter is no, because it doesn't have a huge effect and truth to be told I don't think the legal PHs on the market have a HUGE effect either unless if several cycles are ran over several years. In my mind, if your body produces it or it can be gotten from eating (even though it may require huge amounts) then it is fair game. Media has screwed everyone over and created a huge "natural" craze in which anyone who has is huge is using steroids, forgetting to take into the account that they had to work their ass off to get there regardless of whether they are natural or not.

Perrynaytor


I consider it a personal belief and how far you want to take this lifestyle.

For me, too much is never enough in terms of strength, no matter what it takes.

Exactly.  It really just comes down to how far you wanna take it and after a certain point you cant go much further without help. 

To JMBS, yeah, its nice to look at what youve done naturally and know all the hard work you put into it, but with or without aas, i still did tha natural work to get there either way you know?

A lot of people already think im on juice and Im not gonna sit there and try to prove to them that Im not, its impossible.  It only comes down to you and what you want out of it.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

what weight did you start at?     

PumaKrieg


I wouldn't call it cheating yourself as you seem to imply JMBS. It's not like you are going to take a legal PH on the market and blowup without doing any real work. I believe ive posted before somewhere that most people i know gain 3-8 pounds per cycle they run which seems to last 6-8 weeks and I don't know if they even keep all of this weight or if it is all muscle. In that case we could pull the whole is using creatine "cheating yourself" (Despite the fact its in food)? The truth of the matter is no, because it doesn't have a huge effect and truth to be told I don't think the legal PHs on the market have a HUGE effect either unless if several cycles are ran over several years. In my mind, if your body produces it or it can be gotten from eating (even though it may require huge amounts) then it is fair game. Media has screwed everyone over and created a huge "natural" craze in which anyone who has is huge is using steroids, forgetting to take into the account that they had to work their ass off to get there regardless of whether they are natural or not.

Agree 100%.  I have never doubted that you still have to put the work in.  I've been saying for years concerning the controversy swirling around Lance Armstrong and whether he doped, "I don't care how much crap he may or may not have in him, that guy works his ass off!"  And I too have thought about the creatine, protein powder, supplements, etc, and the unnatural whole food diet too.  I mean what normal person eats the way we do?  Even using iron weights isn't natural.  I suppose natural would result from running, climbing, swimming.  Natural human feats of survival.  So it's all semantics and your definition I suppose.  If it can be done safely, knock yourself out.  I don't like seeing people hurt themselves.  But we all have the right to make our own choices.  It's clear why the subject is so controversial.  It's like many of the issues we ponder:  It's not black and white, but many shades of gray.

RollingStone

Perrynaytor


I consider it a personal belief and how far you want to take this lifestyle.

For me, too much is never enough in terms of strength, no matter what it takes.

Exactly.  It really just comes down to how far you wanna take it and after a certain point you cant go much further without help. 

To JMBS, yeah, its nice to look at what youve done naturally and know all the hard work you put into it, but with or without aas, i still did tha natural work to get there either way you know?

A lot of people already think im on juice and Im not gonna sit there and try to prove to them that Im not, its impossible.  It only comes down to you and what you want out of it.

RS,
    Agreed.  I know how much work you put in.  I read your log.  You, and I, do have to admit we've been given some okay clay with which to sculpt, right?  Mom and Dad helped out at least a little!  You know, no one has ever asked whether I juice but some of the looks I get make me wonder whether they're thinking that, and I look nothing like you.  If someone accused me, I'd probably say thanks for the compliment, man!  ;)  I too at my age feel I may be bumping up against a wall.  I think diet is the issue, but it could be largely age.  So, I know the feeling a litttle too.  Underlying my words is a hope that you'll stay safe and healthy, for the whole long life ahead of you.  Developing your strengh is what makes you happy, and being happy means reduced stress, a very healthy thing!  Good workin' out, RS!  If I can someday have the body you have today, I will be the happy one!  ;)

JMBS


Okay, I have what may be a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway:  For me personally I want to stay away from steroids first off for the possible health implications, but also because in the back of my mind I would consider it cheating.  I wouldn't be as impressed looking in the mirror if I had that kind of help.  Does the same go for lifting strength.  Would you not be more impressed with yourself if you lifted heavy without help?  Now if it has something to do with impressing others, which I understand, that may be a different story.  What do you guys think?  Do you consider it a shortcut, or a form of cheating?

Just look at how many athletes are coming out stating they cant sleep at night knowing they cheated there way to success.

Why i dont get about the average joe doing the gear .... is that one of the main reasons you lift is to look better and be heathly ... but by taking the gear you are going to become unhealthy and when you get older, you will lose your gans and your body will look like ****

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. - Frank Sinatra

Nice progress man!

"True genius, in many fields of human endeavor, is often revealed in elegant simplicity."

- A smart man

Journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=117358

The_Bull

JMBS


Okay, I have what may be a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway:  For me personally I want to stay away from steroids first off for the possible health implications, but also because in the back of my mind I would consider it cheating.  I wouldn't be as impressed looking in the mirror if I had that kind of help.  Does the same go for lifting strength.  Would you not be more impressed with yourself if you lifted heavy without help?  Now if it has something to do with impressing others, which I understand, that may be a different story.  What do you guys think?  Do you consider it a shortcut, or a form of cheating?

Just look at how many athletes are coming out stating they cant sleep at night knowing they cheated there way to success.

Why i dont get about the average joe doing the gear .... is that one of the main reasons you lift is to look better and be heathly ... but by taking the gear you are going to become unhealthy and when you get older, you will lose your gans and your body will look like ****

lol, doubt they actually have problems sleeping at night.  Its just to make them seem more sorry when they tell everyone.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

The legal PHs really aren't that bad if used correctly and are much more common than you think Bull.

Heres some legs for the first time ever.  Pictures are from about 2 weeks ago.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.

impressive as always. I think they look pretty big on you tbh.

One day Ill be that cut...one day...once I get done putting on some more muscle...lol

6'3"  @213

Squat 1x20x275

press:200, Deadlift:475, Bench:300, P.clean:235, Squat:385

"The only failure that is final is to stop trying to improve"

Nm0ney34


impressive as always. I think they look pretty big on you tbh.

One day Ill be that cut...one day...once I get done putting on some more muscle...lol

They were big before I ever started lifting, probably where my weight comes from because most people at my height and weight would look a little bigger than me.

working on explosive phase
vertical: 35
weight: 206

Big 3: 300/440/515

Strength and growth come only through continuous effort and struggle.