Begining Supplements

RE: Begining Supplements (KingZeroX)

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:07:10 GMT

ORIGINAL: coldfire

I heard that 16 years old kids don't need ****ing supplements. I've also heard that TRAINING helps. The arguments in this thread are extremely not interesting or helpful.

Amen to that. Training and FOOD.

RE: Begining Supplements (coldfire)

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:20:59 GMT

I heard that 16 years old kids don't need ****ing supplements. I've also heard that TRAINING helps. The arguments in this thread are extremely not interesting or helpful.

RE: Begining Supplements (MassCrusader)

Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:08:38 GMT

I'm taking ON 100% Whey Gold Standard at 1.5 times my bodyweight per gram w/ CEE from Axis Labs and a multivitamin twice a day. This should be safe for you at your age, and you see noticable gains as long as your nutrition, sleep, and water intake is right also.

Gonna include Test Boost, NO, and Cissus in my stack later, but for now, this is all I can afford.

RE: Begining Supplements (KingZeroX)

Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:19:11 GMT

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

haha all i have to say is i used to be like you; the guy who thinks he's always right and won't let anyone tell him otherwise. the guy who thinks he's always right and would fight and die for the smallest things. you'll realize how stupid and pointless your argument is. bottom line is that it is beneficial, whether you like it or not

I am not always right and I doubt you were like me because I use scientific feedback over anecdotal feedback first. Re-read my first posts on glutamine, I never said it was completely worthless, it can help with the immune system and changing the PH levels in the human body, but in regards to muscle preservation or gains its worthless. Leucine(free form), BCAA's(free form) and EAA's(free form) have studies to support it's muscle sparing effects and protein synthesis...glutamine does not, other than bro feedback.

Is there a reason you're carrying out this argument? I'm pretty sure the original post didn't include "by the way will someone prove that glutamine is pointless?" Which, by the way it isn't. Your scientific studies are great and all, but the fact that you're including NO personal experience is a downfall on your part. I started using glutamine recently and I've noticed a difference for the better without changing anything else in my diet. So it works for some, obviously. Maybe "bro-intelligence" as you put it works just fine for some of us.

RE: Begining Supplements (Sasquatch76)

Thu, 12 Jun 2008 16:13:40 GMT

I've heard that you only benefit from time released MV's. ON Gold standard is a great product. 16 is not too young at all, especially if its just protien + mv.

RE: Begining Supplements (defiant)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:06:26 GMT

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

haha all i have to say is i used to be like you; the guy who thinks he's always right and won't let anyone tell him otherwise. the guy who thinks he's always right and would fight and die for the smallest things. you'll realize how stupid and pointless your argument is. bottom line is that it is beneficial, whether you like it or not

I am not always right and I doubt you were like me because I use scientific feedback over anecdotal feedback first. Re-read my first posts on glutamine, I never said it was completely worthless, it can help with the immune system and changing the PH levels in the human body, but in regards to muscle preservation or gains its worthless. Leucine(free form), BCAA's(free form) and EAA's(free form) have studies to support it's muscle sparing effects and protein synthesis...glutamine does not, other than bro feedback.

RE: Begining Supplements (defiant)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 15:00:34 GMT

Here is a study that proves the only aminos needed for protein synthesis are EAA's and not NEAA's which glutamine is.

Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle
from orally administered amino acids
KEVIN D. TIPTON, ARNY A. FERRANDO, STUART M. PHILLIPS,
DAVID DOYLE, JR., AND ROBERT R. WOLFE
Metabolism Unit, Shriners Burns Institute, and Departments of Surgery and Anesthesiology,
University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550
Tipton, Kevin D., Arny A. Ferrando, Stuart M. Phillips,
David Doyle, Jr., and Robert R. Wolfe. Postexercise
net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered
amino acids. Am. J. Physiol. 276 (Endocrinol. Metab.
39): E628–E634, 1999.—We examined the response of net
muscle protein synthesis to ingestion of amino acids after a
bout of resistance exercise. A primed, constant infusion of
L-[ring-2H5]phenylalanine was used to measure net muscle
protein balance in three male and three female volunteers on
three occasions. Subjects consumed in random order 1 liter of
1) a mixed amino acid (40 g) solution (MAA), 2) an essential
amino acid (40 g) solution (EAA), and 3) a placebo solution
(PLA). Arterial amino acid concentrations increased ,150–
640% above baseline during ingestion of MAA and EAA. Net
muscle protein balance was significantly increased from
negative during PLA ingestion (250 6 23 nmol·min21 ·100
ml leg volume21) to positive during MAA ingestion (17 6 13
nmol·min21 ·100 ml leg volume21) and EAA (29 6 14
nmol·min21 ·100 ml leg volume21; P , 0.05). Because net
balance was similar for MAA and EAA, it does not appear
necessary to include nonessential amino acids in a formulation
designed to elicit an anabolic response from muscle after
exercise. We concluded that ingestion of oral essential amino
acids results in a change from net muscle protein degradation
to net muscle protein synthesis after heavy resistance exercise
in humans similar to that seen when the amino acids
were infused.

RE: Begining Supplements (boomersooner1331)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:58:08 GMT

haha all i have to say is i used to be like you; the guy who thinks he's always right and won't let anyone tell him otherwise. the guy who thinks he's always right and would fight and die for the smallest things. you'll realize how stupid and pointless your argument is. bottom line is that it is beneficial, whether you like it or not

RE: Begining Supplements (defiant)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:54:57 GMT

I see an article written by someone with no refrences other than studies show blah blah, were are these studies....oh wait are these the same studies that show burn victims in a hospital setting for support?

RE: Begining Supplements (boomersooner1331)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:49:22 GMT

What Does Glutamine Do?
Posted on January 6, 2008 in Glutamine Supplements by admin

One of the most common questions I see getting asked on forums around the web is “what does glutamine do?”. Bodybuilders have used glutamine for years, and now athletes from all sporting disciplines are starting to use glutamine. Not only that, doctors now realize the positive effects glutamine has on the immune system and are prescribing it to elderly patients. Let’s have a look at what it is and what it does…
What is Glutamine?
Glutamine is an amino acid. Amino acids are the building blocks to protein. Glutamine is not just any amino acid, it is the most abundant amino acid in our body - and highly concentrated in our muscles. Glutamine has recently been re-classified as a conditionally essential amino acid. This means that while the body can make glutamine, there are times when the body’s need for glutamine is greater than its ability to produce glutamine.
What does Glutamine do?
Studies have shown that glutamine supplementation can do the following:

Increase Protein synthesis (which leads to increased muscle mass)
Increase nitrogen retention
Decrease muscle breakdown
Decrease recovery time needed after a workout
Enhance immune functions

So whether you want to build muscle or just stay healthy, glutamine can help you

RE: Begining Supplements (boomersooner1331)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:44:12 GMT

ORIGINAL: defiant

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

i'm not going to argue with you because this is pointless. i know that it works and it is necessary.

i'll keep doing what i do to look good like i do.......and you keep doing whatever you do to look like whatever you look like. hmmm. do you have a picture of yourself?

You are not going to argue because you don't have any support other than what you have been told by supplement companies. I for one am always a skeptic on anecdotal feedback with supplements because of something called the placebo effect. Studies overall are a good measure to start from because of the placebo effect, toxicity and controlled environments.

I have posted unbiased information yet all you have is "It works for me bro, it must be good"

So if I post a pic then I prove my knowledge....how do you know if my gains were natural? Do you think a pic will tell you that? I really don't care what you take or not, but when you are arguing which requieres support other then "it works for me" don't expect individuals to be quiet.

see the post right above yours. you'll realize your argument sucks, and has no point.

i'm sorry you don't like supplements that work, thats your choice.

RE: Begining Supplements (defiant)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:43:44 GMT

ential amino acid (EAA, 9.25 g) solution containing glutamine (0.3 g/kg BW; GLN trial) versus an isoenergetic CHO-EAA solution without glutamine (control, CON trial) on m

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

ORIGINAL: defiant

Here is free form l-glutamine and how worthless it is in general. L-leucine(free form) is a much better option and cheaper.

1: Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):518-29.

Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise.

Wilkinson SB, Kim PL, Armstrong D, Phillips SM.

Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

Quote: We examined the effect of a post-exercise oral carbohydrate (CHO, 1 g.kg(-1).h(-1)) and essential amino acid (EAA, 9.25 g) solution containing glutamine (0.3 g/kg BW; GLN trial) versus an isoenergetic CHO-EAA solution without glutamine (control, CON trial) on muscle glycogen resynthesis and whole-body protein turnover following 90 min of cycling at 65% VO2 peak. Over the course of 3 h of recovery, muscle biopsies were taken to measure glycogen resynthesis and mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS), by incorporation of [ring-2H5] phenylalanine. Infusion of [1-13C] leucine was used to measure whole-body protein turnover. Exercise resulted in a significant decrease in muscle glycogen (p < 0.05) with similar declines in each trial. Glycogen resynthesis following 3 h of recovery indicated no difference in total accumulation or rate of repletion. Leucine oxidation increased 2.5 fold (p < 0.05) during exercise, returned to resting levels immediately post-exercise,and was again elevated at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05). Leucine flux, an index of whole-body protein breakdown rate, was reduced during exercise, but increased to resting levels immediately post-exercise, and was further increased at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05), but only during the CON trial. Exercise resulted in a marked suppression of whole-body protein synthesis (50% of rest; p < 0.05), which was restored post-exercise; however, the addition of glutamine did not affect whole-body protein synthesis post-exercise. The rate of MPS was not different between trials. The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis, but may suppress a rise in whole-body proteolysis during the later stages of recovery.

PMID: 17111006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

Quote: The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

PMID: 11822473 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The Effects of High-Dose Glutamine Ingestion on Weightlifting Performance

JOSE ANTONIO1, 3, MICHAEL S. SANDERS1, DOUGLAS KALMAN2, DEREK WOODGATE1, and CHRIS STREET1

1. Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, 2. Peak Wellness, Greenwich, Connecticut 06830, 3. Address correspondence to Jose Antonio, Scientific Affairs Department, Nutricia, 6111 Broken Sound Parkway NW, Boca Raton, FL 33487

Quote: The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean ? SE: age, 21.5 ? 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 ? 2.8 kg−1) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g?kg−1) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

Reference Data:Antonio, J., M.S. Sanders, D. Kalman, D. Woodgate, and C. Street. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance.

Keywords: amino acid, supplement, nutrition, protein

DOI: 10.1519/1533-4287(2002)016[0157:TEOHDG]2.0.CO;2

actually i'll tear you up on this real quick

look at the last article you posted. THEY USED GLUTAMINE AS A PREWORKOUT SUPPLEMENT LIKE YOU WOULD USE AN N.O. PRODUCT. WHERE DID I CLAIM IT WOULD HIT YOU WITH CAFFEINE SO YOU COULD LIFT MORE WEIGHT IN THE GYM? EXACTLY, I DIDN'T.

the article you posted was your own downfall. never did i claim that it made you stronger as a preworkout supp, or stronger in general.

like i stated in my post, protein synthesis, keeps muscle from breaking down, and increases recovery time, are the main purposes of glutamine. now, try to find where i made any claim that it made you stronger?

you should actually read the article before you post it

your stupidity gets worse as the thread proceeds, what does the first study say at the end
The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis,

They took the beverage post-workout....

you have zero studies, again only what your "bro-intelligence" tells you.

RE: Begining Supplements (defiant)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:35:32 GMT

ORIGINAL: boomersooner1331

i'm not going to argue with you because this is pointless. i know that it works and it is necessary.

i'll keep doing what i do to look good like i do.......and you keep doing whatever you do to look like whatever you look like. hmmm. do you have a picture of yourself?

You are not going to argue because you don't have any support other than what you have been told by supplement companies. I for one am always a skeptic on anecdotal feedback with supplements because of something called the placebo effect. Studies overall are a good measure to start from because of the placebo effect, toxicity and controlled environments.

I have posted unbiased information yet all you have is "It works for me bro, it must be good"

So if I post a pic then I prove my knowledge....how do you know if my gains were natural? Do you think a pic will tell you that? I really don't care what you take or not, but when you are arguing which requieres support other then "it works for me" don't expect individuals to be quiet.

RE: Begining Supplements (boomersooner1331)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:31:48 GMT

ORIGINAL: defiant

Here is free form l-glutamine and how worthless it is in general. L-leucine(free form) is a much better option and cheaper.

1: Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006 Oct;31(5):518-29.

Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and carbohydrate does not enhance anabolism in young human males following exercise.

Wilkinson SB, Kim PL, Armstrong D, Phillips SM.

Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

Quote: We examined the effect of a post-exercise oral carbohydrate (CHO, 1 g.kg(-1).h(-1)) and essential amino acid (EAA, 9.25 g) solution containing glutamine (0.3 g/kg BW; GLN trial) versus an isoenergetic CHO-EAA solution without glutamine (control, CON trial) on muscle glycogen resynthesis and whole-body protein turnover following 90 min of cycling at 65% VO2 peak. Over the course of 3 h of recovery, muscle biopsies were taken to measure glycogen resynthesis and mixed muscle protein synthesis (MPS), by incorporation of [ring-2H5] phenylalanine. Infusion of [1-13C] leucine was used to measure whole-body protein turnover. Exercise resulted in a significant decrease in muscle glycogen (p < 0.05) with similar declines in each trial. Glycogen resynthesis following 3 h of recovery indicated no difference in total accumulation or rate of repletion. Leucine oxidation increased 2.5 fold (p < 0.05) during exercise, returned to resting levels immediately post-exercise,and was again elevated at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05). Leucine flux, an index of whole-body protein breakdown rate, was reduced during exercise, but increased to resting levels immediately post-exercise, and was further increased at 3 h post-exercise (p < 0.05), but only during the CON trial. Exercise resulted in a marked suppression of whole-body protein synthesis (50% of rest; p < 0.05), which was restored post-exercise; however, the addition of glutamine did not affect whole-body protein synthesis post-exercise. The rate of MPS was not different between trials. The addition of glutamine to a CHO + EAA beverage had no effect on post-exercise muscle glycogen resynthesis or muscle protein synthesis, but may suppress a rise in whole-body proteolysis during the later stages of recovery.

PMID: 17111006 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001 Dec;86(2):142-9.

Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

Quote: The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

PMID: 11822473 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The Effects of High-Dose Glutamine Ingestion on Weightlifting Performance

JOSE ANTONIO1, 3, MICHAEL S. SANDERS1, DOUGLAS KALMAN2, DEREK WOODGATE1, and CHRIS STREET1

1. Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, 2. Peak Wellness, Greenwich, Connecticut 06830, 3. Address correspondence to Jose Antonio, Scientific Affairs Department, Nutricia, 6111 Broken Sound Parkway NW, Boca Raton, FL 33487

Quote: The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean ? SE: age, 21.5 ? 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 ? 2.8 kg−1) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g?kg−1) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

Reference Data:Antonio, J., M.S. Sanders, D. Kalman, D. Woodgate, and C. Street. The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance.

Keywords: amino acid, supplement, nutrition, protein

DOI: 10.1519/1533-4287(2002)016[0157:TEOHDG]2.0.CO;2

actually i'll tear you up on this real quick

look at the last article you posted. THEY USED GLUTAMINE AS A PREWORKOUT SUPPLEMENT LIKE YOU WOULD USE AN N.O. PRODUCT. WHERE DID I CLAIM IT WOULD HIT YOU WITH CAFFEINE SO YOU COULD LIFT MORE WEIGHT IN THE GYM? EXACTLY, I DIDN'T.

the article you posted was your own downfall. never did i claim that it made you stronger as a preworkout supp, or stronger in general.

like i stated in my post, protein synthesis, keeps muscle from breaking down, and increases recovery time, are the main purposes of glutamine. now, try to find where i made any claim that it made you stronger?

you should actually read the article before you post it

RE: Begining Supplements (boomersooner1331)

Wed, 11 Jun 2008 14:21:41 GMT

i'm not going to argue with you because this is pointless. i know that it works and it is necessary.

i'll keep doing what i do to look good like i do.......and you keep doing whatever you do to look like whatever you look like. hmmm. do you have a picture of yourself?