Football Question

RE: Football Question (Gort)

Sun, 02 Jul 2006 00:49:52 GMT

ORIGINAL: Reset

its is basically deadlift but you lift the bar all the way up to your shoulders.. exploding through with your legs and end up with your wrists back and your arms vertical.

o the way i do em is i do that, and then squat all the way down and then go back up

RE: Football Question (cpl)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:52:07 GMT

As someone who has trained for verts, I think it's essential to use plyometrics- Even in the beginning. GLD's right- The best way to train for a specific motion or sport is to perform that motion/sport. Naturally, you'll have to build a solid foundation- But there's no reason why plyos can't be part of that initial training, provided you're learning the right way, and being taught how to avoid injury.
As with weight training- When starting out with weights, it's not necessary to have someone build up a base with other activities. You simply start out light- It's the best way to get used to the correct form, and build a solid base to work from as the weight increases. With plyos, you start out "light" too- Don't push yourself to the limit when starting, because you don't know your own body's limits yet. Simply learn the proper form for the different plyo exercises by toning down the jumps- Don't try to go for your max heights right out of the gate. The goal is to introduce your muscles and joints to this new form of training with proper explosion/landing technique- Slowly.
Sure, there are going to be beginners out there who do it wrong- Same thing as someone just starting out with weights trying for their one rep max- But that's their mistake. Done the right way, starting out with plyos can be extremely beneficial.

RE: Football Question (GLD1)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:46:51 GMT

Oh an here be me playing a spot of TE - about 3 years back...i'm number 85

[image]local://10091/6A3204DF54F14B728635CF2DF066FBDB.jpg[/image]

RE: Football Question (GLD1)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:45:50 GMT

Ok.

Let's put it like this. I am a former Welsh athlete, with a 100m PB time of 11.7 aged 15. Not rapid i know, but got me from A - B. I did plyometrics as part of my training.

I am, and have been for 5 years, the record try scorer in my home district, scoring 48 tries in one season from the wing position. I did plyometrics as part of my training. I had international trials but strained ankle ligaments.

I study and work in one of the top sports universities in the UK, and have studied a wealth of literature on this subject. I still do plyometric training.

I have had nightmare hamstring injuries over the last 4 years as a result of a freak rugby accident whilst training. I have put on weight, i have lost my speed, i have lost a lot of strength. I am not massive, i am not superman, i am not billy whizz...

In short, through my experience, i know plyometrics work. I could ask any high performance coach involved with UK athletcs tomorrow if plyometrics worked....they would agree with me...

I make no balls about it...plyos can be dangerous. I note this. If i have omitted the warning in this post then apologies - you will see that in any post i make regarding the correct exercises to do that i emphasis safety.

Anyway - i'll settle this over the summer, ok? I currently weight 96KG. I can bench 70KG max. I rep with 100KG squatting, and 80KG deadlifting. Now when i return from my holidays on 3rd July, I will begin my summer conditioning programme. I will be training for speed based on my beliefs and the things that i have posted about here. I will keep a journal for you all to see. Then we can settle the debate. Hopefully i will have my first injury free season for 6 years after that...

I'm not bitter far from it - i can admit when i'm wrong and i like a good debate, so once we have something to debate about we can go for it. I took your comment as an insult as i felt it was meant as a petty swipe at me. Of course no-one has to believe any of this, but it's the truth as far as i am concerned, regarding my current physical state, and my previous achievements...

RE: Football Question (st0ne)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:04:12 GMT

my comment wasnt meant as a insult, but if you dont have any knowledge/experience in hardcore speed/vert training, you shouldnt be giving advice you know nothing about. Pylos can be more dangerous if not done properly. You cant just tell someone to go out, jump and you will be able to increase your vertical. Beginners always need weight training its the safest/most effective way to increase their performance at the level they are on.

RE: Football Question (st0ne)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:56:47 GMT

well you endorse something you never tryed. are you a weak person who did pylo's and made massive gains? i think not. so why are you telling other people to do it when you dont know if it works or not?

RE: Football Question (GLD1)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:49:45 GMT

Why go about trying to insult me? Just because i dare question you?

OK look...from what i interpret, you are saying that plyos are pointless unless you can squat big - i am saying that you can benefit from them regardless...

And according to this post you are already contradicting yourself with regards to your weight orientated post...given the context of what you are saying...

Any speed programme will incorprate plyos...I'm not getting into any childish debates. If you want a proper debate, then fine, we can look at impirical resaerch and reach an objective conclusion based on what we have read. By impirical i mean published journals, dissertations etc...not anything on here, not anything on that other site you quoted....

I think thats fair, and certainly more adult than your post above....

Next time i bump into Lynford Christie, or Lyn Davies (Both Olympic Gold medallists who i see on a regular day to day basis) i will ask for their opinion....

RE: Football Question (st0ne)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 08:18:59 GMT

anyone can do plyo's.. but you wont make much gains off them without a strong strength base. im sure you know from experience? you got what a 10in vert?

RE: Football Question (GLD1)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:57:47 GMT

Again, plyos are not ineffective...the best reason i can give for this is simple....

Can Ronnie Coleman break the 100M world record?

No chance...why?

Squatting a huge amount does not improve your sprinting technique. Squatting / Deadlifting the earth does not prepare your body for the impact of running.

If you are training to run, then it makes sense to run as part of your training, no? You wouldn't train for a bike ride by going golfing would you? Extreme but it makes my point i feel.

Just as a quick additional edit:

Plyos also help in injury prevention. Essential if you ask me....

RE: Football Question (st0ne)

Tue, 20 Jun 2006 07:39:35 GMT

stick too weight training. full squats/deadlifts/glute ham raises. you will need to be able to full squat 1.5-2.0 of your bodyweight for plyo's to be effective.

RE: Football Question (Rza)

Mon, 19 Jun 2006 17:39:21 GMT

ok if u want to sprint faster then u have to sprint because a football play only lasts 4 sec on average if that so u need to sprint out every play

Do sprinting 2-3 X a week
2x 100 yards
4x 60 yards
2x 60 yards but interval them 20 sprint 20 jog then 20 sprint

That will also give u a faster 40 time which most coaches are ape sh*t over that

Jump rope and core exercises abs,quads calves, etc

RE: Football Question (Reset)

Sat, 03 Jun 2006 09:21:30 GMT

ORIGINAL: GLD1

But it is a very dangerous exercise to do, you can seriously screw yourself up with it....

If you have a good coach, or an experienced training paretner you may want to try it out...

VERY true.. and i wouldnt suggest maxing out until you have your form perfect.. because last year our coach (yeah he was a d***) would basically put on weight that was very hard to do reps of, but he would make us, and this led to my own back injury along with 2 other players.

RE: Football Question (GLD1)

Sat, 03 Jun 2006 04:44:40 GMT

But it is a very dangerous exercise to do, you can seriously screw yourself up with it....

If you have a good coach, or an experienced training paretner you may want to try it out...

RE: Football Question (Reset)

Fri, 02 Jun 2006 21:26:05 GMT

its is basically deadlift but you lift the bar all the way up to your shoulders.. exploding through with your legs and end up with your wrists back and your arms vertical.

RE: Football Question (No Pain No Gain)

Fri, 02 Jun 2006 19:03:43 GMT

ORIGINAL: GLD1

I'd go with power cleans myself...when i was playing football, i always said the cadence in my head before pumping out my set quickly....

I found that helped....

What are power cleans?