Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:56:59 GMT

Please feel free to ask about any odd comment that is not clear or whatever...
I am happy to put anything in more useful terms!

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (Nm0ney34)

Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:20:16 GMT

When it comes to nutrition I try to keep it as simple as possible. Sometimes it gets overwhelming

This carb cycling is going pretty good for cutting, but I had no idea about the bulk...I know your supposed to take in more carbs while bulking. And thank you for explaining the strength part!

Maybe someday ill be able to fully understand everythign in your posts/forum topics, ill get there eventually. haha

Thanks again!

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Mon, 14 Jul 2008 23:00:59 GMT

Yes, low cabs will = low strength.

Also, carbs are a large part of gaining mass and strength...as well as a key part of sports performance (i.e. football.)

Can you cycle and bulk and perform well? Yes, but not with that low a level of carbs.

Cycle around your training and games.
They should be adequately high for pre during and post training and game days.

But on non... pre during and post training and game days you can cycle the carbs down for a tweak.

Carbs = energy and prime growth...be careful how you handle them

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (Nm0ney34)

Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:52:27 GMT

Hi Dan,

I had a question or 2 for ya if its ok.

Right now im in a cutting phase and have successfully gone from 238 to about 225 right now. I started to do kind of a carb cycle, mon-fri is low carbish around 100-125 and sat sun...I havent really kept count but its much higher I would estimate probably around 300.

Im going to start another bulk phase after this, and was wondering if carb cycling can work while on a bulk. My last bulk was a disaster, I never kept track of calories and put on a lot more fat then I wanted.

Also, im just curious but I have noticed my strength has gone down a bit...while on a cut is it normal to experience such a lose in strength? It worries me a bit...ultimately I care about strength over mass, but there is a "look" I do want to achieve. I dont want to just be huge with a good amount of fat and strong, I do want to have a decent definition.

My ultimate goal for now is to get to 215-220ish and around 10-12%. I plan on playing semi-pro football again next year.

Thanks in advance, I really love reading what you have to say.

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:25:05 GMT

ORIGINAL: David1991

Dan im sorry but i can't take this anymore
5 weeks ago i was getting horrible results and couldn't stand it. since then i've tried upping my carbs and lowering my protein like u said. ive been trying to ignore it and not think about it but ive been getting consistently worse. from 5 weeks ago ive gained 2.1 pounds of fat and lost 1.1lb. of muscle. i know ur an expert and what ur saying is working for u but something isn't right here. i mean my nutrition is perfect and training is hard and progressive, everything is in place. and i can't see a change to something like 40/40/20 being that much of a change either. i just have no idea whats wrong and i want to take ur advice because i know it works for u and i know u know what ur talking about but i feel horrible every time i look at or think about these results.
i like bodybuilding, but not when i just get worse at it every week. im not trying to make u some counselor or something that listens to my problems...but i seriously dont think i can stand more than another week or two of this. i would think even if i gained a lot of fat i would at least gain a lot of muscle with it too with the higher carbs....

sorry for ranting but i feel like crap right now....

edit: looking back at this i dont mean to sound so drama-queenish (for complete lack of a better word lol) but im hoping u can see where im coming from.

I understand, sticking points are frustrating. You got stuck and were afraid to switch dramatically and change your body's responses. We all do that.

(P.S. It is not that this formula works for me, it has worked for thousands of clients trained by one group I worked with.)

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Sun, 13 Apr 2008 21:20:53 GMT

does that basically mean that i might not gain optimally if i try to stay under 10% but if i stay there long enough my body will acllimate to it and i will be able to gain optimally at that level?

More likely you need to find the point where it is not resistant RIGHT now, then gradually lower the BF set point that growth is optimal at!

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (David1991)

Sat, 15 Mar 2008 04:58:11 GMT

Dan im sorry but i can't take this anymore
5 weeks ago i was getting horrible results and couldn't stand it. since then i've tried upping my carbs and lowering my protein like u said. ive been trying to ignore it and not think about it but ive been getting consistently worse. from 5 weeks ago ive gained 2.1 pounds of fat and lost 1.1lb. of muscle. i know ur an expert and what ur saying is working for u but something isn't right here. i mean my nutrition is perfect and training is hard and progressive, everything is in place. and i can't see a change to something like 40/40/20 being that much of a change either. i just have no idea whats wrong and i want to take ur advice because i know it works for u and i know u know what ur talking about but i feel horrible every time i look at or think about these results.
i like bodybuilding, but not when i just get worse at it every week. im not trying to make u some counselor or something that listens to my problems...but i seriously dont think i can stand more than another week or two of this. i would think even if i gained a lot of fat i would at least gain a lot of muscle with it too with the higher carbs....

sorry for ranting but i feel like crap right now....

edit: looking back at this i dont mean to sound so drama-queenish (for complete lack of a better word lol) but im hoping u can see where im coming from.

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (David1991)

Thu, 13 Mar 2008 11:57:20 GMT

- so should i be expecting more muscle gain in the future if i stay consistent with my current diet/training (with progression)?

ORIGINAL: danmirage
Each body has a comfort point at which it likes to hold fat and lets you gain muscle optimally.

We control that point over time...by eating balanced and not starving the body very often. Using diet to drop fat and then eating balanced again...so the body acclimates to the new BF. Get it?

does that basically mean that i might not gain optimally if i try to stay under 10% but if i stay there long enough my body will acllimate to it and i will be able to gain optimally at that level?

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:28:43 GMT

D...the only things that is not progressing is how you are seeing it.
More carbs are one driving factor to gains, including muscle.
So if you increase your carbs, you increase your gains per calorie...so you can gain with fewer calories.

Your activity lever sees you resistance train 3x a week and then train every day with other training.
There is the trick. Lots of Cardio can burn muscle.

I know that you come from having more BF than you wanted. But you are in control of it now. You know how to lose BF.
Now you want to learn how to gain muscle optimally with your body.

As for BF...
Depends on the specific goal.

If you are at 160 15% (24 lbs BF) and want to be 160 and 10%, (16 lbs BF) then that is one thing.
If you are at 150 and 15% (22 lbs BF) and want 220 at 12% (26 pounds BF) that is entirely different.

The general answer is usually that you cycle, you do a leaning round whenever you feel you need to to shake things up.
You stay real. You are not going to gain optimally at 9% bodyfat without gaining some BF. Each body has a comfort point at which it likes to hold fat and lets you gain muscle optimally.

We control that point over time...by eating balanced and not starving the body very often. Using diet to drop fat and then eating balanced again...so the body acclimates to the new BF. Get it?

When you lean, you get to change the routine, the diet...then you take a week off and let things rest, and pick up again maybe at strength and then move into hypertrophy and mass again...

...wash...rinse...repeat....

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (David1991)

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:59:03 GMT

ORIGINAL: danmirage

Of course, when you lose muscle, its just muscle...but when you gain..its only water...!

PLEASE!
Volumizing (increaseing tissue size...primarily with fluid) is one of the first steps to larger muscles!

well im assuming it was water weight because of the extra carbs. also i normally weight myself after going to the bathroom, this morning i didnt.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

This is a good sign. A small change in calories stopped your weight loss and muscle loss.
That shows you tapped the right hormones. You are not accustomed to them, but those are the ones that make you grow.

Now pick your head up, train those muscles, and watch them get bigger!

If you feel, in a week that the gains are too fast...just scale back 500 calories across the board.
See how this goes for a few weeks. You should be gaining more muscle and adding calories back in no time.

well i'll see how it goes but this is really startng to affect me, ive never gone this long in the opposite direction of my goals. its just depressing i guess but im trying not to think about the negatives, and i am trying to think about the good in it. its hard to see how this could be good though.

let me see if i can understand this. ur saying that by raising calories/carbs i "tapped into" a certain hormone so that i will now gain weight? and that even though i gained a lot of fat i can now gain muscle?
why the large fat gain at all though? i mean i expected fat gain but i was really expecting a good amount of muscle this week with the increase in sets and higher carbs.

if i take away 500 calories across the board wouldnt that just put me way back? i mean i only added 300 this week. and if i took it away evenly that would be about 240 from carbs and 260 from fat and protein.

on a good note tennis has been fun lol

just an aside, in ur opinion what bf% do u think someone should reach before they cut? (i know that depends on preference, if they compete, etc..., but in general...or what u do)

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 06:49:38 GMT

ORIGINAL: David1991

from one week ago today
gained: 1.53lb of fat
gained: 0.22 of LBM which im guessing is water weight from the extra carbs

Of course, when you lose muscle, its just muscle...but when you gain..its only water...!

PLEASE!
Volumizing (increaseing tissue size...primarily with fluid) is one of the first steps to larger muscles!

This is a good sign. A small change in calories stopped your weight loss and muscle loss.
That shows you tapped the right hormones. You are not accustomed to them, but those are the ones that make you grow.

Now pick your head up, train those muscles, and watch them get bigger!

If you feel, in a week that the gains are too fast...just scale back 500 calories across the board.
See how this goes for a few weeks. You should be gaining more muscle and adding calories back in no time.

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (David1991)

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:13:30 GMT

from one week ago today
gained: 1.53lb of fat
gained: 0.22 of LBM which im guessing is water weight from the extra carbs

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (David1991)

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:43:56 GMT

well ive only really set short and long term goals.
short term: getting back to my Max LBM of 142.5lb.

long term: 225 at 10% bf

i would like to get to 180 at 10% body fat but im not willing to go to 195-200 in one go because i know by that point my bodyfat will get upto about 20% or higher (unless i could find a way to stay lean which doesn't seem to be something i can do). thats the reason i first said "cut once i get to 15%bf", because i'd like to bulk as long as i can but once i gain too much fat i'll have too cut.

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (danmirage)

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:32:56 GMT

1) it helps in attaining the goal
2) Since your goal was muscle gain..."ive been more focused on keeping bf% low over gaining LBM"...are your focus and your goal at odds?
3) Success visualization as an act, that is, something you do actively AM and PM and passively throughout the day is different from focusing on the sport, different from "i do focus a lot on it....and occasionally visualize"

4) "once i get to 15% or so my cut starts and i want to gain the most muscle i can in that time"

That is backward.
Your goal is based on gaining fat!!
If your goal is to gain fat, we are going about this all wrong!

How about setting a muscle gaining goal?

If your end goal is to be 180 at 10%
Then you are talking about gaining up, to end the gain close to 195-200 lbs at some Bf% and cutting down to close to 180.

Or you can do it in steps, this would be using MANY MANY steps...150 lbs LBM at x%? THEN cut. 160 lbs LBM. THEN cut. 170 lbs LBM. THEN cut. 180 lbs LBM. THEN cut. 190 lbs LBM. THEN cut to 180 at 10%.

I prefer to do it in fewer steps myself, depending on the time needed to attain the goal.
But it is nice to have cutting interspersed with the gaining sometimes because you can modulate protein and calories and really work the transition times. Though, you can do that when you take a week off as well.

RE: Awesome Muscle Building Topic #24: BULKING Part II (David1991)

Sat, 08 Mar 2008 19:41:24 GMT

ORIGINAL: danmirage

So you are currently right around the max LBM you have ever seen.

Additionally, your FM is perhaps low (by your body's standards.)

You focus more of your thought/mental energy on the concern for gaining fat than muscle.
I think it may be time for you to do some real mental work.
How does that work? I will give you the reader's digest version:
You surround yourself with imagery that supports your goal.
You spend time each day thinking about success.
When you go to bed, you visualize success and be grateful and ecstatic that you will get it.
When you wake, take a moment to again visualize success and be grateful and ecstatic that you will get it.
Speak only in terms of what you want to attain and your gratitude for attaining it.

Don't say that you are not getting better just because your Lean mass is not rising!
You are in better shape now than ever. You know more about your own fitness now than ever!
If you gained 5 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of muscle, you know how to lose the fat!
You are in control.

Now is the time to focus on gaining some more muscle and setting a new top LBM for yourself.

This sport is complex..there are many things that can set us back, some of them powerful and subtle...

well believe me i spend ALOT of time thinking about gaining muscle.

the last 4 weeks or so i've been reading more articles than i have since i started out...i've been listening to dan gastelu and other BBing related podcasts since i got my ipod (also 4 or so weeks ago)
i try to focus on my goals of gaining LBM, and occasionally visualize

the only thing i've noticed as far as mentality goes is that ive been more focused on keeping bf% low over gaining LBM.

but as i said, i do focus a lot on it.

one of the reasons i've been stressing so much about the fat gain is because its like a timer for my bulking. once i get to 15% or so my cut starts and i want to gain the most muscle i can in that time

something i've always wondered. when experts say to "focus on ur fitness goals, visualize, etc..." is that for the person to stay motivated and work hard or does that physically help ur attempts to gain muscle/lose fat? i dont have motivation problems and always push as hard as necessary but if it actually makes a physical change somehow then i guess i could do even more "mental work" towards my goal