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Prohormone Side Effects

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zebrahead
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2003/06/05 20:58:09 (permalink)
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Prohormone Side Effects

Seems to be an active little forum...

So can somebody give me the low-down.. like a bullet list of the potential side effects of prohormones?

I' ll start off quietly this time.. don' t want to piss off anybody. Not looking to start a fight. I just want to know if prohormones are just as safe as creatine? Or is this something you have to do more leg work and research on before just buying crap off the shelves?

Thanks

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    joe
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/06 14:07:50 (permalink)
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    Whatever you do, do not take any form of andro. Not only will it have NO effect on your muscle growth but it will give you acne, hair loss and if take for to long a period...Estrogen. If you' re still young (21 or under) you are still creating plenty of testosterone. If you start supplementing your already high levels, your body will stop production of it naturally. When you stop taking andro you will have to take viagra just to get it up. Trust me I have heard plenty of nightmare stories. Stick with Protein supplements.
    BigJim
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/07 21:04:05 (permalink)
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    Yeah, i agree, too much hype yet maybe not enough research.. It was a big suppliment that was based on the " it-SHOULD-work" school of thought rather then seriously researched liked creatine. So far I' ve seen no positive results from anyone.
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/08 16:10:09 (permalink)
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    While this might be true..

    The topic is side effects of pro-hormones if any and what research supports that.

    Andro is but a small topic.. try not to get to focused on that one product and see what we can find out about side effects of the entire pro-hormone family.

    Thanks.

    Marc David – CPT
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/09 06:42:33 (permalink)
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    Whatever you do, do not take any form of andro. Not only will it have NO effect on your muscle growth but it will give you acne, hair loss and if take for to long a period...Estrogen.


    Oh really oh wise one? Since you are obviously so knowledgeable on the topic could you please enlighten us on exactly how these alleged side effects occur (i.e. what biochemical mechanism in the body) and explain how this is possible without also having a concomittant effect on muscle growth. I am truly interested in hearing your version of science and fact. Do tell.

    Also, please enlighten us on my all forms of andro have the same effect. Specifically it would be helpful if you could explain the similaries to:

    1 androstendiol
    4- androstendione
    4- androstendiol
    1, 4- androstendione
    1, 4- androstendiol
    5 androstendione

    There are a few others I can' t remember right now, but since you are so well educated on the topic I am sure you have them at the tip of your tongue.

    If you' re still young (21 or under) you are still creating plenty of testosterone.


    Plenty of testosterone for what? What if one is over 21? Over 30? Over 40? Are you suggesting that people under 21 have testosterone levels equivalent to supraphysiological levels than can be achieved through exogenous hormone use?

    [Note: I am not suggestion individuals under 21 should be using prohormones or steroids, just pointing out how ****ing retarted this statement is.]

    If you start supplementing your already high levels, your body will stop production of it naturally.


    This is actually the only halfway correct statement in here. The only problem is that you obviously have not a clue that the shut down of endogenous testosterone production is transient.


    When you stop taking andro you will have to take viagra just to get it up. Trust me


    I am laughing my ass off at this. Trust you? Your head is so far up your ass on this topic it is amusing. Why don' t you do a little research on the topic before stating such nonsense and giving retarded advice. Indeed, there are posts HERE that provide some insight.


    I have heard plenty of nightmare stories. Stick with Protein supplements.


    Oh really? Please share. I' d request that you provide details though including past history, predisposition, current prohormone use and dose. Effects, and side effects. Thanks for enlightening us.

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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/09 06:49:00 (permalink)
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    Yeah, i agree, too much hype yet maybe not enough research.. It was a big suppliment that was based on the " it-SHOULD-work" school of thought rather then seriously researched liked creatine. So far I' ve seen no positive results from anyone.


    Really? I have literally seen thousands of reports providing extremely significant muscle and strength gains. Course, they were probably all lying.

    Your comparison to creatine is quite amusing. While I have never gained a single pound of muscle due to creatine supplementation, I have had surreal muscle and strength gains from proper prohormone cycling.

    That said, the first andro product on the market (back in the late 80s) is has you are describing now. It has almost zero oral bioavailability, as it gets destroyed by the liver. Many other prohormones have been developed since than that are orally active. As well, many companies have developed alternate delivery systems such as transdermal application, sublingual application (cyclo-dextrin), ester modification, etc.

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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/09 06:57:56 (permalink)
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    ORIGINAL: zebrahead

    Seems to be an active little forum...

    So can somebody give me the low-down.. like a bullet list of the potential side effects of prohormones?

    I' ll start off quietly this time.. don' t want to piss off anybody. Not looking to start a fight. I just want to know if prohormones are just as safe as creatine? Or is this something you have to do more leg work and research on before just buying crap off the shelves?

    Thanks


    Thanks for a good question, sorry it took so long to get to it.

    No, they are not as " safe" as creatine. For this reason they are cycled, typically no more than 4-6 weeks straight without an equal time off.

    This question is hard to answer generally, nor do I hav ethe time to answer it PH by PH, but each is more or less likely to produce various side effects.

    General, PH supplementation will take your anabolic hormone levels to supraphysiological levels. As such, your own testosterone production will shut down. This comes back within a few weeks (is transient).

    Possible signs include:

    - gyno
    - hairloss
    - acne
    - testicular shrinkage
    - lethargy
    - loss of libido

    The first to are extreme and I have heard NO reported cases of these with proper supplementation (i.e. cycling and use at the proper doses) UNLESS one was predisposed, and has a prexisting case of the same.

    The others are transient, and can be controlled. For example, 1-testosterone is the most anabolic of PHs. It is also the most potent (androgenic) of them and most likely to cause hair loss and lethargy. The lethargy can be countered for example by stacking it with 4-diol or 1, 4 andro, and these will aslo add to the anabolic effect.

    Bottom line. If you are interested or curious, research the hell out of em and make the appropriate choice for you.

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    zebrahead
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/09 20:56:25 (permalink)
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    - testicular shrinkage


    Now that is a side-effect that I' m not willing to take without figuring this thing out. Look.. seems like you know your ****. Which is good for me. I' m starting to read that Big Cat article that' s linked in this forum. And while I' m going to take it with a grain of salt, I' m wondering what kind of a stack I might try.

    I' m also getting the impression that when you start one of these stacks, you really need to watch the calendar and make sure you quit at about 6 weeks.. 8 at the latest.

    Just wondering if I should start a thread on possible stacks and discuss those there? I know Big Cat has some listed. I' d like to copy those (learned the copy thing in a previous post... got hand slapped) and start a debate on what to take as a newbie and what to research.

    I at least understand that Pro-Hormones are some serious stuff and it' s not just another protein supplement.
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/09 21:15:40 (permalink)
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    Yes. They are a serious supplement. Hence we created a forum just for their discussion in hopes of educating people about their usage.

    I encourage you to read about them, ask questions before taking them. While they can be dangerous (but so can water if you drink till you die), they can be a very safe and effective supplement if used correctly and you educate yourself.

    It' s the people who blindly take the words of a post or who do no research on their own that ruin it for the entire community when they do something insane.

    The stack thread might be interesting.. a collection of what people take, have thought about taking or have heard on the net about what to take. Interesting idea.

    Marc David – CPT
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    Marc David
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/09 22:00:29 (permalink)
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    Since this turned into an Andro debate.. somehow.. I thought it would be good to point out that:

    Andro Side Effects - Prohormone Lacks Thorough Studies

    To date, no studies have show Androstenedione to have side effects on human subjects - this does not mean that Andro has no side effects.

    Get the rest of the thread

    Marc David – CPT
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/10 07:22:37 (permalink)
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    Common solos:

    1-Test
    1-AD
    4-AD
    1, 4 AD
    Nor-Diol

    Common stacks:

    1-Test or 1-AD and 4-AD

    1-Test and 1, 4 AD

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    zebrahead
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/10 17:37:03 (permalink)
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    If you were new.. and you wanted to try a common solo.. which one would you choose to begin with and what should I look for in terms of noticeable differences and cycle times?

    I know they all have their ups and downs.. I' m looking for something as a baby step. To start off slowly. To try the various products and see which ones work best. Something that I can monitor and cycle and see some differences after say.. 2 or 3 months.
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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/10 17:48:42 (permalink)
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    This should be in another thread.

    Really slowly? I' d go will a transdermal 4-diol, if you can still find one. They are hard to come by.

    Next would be a transdermal Nor, same problem.

    Next would be ergopharm' s 1 AD. Though this converts to 1-Test, so why not just a 1-test product. Again, if 1-test, transdermal is the superior method of application.

    However, for me, I get extremely lethargic on 1-test. So I' d suggest stacking that with 4-diol, which works well and is a basic stack. ONE+, was a product we used to make, but the FDA forced avant to stop selling all transdermal prohormone products. Why? Because they worked, too well, and they claimed that transdermals are not permitted. They' d love to shut down the sale of all prohormones, but they can' t (unless congress bans them) and Avant is too small to fight. Regardless, a few retailers still have them in stock.

    If you don' t want to go with a transdermal, I' d suggest 1-AD and a 4-6 week cycle.

    This should yield you (assuming you are eating and training properly) bodyweight gain in the nature of 10 pounds, mostly muscle and water.

    With ONE+ you should expect 15-20 pounds in 6 weeks.

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    RE: Prohormone Side Effects 2003/06/10 18:33:38 (permalink)
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    This should be in another thread.


    It could be.

    Maybe you should be a moderator?

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