If you were to choose...

RE: If you were to choose... (Beachbum)

Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:12:28 GMT

ORIGINAL: tdf700

" These results suggest that endogenous nitric oxide may function as a modulator of vascular smooth muscle cell mitogenesis and proliferation, by a cGMP-mediated mechanism."

Smooth muscle is the muscle found in the digestive tract, arteries, and the bladder. Not the pretty, striated ones that move your skeleton.

RE: If you were to choose... (Superman)

Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:40:55 GMT

Excellent post Marc, Well done, I enjoyed reading it. As for Vario, is that true that No2 can do that to the heart? That is kind of scary if I do say so myself..

-Brian

RE: If you were to choose... (Vario)

Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:41:52 GMT

Creatine Monohydrate (plain stuff) and gatorade, possibly with added dextrose is very similar to cell mass creatine.
No2 simply gives you more pump, and there is evidence that it can be bad for your heart I believe.

RE: If you were to choose... (AnimalForever1)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:19:44 GMT

I think a diet high in complex and moderate simple carbs will keep a better pump than NO2 supplements. I take a "cell volumizer" supplement called Storm from Universal, but the ingredent list is simple and the formula is effective. I don't rely on that supplement to give me a pump. Why do u go to the gym? Answer: to get a pump. Get you pumps in the gym lifting weights, not by drinking some s*ity drink. And lifting to get the pump is what builds muscle. You rely on lifting weights to build muscle not NO-Xplode. An effective mass building diet builds muscle not supplements!

Diet-80% Training-17% Supplements-3% (Get me?!)

RE: If you were to choose... (Marc David)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:30:33 GMT

While I picked Cell-mass, I 100% agree with BlueNitro about these stuidies.

"May"

That isn't conclusive. If you do the same search for creatine, you'll find

"Does"
"Shown"

NO2 supplements are fun to try. And sometimes the pump is worth it. And if nothing else, if you are mentally more psyched to workout, that is a benefit itself.

But supplements in general, are like 3% of the picture.

3% isn't much unless you have the other 97% in order. Many people <me included> suffer from nutrition setbacks that hurt us much more then any gains some promised pill will deliver.

Don't take my post as a "supplements don't work" because I do use them. But take it as, I need to get everything in order and then pick from some stable basics and just mess with the rest and see what goes. That's why I selected Cell-mass from your options. It was the best pick based on research, my own experiences and lots of other creatine responders.

RE: If you were to choose... (Superman)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:02:08 GMT

Very cool, after waiting for responses, I will say out of the two, i'd choose Cellmass as well. It is just a great product IMO but man thats a price many run from! LOL.

RE: If you were to choose... (BlueNitro)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:44:36 GMT

" These results suggest that endogenous nitric oxide may function as a modulator of vascular smooth muscle cell mitogenesis and proliferation, by a cGMP-mediated mechanism."

LOL! "May"

RE: If you were to choose... (tdf700)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:41:33 GMT

here is another study

http://www.pubmedcentral.com/articlerender.fcgi?artid=303890

dont want to read it all here is the beginning and the end

"The purpose of this study was to determine if vasodilator drugs that generate nitric oxide inhibit vascular smooth muscle mitogenesis and proliferation in culture."

" These results suggest that endogenous nitric oxide may function as a modulator of vascular smooth muscle cell mitogenesis and proliferation, by a cGMP-mediated mechanism."

RE: If you were to choose... (Marc David)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:40:07 GMT

If I had to choose?

Cell-mass. As I know creatine works and has been proven over and over to do so.

NO2 type supps... where's the proof? It's all "may" and "should" and "probably". There's little research on it. And the pumps gained are nothing new to the old skool community that used to take L-Argine for pumps.

So between the two? Cell-mass. Because Creatine is a well researched and proven supplement.

RE: If you were to choose... (BlueNitro)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:33:37 GMT

tdf700: Those are studies on rats man. Learn how to search pubmed.

1. Click the "Limits" tab.
2. Choose "Randomized Controlled Trial"
3. Choose "Humans".
4. Type your criteria in the search box and click ok.

rats don't count, they don't lift weights.

Plus this study says "For the principal putative angiogenic growth factor, VEGF, these data suggest that naturally secreted vasodilators in contracting skeletal muscle could be involved in regulation of gene expression, namely, nitric oxide in a positive and PGI2 in a negative direction."

RE: If you were to choose... (Superman)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:14:45 GMT

After reading what Blue Nitro said, I will agree tohis side of the arguement/debate. I actually am with you on this as I believe that coffee/caffeine can give the same effects as No-Xplode. It does force me to train a bit harder, but I am starting to use motivation to push myself that extra mile and it seems to work actually. As for the Spectrum, I am a patrol officer for Orange County (South) and I know that place well, it's with all the nice looking searchlights around lol. Thats my middle point on my patrols. I use those lights to tell where I am at times just for the hell of it lol. But yes, I do see Blue Nitro on this one and how he looks at it as a scam, I would too, the price does suck, I will have to agree.

RE: If you were to choose... (tdf700)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:06:39 GMT

here is the same study with a little bit more information

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/5/1513

RE: If you were to choose... (tdf700)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:04:56 GMT

oopss here it is

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10233112&dopt=Abstract

RE: If you were to choose... (tdf700)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:03:56 GMT

Here is one medical study on
Effect of NO, vasodilator prostaglandins, and adenosine on skeletal muscle angiogenic growth factor gene expression

RE: If you were to choose... (BlueNitro)

Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:46:39 GMT

I'm in Lake Forest and I work in Irvine next to the Spectrum.

I took those kinds of sups once, and yes, I got a big rush and pump, I worked out a little harder I suppose. My muscles swelled. But went down like 2 days later. I feel I kept the strength. But I don't think that gain was from the sup directly, I feel it was because I worked out a little harder. But hell, I can get that rush from a cheapo caffeine pill or 2-3 cups of coffee. I just don't think it's worth all that money, maybe if they didn't charge so much for it. That's why I think it's a scam. They figure if people see a pump, they will think that the sup is working to make the grow more muscle, so they rape you on the prices.