Unsure of what to do...

RE: Unsure of what to do... (DaBeast77)

Sat, 05 Feb 2005 00:12:35 GMT

im only 16 now, but in about 4 years ill probably consider steroids. i work out regularily (5 times a week) and i plan on continuing to do so. Would steroids be very harmful when im around 20?

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Powerhaus)

Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:29:13 GMT

Oh, and steroids are not "the only illegal supplement". They are not supplements, they are drugs.

As for the mercury in tuna...unless you're a child or pregnant (I assume you are neither) I really don't worry about it. You can switch to other kinds of fish, smaller fish have lover levels of toxin buildup than big ones, but personally I think the risk is so small that it's not worth worrying about.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (DrumProdigy83)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:49:30 GMT

Nicely put, and I couldn't agree more.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Elephant77)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 19:42:21 GMT

So steroids aren't really any worse than having a few beers now and then or casually smoking a cigarette (I don't smoke btw)?

Well thats taking it a little too far. You have to think of the kinds of risks each substance presents. Alcohol really only becomes a major risk when one becomes intoxicated, but in the long run lots of alcohol can lead to various other problems. Smoking 1 cigarette is no big deal but once you start smoking daily the long term risks add up. While one cycle of steroids could potentionally mess you up. It all depenends on how much and how often your doing these things.

Number 1 thing is too be smart, accept the risks, know exactly what your doing, and make sure you present no harm to others doing whatever you choose to do.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (DrumProdigy83)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:58:18 GMT

So steroids aren't really any worse than having a few beers now and then or casually smoking a cigarette (I don't smoke btw)? You guys said steroid hazards were kind of over exaggerated to keep people from using them... but how over exaggerated are they... specifially for a short duration and moderate quanitity...

I know this is off-topic, but I was just reading about mercury in tuna fish... I planned on eating at least 1-2 cans per day 5 days per week, but now I feel like I shouldn't eat tuna albacore at all. Light tuna is supposed to have 1/3 the mercury content of albacore tuna, but where can I find light tuna? Are there any other fish substitutes that are heart healthy, high in protein, and reasonably cheap and easy to make? What do you guys eat as your "main" protein supplier?

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Marc David)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:39:40 GMT

Keep in mind that comparing health supplements to alcohol or tobacco is apples to oranges.

The tobacco industry is world-wide, is geared towards hooking kids, spends millions of dollars in advertising, and has hundreds of highly paid lawyers. Not to mention, smoking has been part of every culture.

Alcohol is about the same. Ads, sponsors, millions of dollars, can bury lawsuits, and drag court cases out forever. Not to mention that drinking a beer is socially acceptable.

Steroids on the other hand, are manufactured by various companies, under no supervision (except labs like BALCO), don't advertise, are not socially acceptable and the companies do not spend any money on advertising. The only lawyers are usually obtained by people who get busted. Not to mention, drinking was socially acceptable. So it made sense to go underground when it was illegal and make even more money. Al Capone?!

Steroids are not socially acceptable. Regardless of the arguments, the mass majority of people really don't give a crap and would never take them. The mass majority, 65% of Americans now? Are overweight anyway.

While tobacco and alcohol do cause damage if used and abused, the whole politics behind them just change the field.

Sometimes justice is what you can afford. A tiny supplement company cannot afford the justice of the tobacco industry. That is just how it goes.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (DrumProdigy83)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:38:12 GMT

That's exactly my point (I hope you weren't being sarcastic!) - but PHs are still legal, steroids are the only illegal supplements I believe. It is messed up but I think proportionally more people who do steroids will end up abusing it versus the number of alcohol drinkers and cigarette smokers. Cigarettes affect everyone (1st and 2nd hand smoke) and are very addicting which is why they are being cracked down on so much. Alcohol can be very dangerous, but I think a lot more people who drink alcohol are able to keep it under control. Just as an example (numbers are being pulled out the air...) we'll just say that 20% of people who drink at any given time will seriously abuse the substance, whereas 75% of people who use steroids at any given time will seriously abuse it... even if there are 20,000,000 alcohol drinkers and only 10,000 steroid users.... the ratio of abusers to non-abusers of steroids is far greater than that of alcohol drinkers, which makes it illegal (I think).

Just as a side note, I'd use steroids as a kind of catalyst if I was going to use it at all. I already know where I want to end up, but with steroids I'd be able to get their faster and possibly even end up stronger at the same time. But because of my age and my already high levels of testosterone I think maybe I won't use it... The fact that it is illegal is the biggest killer for me. If it were legal I'd almost definitely give it a shot (no pun intended). I am not a law-breaker and I don't want to go to jail, and on top of that I don't want to endanger my body and health. You guys say I can achieve the same results without using steroids so I'll give that a shot first. I've been told it takes 3 months to notice a physical difference, but that must be just a size difference because I notice after even just a month or two of steady lifting that I am already quite a bit stronger and more defined... nothing tremendous, but it is quite significant I'd say. As much as I dread lifting, once the ball gets rolling it gets easier / more fun to do.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Elephant77)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:15:50 GMT

There illegal because too many people would abuse them... Kinnda like Ciggaretts, Alcohol, Pain Medication, Sleep Aids... wait a second all those things are legal! What's wrong with our country! Hell any moron can buy a gun legally but cant buy a PH? How many gun-murders were there last year? How many smoking deaths? How many alcohol related deaths? We got our prioritys a little confused here...

RE: Unsure of what to do... (cpl)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 17:13:46 GMT

Are they illegal, if so, why- That's a whole different story. Things like alcohol and tobacco are just legalized drugs- There's no benefit, lots of dangers, but you're able to buy both at your local corner store. Why? Big money. They're more socially acceptable poisons. Besides all that, steroids are illegal, plain and simple- And for damn good reason, if you ask me. Both people I know who have tried them almost ruined their marriages because of the rage, and their bodies because of overuse. They're both smart guys too- But let's face it, anyone who looks into roids is looking for fast gains. Once you get some of those fast gains, you're going to want them faster- So you tell yourself you're going to do a heavy cycle just this once. Screw that.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (DrumProdigy83)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:54:01 GMT

So steroids aren't all too bad afterall? Are they legal in the UK do you know? I found a UK bodybuilding forum and they talk about how to use needles and stuff, and there are a LOT of guys who do "gear". i am just curious because this board doesn't tolerate steroid discussions like that. If they are legal there, why are they illegal here? Are they legal anywhere else? I think steroids are illegal because they are often time abused and this is something that can have devastating effects if it is abused. But then I think about alcohol, which was banned, and now it is legal again. When alcohol is abused it can cause great harm to more than just the person drinking it... Is it because you don't have to drink it? Alcohol is not beneficial in any way to the human body... the barley in beer and the grapes in wine are the only two healthy ingredients... I don't know I am just trying to figure out the logic behind, there is probably just something I am missing.............::confused::

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Powerhaus)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:35:40 GMT

So what eactly is it you are asking?

"Should I take steroids?" No.

"Should I take pro-hormones?" Probably not. (I personally don't think they are anything but marketing hype)

"Should I eat right and exericise and put my life in such a perspective that I have a healthy self-image and see working out as part of the greater whole that is my life?" Absolutely.

No, your friends' livers and hearts are not exploding like balloons, they're not wearing bras, and they're not bald (at least not yet). This is one reason why I think exaggerating the risks of steroids to scare kids out of taking them backfires. The truth is the risks aren't huge overnight, but they increase with how much you take and how long you take them. 30 years down the road you might rather have a slim body that works real well to a big bulky one that's got some problems. So while you may be envious of your friends who are using illegal synthetic hormones, don't let that make you think they're totally safe. When you hit your 30's, you'll be a heck of a lot more worried aobut the size for your belly than the size of your biceps.

RE: Unsure of what to do... (DrumProdigy83)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:57:39 GMT

Thanks CPL, that was a very good post. I hear what you are saying, but it seems maybe I was a little unclear about some things... Whether I take PHs or not, I would still give 100% in the gym. I actually just started my weekly workout regime today, which goes 4 days per week for however many months. Eventually I'll kind of change it up a little bit, but I posted my schedule in one of the earlier posts on this thread. I just bought two tubs of Mega Whey Extreme that I am going to start taking tomorrow.

I don't know specific numbers of really any of those questions. I just used a caloric calculator to determine the amount of calories I take in daily (my weight isn't changing) given my age, metabolism, body fat %, etc etc, and it came out to 1760 calories per day. When I was lifting (sophomore in college... now I'm a senior) I was eating at least 5 meals per day, mostly meats, fish, pasta, whole grains, milk, orange juice.... Things that were healthy but also high in calories and/or protein. I was also taking that weight gainer shake and creatine. I was very adamant about my eating and workout habits and quite dedicated to both as well. The gains stopped coming when the classes started getting more difficult and time consuming. As important as consistency is, my grades are more important to me right now. I remember having two or three 10+ page papers due in a couple bio classes... it was a nightmare.

As far as lifting now.... I am eating healthier than before and also more than before, plus I am going to be supplementing with whey protein everyday (as per the directions). I am working out 4 days per week and pretty much mimicking what i was doing sophomore year except this time without creatine. I give 100% no matter what... Phs or no PHs, I want to get the most out of what I'm doing. In the fall of 2006 is when I am planning on starting medical school, which I've heard will take up every minute of my life for the duration I am there. Powerhaus said his brother just graduated med school and he lifted while he was there, which I kind of had a feeling would be possible, so apparently I will be able to keep lifting but probably not as "hardcore" as I am able to now. Worse case scenario is that I lose some mass and strength but still keep myself in good shape. And regardless of whether or not I lift in med school, once I am out I definitely definitely will be going to a gym. Since I don't know what the deal will be in medical school the here and now is what I really want to focus on. Everybody has been saying diet and consistency are the two most important things to getting bigger (but not the ONLY two) so those are what I am going to focus on. Like someone else said, gaining weight isn't brain surgery, it's just knowledge and discipline.

I am going to just going to see how things go for now, but if I were to use PHs it would not be to overcompensate for something else I am not doing. I don't want it to take the place of something, I want it to SUPPLEMENT my workout so that my gains are even BIGGER... I want to see gains now working 100% and eating right and all that, but if I still don't develop the physique quite what I'm looking for maybe I will turn to PHs for additional help. But the one thing I want to reiterate is the fact that I am not a slacker and will not slack in anyway shape or form because of the introduction of PHs or steroids into my routine. If anything, the results will be so large that I will stop with the PHs or steroids. I already have a perceived physical goal... lifting is not something I particularly enjoy doing lol, but I will do what's necessary to get bigger and look better...

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Powerhaus)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:42:47 GMT

Amen cpl

RE: Unsure of what to do... (cpl)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:55:22 GMT

I have patience, but I just don't have a lot of time. I can and will still lift, but not as much as I need to in order to put on the weight I want.

Okay, despite the situation you described, I have to say this still sounds like impatience to me, to be totally honest- I'm not trying to knock you here, just point something out. I honestly think you could seriously benefit from changing how you look at your whole situation- You mentioned you would work harder if you were taking PH's or whatever. You also mentioned you were going to stop working out sooner or later- The bottom line is, if you're only going to push yourself while you're on these supps, you're most likely not going to get what you want. Also, if you've already got it in your head that you're going to quit less than two years from now for whatever reason, then there's no reason to start at all.
Look at it this way- If you know you'd work out harder while on PH's, then you're obviously not giving it your all now. If you're not training to the best of your ability right now, then there's not much point in taking PH's- You should consider stuff like that when you're giving A HUNDRED PER CENT in every area- Training, nutrition, rest- And you still want that edge. Can you tell us what your caloric expenditure per day is, and how many calories you're eating above that in order to bulk? Can you tell us how many grams of protein/carbs and fats are in each of your six meals every day, and what types they are- Even better, tell us WHY you have to eat those certain types of protein, carbs and fat? A more general question- When your gains stopped coming, how many calories a day did you up your intake by?
As far as you dropping your training when you start school- This sort of thing is a lifestyle really, and no matter what else is going on around you, you have to make time for it. Personally, I can say it's part of my life- Just like brushing my teeth in the morning, jumping in the shower, etc- I think most people here can say the same thing, it becomes a part of your lifestyle that would be hard to give up for any reason. Sure, life can get busy- I'm working full time and going to school myself, besides spending a good deal of time moderating this site- But I'd never stop brushing my teeth or showering, and by the same token, I'd never stop working out.

Sorry if I come off sounding a little critical, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they're going to work out as a temporary thing, with a quit date in mind- Even if you're going to pick it up after school's done with, which is great, it still sounds a little weird to me.
But read the first part of my post and ask yourself- Are you really doing all you can without the prohormones? Even if you decide to take them, you still need to do all that other stuff to get the best possible results- So why not start now? See how far you get without them?

RE: Unsure of what to do... (Marc David)

Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:18:14 GMT

There's a formula in this eReport that will help you a bit determining calories and such.

Something like Fitday.com will tell you how close you are to each goal.

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