17 HD

RE: 17 HD (lakers124)

Wed, 08 Nov 2006 08:41:49 GMT

sorry for bringin up 17hd in the first place, lol

RE: 17 HD (VaughnTrue)

Wed, 08 Nov 2006 03:43:23 GMT

ORIGINAL: teamGNC

well i would never drop 50 bucks for a bottle of vit C dude...thats insane you can pick up some good Ester C for like 10bucks. And just so ya know ( not to be a dick anymore ) that ascorbic acid is Vit C and calcium ascorbate is Ester C... Citric acid is not Vitamin C..its simply a preservative. As far as the ecdysterone is concerned i personally have seen a few products out right now ( including 17hd ) that have the ecdysterone in it. I believe Hi tech pharmaceuticals makes a few products with it in it and from what i've read im a believer. but yea i mean ill push 17hd forever b/c it worked great for me and all my friends who've taken it but everything aint for everybody.

right, youve seen ecdysterone...but beta? what is that even?

RE: 17 HD (Coulaid)

Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:26:57 GMT

When i saw that on bb.com i actually LOL'd. Man there are better test boosters out there. Look at andro's and Dan's comments. Also Placebo effect can make some terrible supps look great.

ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue

woooohooo did you just make my day teamgnc!!

have you done ANY research on this product? apparently not. what you felt was the placebo effect coupled with some good vitamins and herbs. Pull your head out of your ass, and here...I'll be glad to bring you to school.

** Androgenic's review of 17-HD **

I will explain how this product bothers me on an unparalleled scale. It is what is wrong with the industry. Shawn Ray uses it…hmm. This product is deceptive, trying to sound like a prohormone or even a potent steroid. The company has stated they did not decide on the name or try and be deceptive it was what the “scientist” (seriously) named it...so that's what they went with...HAHAHA! Even if they have a "scientist" of some sort, which they probably don't, that guy is not in control of their financial fate in the naming/marketing/advertising of the product.

17-HD (17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone): To review the choice of name here, by marketing NOT SCIENCE…let’s review.

1.)17 – As is c17a, the 17th carbon at the alpha position is where anabolic steroids have their potency and toxicity and often is where a methyl group is as attached.
2.)Halo – Besides being a great X-Box game, it is another group of steroids such as the popular halotestin, also halodrol is quite popular in the prohormone world.
3.)Methyl – See #1. Also – see buzz word of the year (#2 is ethyl ester)
4.)Dianadrone – Diana(bol) aka methandrostenolone, comes pretty close to hitting the whole 17-HD name is one fall swoop.
5.)17-HD, or 17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone, sounds like a chemical compound doesn’t it? Sounds like one heck of a methylated potent oral steroid. Right?

Guess what? It’s not. Matter of fact it’s just a bunch of herbs. I’d say this is pretty deceptive so far, but lets get into the useless or even counterproductive part.

Here is the ingredients according to the write-up:

17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg
Ge Gan (pueraria lobota)
Smilax Officinalis
N.O. Oliliacae

Betaecdysterone 100mg
Wild yam extract 100mg
Glabra 100mg
Phosphatidyl choline 50mg
Citric acid 50mg

__________________________________________________ ________________
We'll start with wild yam and go from there.
Wild Yam is great at regulating estrogen...there's a potent benefit! And I will quote:

"Wild yam has been used for menstrual cramps or pain, menopausal symptoms, rheumatic conditions, and gallbladder complaints. Wild yam is sometimes suggested as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy. While components of wild yam are chemically manufactured into the hormones progesterone or estrogen, the body is unable to use wild yam in the same way."
http://www.drugs.com/MTM/wild_yam.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Ge Gen is aka kudzu and I quote:

"Chemicals extracted from kudzu include isoflavones known as daidzein, daidzin, genistein, and puerarin. Isoflavones are plant chemicals that have estrogenic and antioxidant effects."
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...Ge+Gen,00.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

How 'bout Smilax? Let's go for the trifecta shall we? Smilax officinalis is also known as sarsparilla.
I'll quote again...

"In the United States, sarsaparilla is sold primarily as an oral remedy for skin conditions such as psoriasis. It is believed that chemicals in sarsaparilla may attach to endotoxins (the remnants of bacterial cells) that are common in individuals with psoriasis and certain other conditions. By eliminating or reducing the amounts of endotoxins in the body, sarsaparilla may help to relieve the condition.

Orally, sarsaparilla also has weak diuretic and laxative effects, which may make it useful in promoting the loss of excess water from the body and also in treating mild constipation. It may also promote sweating, which may help to reduce fever. Additionally, sarsaparilla contains chemicals that may act as a mild expectorant – a substance that may loosen bronchial mucus and promote coughing. However, none of these effects has been verified through clinical studies and they may vary greatly depending on the amounts and type of sarsaparilla that is used. "
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...inalis,00.html
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Hmm...well we've established it raises estrogen, has laxative effects...is there anything else this miracle supplement can do for me you ask?

Well I am glad you asked...Glabra is cute renaming (as every ingredient is and the product itself) of Glycyrrhiza glabra, aka Licorice. Licorice you say? Yes, THE ultimate bodybuilding supplement. And I will quote:

"Licorice is also a mild laxative. Large doses of glycyrrhizinic acid and glycyrrhetinic acid in liquorice extract can lead to hypokalemia and serious increases in blood pressure, a syndrome known as apparent mineralocorticoid excess. These side effects stem from the inhibition of the enzyme 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (type 2) and subsequent increase in activity of cortisol on the kidney. 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase normally inactivates cortisol in the kidney; thus, licorice's inactivation of this enzyme makes the concentration of cortisol appear to increase. Cortisol acts at the same receptor as the hormone aldosterone in the kidney; thus, the effects mimic aldosterone excess, although aldosterone remains low or normal during licorice overdose. Cortisol does not actually increase either; however, its activity in the kidney effectively increases due to the disabling of this enzyme. To decrease the chances of these serious side effects, deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) preparations are available.

Licorice affects the body's endocrine system. It can lower the amount of serum testosterone, but whether it affects the amount of free testosterone is unclear. A PubMed search for licorice AND testosterone will provide additional information."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice

Well, cool, Licorice decrease testosterone, increases blood pressure and may increase catabolic hormones. Oh yeah, and again its a laxative.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

So lets tally up the results: we got elevated estrogen, decreased testosterone, increased cortisol, increased blood pressure, and 2 laxatives.

Lastly, there is one ingredient listed that, in fact, does not exist…so I can’t tell you what it is other than it is an herb. N.O. (sounds like Nitric Oxide – Buzz Word!) Olilicae. Sorry. Given the collective data one WHAT IS IN THERE, I wouldn’t hope for much.

Well the only thing of benefit I see here is the 50mg of Vitamin C (citric acid), which doesn't even meet the lowly RDA. Sweet formulation. Really.

Good luck to anyone who uses this. The supplement industry loves you. OWNED???? YES I THINK SO

RE: 17 HD (teamGNC)

Tue, 07 Nov 2006 20:10:22 GMT

well i would never drop 50 bucks for a bottle of vit C dude...thats insane you can pick up some good Ester C for like 10bucks. And just so ya know ( not to be a dick anymore ) that ascorbic acid is Vit C and calcium ascorbate is Ester C... Citric acid is not Vitamin C..its simply a preservative. As far as the ecdysterone is concerned i personally have seen a few products out right now ( including 17hd ) that have the ecdysterone in it. I believe Hi tech pharmaceuticals makes a few products with it in it and from what i've read im a believer. but yea i mean ill push 17hd forever b/c it worked great for me and all my friends who've taken it but everything aint for everybody.

RE: 17 HD (VaughnTrue)

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 13:37:27 GMT

yes, i copied it...and i included the owners name and title. so easy there tough guy, not like i said "hey...check out what I just wrote!"

ok, lets look at the other information,
"Betaecdysterone 100mg "

first off, the only ecdy that has ANY ability to help people as of right now is Ecdysterone which is found in E-bol, and to be honest, I don't believe even THAT does squat. Ecdy was released in the 70's and it flopped due to no effects, it's no different now. Ecdy is a PLANT STEROL...as in its not complete, humans cant use it.

and in all honesty...im trying to HELP you to not spend $50 on a bottle of 50mg Vitamin C.

RE: 17 HD (TangledThorns)

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 13:04:02 GMT

I tried the 17HD without a NO and didnt attain the intensity effect that I got from the 1st week of taking the stuff. Did it wear off? Seemed too intense for it just to be a placebo effect. Anyways, I dont recommend it at this time.

RE: 17 HD (teamGNC)

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:59:24 GMT

Hmm well i can see that its taken you a lot of time to copy and paste information that you gathered not from your own knowledge but from some other websites. Must have taken you quite awhile ...now let me break somethin down for ya...CITRIC acid is a preservative buddy. Okay so with that being said nowhere in the entire formulation is there any VITAMINS..ASCORBIC ACID is VITAMIN C!..and no it is not a placebo affect..i know very well what a placebo affect is and it is not that. Oh and if u dont mind go ahead and look up beta ecdysterone and tell everybody what it says since you neglected to mention that part of the formula.
OWNED?............i think not.

RE: 17 HD (VaughnTrue)

Mon, 06 Nov 2006 07:11:51 GMT

woooohooo did you just make my day teamgnc!!

have you done ANY research on this product? apparently not. what you felt was the placebo effect coupled with some good vitamins and herbs. Pull your head out of your ass, and here...I'll be glad to bring you to school.

** Androgenic's review of 17-HD **

I will explain how this product bothers me on an unparalleled scale. It is what is wrong with the industry. Shawn Ray uses it…hmm. This product is deceptive, trying to sound like a prohormone or even a potent steroid. The company has stated they did not decide on the name or try and be deceptive it was what the “scientist” (seriously) named it...so that's what they went with...HAHAHA! Even if they have a "scientist" of some sort, which they probably don't, that guy is not in control of their financial fate in the naming/marketing/advertising of the product.

17-HD (17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone): To review the choice of name here, by marketing NOT SCIENCE…let’s review.

1.)17 – As is c17a, the 17th carbon at the alpha position is where anabolic steroids have their potency and toxicity and often is where a methyl group is as attached.
2.)Halo – Besides being a great X-Box game, it is another group of steroids such as the popular halotestin, also halodrol is quite popular in the prohormone world.
3.)Methyl – See #1. Also – see buzz word of the year (#2 is ethyl ester)
4.)Dianadrone – Diana(bol) aka methandrostenolone, comes pretty close to hitting the whole 17-HD name is one fall swoop.
5.)17-HD, or 17-Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone, sounds like a chemical compound doesn’t it? Sounds like one heck of a methylated potent oral steroid. Right?

Guess what? It’s not. Matter of fact it’s just a bunch of herbs. I’d say this is pretty deceptive so far, but lets get into the useless or even counterproductive part.

Here is the ingredients according to the write-up:

17- Halo-Methyl-Dianadrone: 400mg
Ge Gan (pueraria lobota)
Smilax Officinalis
N.O. Oliliacae

Betaecdysterone 100mg
Wild yam extract 100mg
Glabra 100mg
Phosphatidyl choline 50mg
Citric acid 50mg

__________________________________________________ ________________
We'll start with wild yam and go from there.
Wild Yam is great at regulating estrogen...there's a potent benefit! And I will quote:

"Wild yam has been used for menstrual cramps or pain, menopausal symptoms, rheumatic conditions, and gallbladder complaints. Wild yam is sometimes suggested as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy. While components of wild yam are chemically manufactured into the hormones progesterone or estrogen, the body is unable to use wild yam in the same way."
http://www.drugs.com/MTM/wild_yam.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Ge Gen is aka kudzu and I quote:

"Chemicals extracted from kudzu include isoflavones known as daidzein, daidzin, genistein, and puerarin. Isoflavones are plant chemicals that have estrogenic and antioxidant effects."
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...Ge+Gen,00.html

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

How 'bout Smilax? Let's go for the trifecta shall we? Smilax officinalis is also known as sarsparilla.
I'll quote again...

"In the United States, sarsaparilla is sold primarily as an oral remedy for skin conditions such as psoriasis. It is believed that chemicals in sarsaparilla may attach to endotoxins (the remnants of bacterial cells) that are common in individuals with psoriasis and certain other conditions. By eliminating or reducing the amounts of endotoxins in the body, sarsaparilla may help to relieve the condition.

Orally, sarsaparilla also has weak diuretic and laxative effects, which may make it useful in promoting the loss of excess water from the body and also in treating mild constipation. It may also promote sweating, which may help to reduce fever. Additionally, sarsaparilla contains chemicals that may act as a mild expectorant – a substance that may loosen bronchial mucus and promote coughing. However, none of these effects has been verified through clinical studies and they may vary greatly depending on the amounts and type of sarsaparilla that is used. "
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/Her...inalis,00.html
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Hmm...well we've established it raises estrogen, has laxative effects...is there anything else this miracle supplement can do for me you ask?

Well I am glad you asked...Glabra is cute renaming (as every ingredient is and the product itself) of Glycyrrhiza glabra, aka Licorice. Licorice you say? Yes, THE ultimate bodybuilding supplement. And I will quote:

"Licorice is also a mild laxative. Large doses of glycyrrhizinic acid and glycyrrhetinic acid in liquorice extract can lead to hypokalemia and serious increases in blood pressure, a syndrome known as apparent mineralocorticoid excess. These side effects stem from the inhibition of the enzyme 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (type 2) and subsequent increase in activity of cortisol on the kidney. 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase normally inactivates cortisol in the kidney; thus, licorice's inactivation of this enzyme makes the concentration of cortisol appear to increase. Cortisol acts at the same receptor as the hormone aldosterone in the kidney; thus, the effects mimic aldosterone excess, although aldosterone remains low or normal during licorice overdose. Cortisol does not actually increase either; however, its activity in the kidney effectively increases due to the disabling of this enzyme. To decrease the chances of these serious side effects, deglycyrrhizinated licorice (DGL) preparations are available.

Licorice affects the body's endocrine system. It can lower the amount of serum testosterone, but whether it affects the amount of free testosterone is unclear. A PubMed search for licorice AND testosterone will provide additional information."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice

Well, cool, Licorice decrease testosterone, increases blood pressure and may increase catabolic hormones. Oh yeah, and again its a laxative.
__________________________________________________ ________________________________

So lets tally up the results: we got elevated estrogen, decreased testosterone, increased cortisol, increased blood pressure, and 2 laxatives.

Lastly, there is one ingredient listed that, in fact, does not exist…so I can’t tell you what it is other than it is an herb. N.O. (sounds like Nitric Oxide – Buzz Word!) Olilicae. Sorry. Given the collective data one WHAT IS IN THERE, I wouldn’t hope for much.

Well the only thing of benefit I see here is the 50mg of Vitamin C (citric acid), which doesn't even meet the lowly RDA. Sweet formulation. Really.

Good luck to anyone who uses this. The supplement industry loves you. OWNED???? YES I THINK SO

RE: 17 HD (teamGNC)

Sun, 05 Nov 2006 22:46:08 GMT

Dont dog it unless you've tried it, vaughn.. the **** works

RE: 17 HD (VaughnTrue)

Sun, 05 Nov 2006 10:50:40 GMT

17hd is utter and complete nonsense. might as well go chew on some leaves. it will do nothing for you

RE: 17 HD (TangledThorns)

Sun, 05 Nov 2006 10:27:17 GMT

ORIGINAL: GyM RaT

I heard that NO products decrease the effectiveness of 17-hd....dont really know why

Hmmm, that could be my problem as I take a NO with 17-HD. Damn, so now I need to choose... I love the pumps from a NO but I also like the intensity of 17HD.

RE: 17 HD (toolman4052)

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 23:43:41 GMT

yeahp

RE: 17 HD (chrisshepherd)

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 23:27:57 GMT

toolman I think I know why your laughing and I agree.

RE: 17 HD (toolman4052)

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 23:20:27 GMT

hahaha

RE: 17 HD (teamGNC)

Thu, 02 Nov 2006 20:33:26 GMT

Yes you dont want to do the 17hd with any type of stimulant pre workout b/c it will inhibit its affects. I used 17hd for about a month and saw HUGE strength and intensity gains. Stuff is awesome IMO.