one day kills progress help!?

i would really suggest doing a clean bulk now cus if you loose all that fat your gunna look like a twig no offense. but might as well get some muscle out of your fat loss =]

the guy is tiny.... BULK!

8============================D~



totally boned up

here is a better pic

[image]local://19481/36D3285C6CE849FA9A13D1C6EAA6333F.JPG[/image]

Attached Image(s)

ORIGINAL: kingyoto

here is a better pic

[image]local://19481/36D3285C6CE849FA9A13D1C6EAA6333F.JPG[/image]

You need to clean bulk, and here's why..

You don't have much muscle on you.  More muscle=faster metabolism=less fat.  If you clean bulk you will LOSE fat for the first few weeks, and then gain .2 lbs of fat a week if that.

It does suck being fat in highschool, but think about it like this..

If you bulk until April, you'll be about 195-200 pounds, maybe more who knows.  You can EASILY get down to 10% bodyfat by the end of May, which means you'll be cut for summer, which is the only time anyone will see you shirtless anyway, and you'll get more ass than the big guy in prison.

President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08

ORIGINAL: Yet


You need to clean bulk, and here's why..

You don't have much muscle on you.  More muscle=faster metabolism=less fat.  If you clean bulk you will LOSE fat for the first few weeks, and then gain .2 lbs of fat a week if that.

It does suck being fat in highschool, but think about it like this..

If you bulk until April, you'll be about 195-200 pounds, maybe more who knows.  You can EASILY get down to 10% bodyfat by the end of May, which means you'll be cut for summer, which is the only time anyone will see you shirtless anyway, and you'll get more ass than the big guy in prison.

are u serious?? he's at like 20%bf now if he bulks upto 195 he'll be like 25%bf theres NO WAY u can get from 25%-10% from april to may

I think the point to this is.. Kingyoto has very little muscle mass.. A cut will more than likely shed what little muscle he does have.. by eating healthy right at or slightly above your maintainance level, doing cardio 3 days a week and literally busting your ass in the gym, you'll more than likely lose some fat and put on a good amount of lean mass within 6-8 months.. When you have a little more muscle to spar.. as most everyone has mentioned. your metabolism will be much higher and it will be easier to lose fat with minimal muscle loss... But dude... again, you're by no means obese.. of course you have some fat.. your still a kid and have only trained for a few months.. You're doing great.. just take your time and you'll get your goals.. but the bottom line is.. you need muscle.. only eating will bring that.. you can workout 24/7 but minus the cals.. and it aint going to happen.. good luck..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

from a bodybuilding aspect ur right. but he's doing this to look good and i kno how he feels. he should cut...end of story. he's not gonna be as happy bulking when he thinks he's just making the problem worse. 

What do you mean, "he should cut, end of story?" Who died and made you his mother??

He came here.. here being a bodybuilding site to get advice on how to lose fat and gain muscle.. what you're advising him to do for what ever reason is not his best recourse.. This teenage guy has virtually no muscle and needs to cut about as much as Paris Hilton.... If he wanted to be skinny, he could go to weightwatchers.com or gennycraig.com... but he didn't, he came to a bobybuilding site.. .

ORIGINAL: David1991
from a bodybuilding aspect ur right. but he's doing this to look good

And what exactly does the above mean??  From a bodybuilding aspect ur right.. but he's doing this to look good.. Exactly.. to look good, not look anorexic... 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

What do you mean, "he should cut, end of story?" Who died and made you his mother??

He came here.. here being a bodybuilding site to get advice on how to lose fat and gain muscle.. what you're advising him to do for what ever reason is not his best recourse.. This teenage guy has virtually no muscle and needs to cut about as much as Paris Hilton.... If he wanted to be skinny, he could go to weightwatchers.com or gennycraig.com... but he didn't, he came to a bobybuilding site.. .

And what exactly does the above mean??  From a bodybuilding aspect ur right.. but he's doing this to look good.. Exactly.. to look good, not look anorexic... 

look u just clearly dont remember being in highschool. just the  other week he made a thread about getting his man boobs flicked by a girl. NO ONE wants to be even alittle overweight in Highschool. he will get more girls, have more self confidence, and be happier if he cuts now. i kno im right about that so theres no point in arguing and i'm pretty sure he's gonna take my advice.

i'd start clean bulking now until maybe February, you'd notice a loss of fat and gains of muscle, if you do your best you'd probably only see a slight change in bf% depending on all the conditions
from feb. i'd cut til the beginning of april, when you start wearing the smaller shirts etc. get down to maybe 15% bf?
start cleanbulking again until summer where you can choose whatever
 
i dono that's just what im seeing is best

adding on to wat i said, the one reason i could see u clean bulking would be because its gonna be winter soon so most ppl wont see ur body. i cant really do that cause i have swimming in the winter and thats when i gotta look my best (yes its a pretty gay sport but thats not why i do it, maaad hot girls)

No, I guess I don't remember what it's like.. but have you  taken a good look at his picture?  The guy doesn’t even have man boobs and Like Everyone other than you has said he doesn’t need to cut.. No matter where you are in life be it school, work, home, anywhere for that matter there are going to be people who make fun of you.. structuring your life around what other people think is no way to live..
 
This is a bodybuilding site, not slimfast.. and if you feel like you've done a good deed by advising kingyoto to cut you're only helping contribute to his low self esteem problem and confirming that he should only do what pleases others..  He obviously wants to gain mass or he wouldn’t have joined this site.. He’s obviously confused or he would have never asked the question to begin with.. The only thing you've done is confirm his feelings that he needs to be a skinny rail in order to fit in and be accepted and that's simply not true..
 
If anything, everyone should be pointing out the good and the good things he can do to improve himself in the long run.. Not advising him to do something just for the sake of esthetically pleasing his peers.. That's not good advice no matter how you look at it.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: David1991

adding on to wat i said, the one reason i could see u clean bulking would be because its gonna be winter soon so most ppl wont see ur body. i cant really do that cause i have swimming in the winter and thats when i gotta look my best (yes its a pretty gay sport but thats not why i do it, maaad hot girls)

So when did you change your mind?? your last post you were clearly against a clean bulk? Now your giving advice about cutting and bulking depending on the season??  
 
Kingyoto, as I said before, take my advice and everyone elses.. and do a bulk eating good healthy goods.  When you gain a little more muscle mass, the extra fat around your waist and problems areas will come off much easier and you'll look much better.. It may take a little extra work but If you start cutting now, you'll be dissapointed at the rusults due to muscle loss, and right now, you don't have enough muscle to spare.. and I'm not being insulting.. You have a good base to bulk with.. and could have some incredible results if done the right way.. good luck

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

ORIGINAL: David1991

adding on to wat i said, the one reason i could see u clean bulking would be because its gonna be winter soon so most ppl wont see ur body. i cant really do that cause i have swimming in the winter and thats when i gotta look my best (yes its a pretty gay sport but thats not why i do it, maaad hot girls)

So when did you change your mind?? your last post you were clearly against a clean bulk? Now your giving advice about cutting and bulking depending on the season??  

im not changing my mind, im just saying i can see a point in clean bulking since its gonna be winter. i wasnt thinking in that mindset cause i have to be cut for the winter. i still think he should cut but i agree that the winter would be the best time for a bulk

ok, this is a black and white argument between either cutting or bulking. i think both are being looked at as extremes, ie. gain lots of weight or lose lots of weight. neither should be done in his case. his bodyfat isnt that high. i would just not use the word bulk or cut because both give connotations that arent relevant.
 
i mean, given that hes a beginner, if he eats around maintenance, erring on the side of slightly above and not below, im sure that he will see improvements. he doesnt need to go all out and eat lots over or lots under and do lots of cardio...theres leniency with beginners, just training hard and eating enough but not excessive will yield results...the bodyfat will decrease, strength will increase, and definition will increase.
 
i think the worst idea would be to choose cutting. he will probably lose some fat and become more defined just from being consistently training and feeding his body what it needs or a little above.
 
cutting, in my mind, gets used wrong most of the time. in order to cut, you have to have muscle to reveal...thats the purpose. in order for that to be the case, you need a substantial amount of muscle mass, and he doesnt appear to have that yet. which is expected since he is a beginner. therefore, put on muscle, eat sensibly around/a tad above maintenance, and the muscle mass will come...burning some fat at the same time in the beginning at least.

bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 

i dont think any1 said for him to eat tons over maintenance, pretty much every1 said clean bulk which refers to the way ur talking about

well, clean bulk doesnt necesarrily translate to that always, you could clean bulk well over maintanance, it just means eating healthy foods over maintenace, i dont think it specifically specifies how much over...and my point is that the term bulk has a connatation that you will gain fat, when in many many cases, beginners wont given that they are training hard and eating well
 
i just dont think anyone should start a bodybuilding lifestyle with a cut unless they are veyr obese and there are health reasons that do so
 
 

bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 

ORIGINAL: edrice2

ok, this is a black and white argument between either cutting or bulking. i think both are being looked at as extremes, ie. gain lots of weight or lose lots of weight. neither should be done in his case. his bodyfat isnt that high. i would just not use the word bulk or cut because both give connotations that arent relevant.

i mean, given that hes a beginner, if he eats around maintenance, erring on the side of slightly above and not below, im sure that he will see improvements. he doesnt need to go all out and eat lots over or lots under and do lots of cardio...theres leniency with beginners, just training hard and eating enough but not excessive will yield results...the bodyfat will decrease, strength will increase, and definition will increase.

i think the worst idea would be to choose cutting. he will probably lose some fat and become more defined just from being consistently training and feeding his body what it needs or a little above.

cutting, in my mind, gets used wrong most of the time. in order to cut, you have to have muscle to reveal...thats the purpose. in order for that to be the case, you need a substantial amount of muscle mass, and he doesnt appear to have that yet. which is expected since he is a beginner. therefore, put on muscle, eat sensibly around/a tad above maintenance, and the muscle mass will come...burning some fat at the same time in the beginning at least.

 
Just to clarify, I never said he should go on an all out bulk.. I said he didn't need to cut and should continue eating a normal healthy diet..right at or slighly above his maintainance level..
 
Lets keep this in perspective.. this is a bodybuilding weight lifting site.  If someone only wants to lose weight that is as simple as modifying a diet and that advice could be given on literally thousand of other weight loss dieting sites..
 
As you so clearly pointed out.. he has hardly any muscle.  I discouraged cutting because first of all I was shocked after seeing his pic that anyone would even recommend a cut.  he has very little muscle mass and you know as well as I do that a cut would probably take what little he has down even lower.. Pointless.... A healthy diet, right at or slightly above his maintainance levels would do wonders.. I also mentioned that several posts back.  
 
I understand school is tough.. but life is even toughter.. if we go around making decissions based on what others think, we live a very miserable life.  At some point, you have to say screw it.. I'm going to do what's best for me ignore the a**holes.. what does it matter what they think, in 3 or 4 years most of them will be working at a Fast food rest.. asking you if you want to supersize that meal:)
 
  

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

yeah, i agree with you...i meant the bulking part just in general, probably more for how he/most beginners that view themselves as needing to lose weight might interpret the term bulking...i know what you meant and agree with you about the just over maintenance and definitely not cutting

bulking/strength training

soon to begin bill starr's 5X5

current maxes: 
squats: 255
deadlifts: 300
bench: 185
oh press: 125
goals for jan 1:
squats: 300
deadlifts: 350
bench: 210
oh pressL 145 

ORIGINAL: edrice2

well, clean bulk doesnt necesarrily translate to that always, you could clean bulk well over maintanance, it just means eating healthy foods over maintenace, i dont think it specifically specifies how much over

actually u should pretty much always be eating healthy foods, clean bulk usually refers to .5lb.-1lb. gain per week whereas a normal or "dirty" bulk would be about 1.5-2lb. per week

Well Isent an email to marc and he told me to cut. He said guys go into bodybuilding say 20% bf and 6 months later theyr'e 25% bodyfat and stronger but you can't flex fat. He recomended that I cut first so i'm just throwing that info out there. I'm still going to eat at my maintnence and hopefully it will work out.

ORIGINAL: kingyoto

Well I sent an email to marc and he told me to cut. He said guys go into bodybuilding say 20% bf and 6 months later theyr'e 25% bodyfat and stronger but you can't flex fat. He recomended that I cut first so i'm just throwing that info out there. I'm still going to cut till I lose my gut then I'll clean bulk like a crzy person.

o rly? is that so?

these are his exact words


A lot of guys who are 19% body fat and higher, get into this muscle building phase and it’s an excuse to eat more because “well I need a calorie surplus” and in a year. They are 25% body fat and stronger. Now they are a big, strong, fat guy.



But you can’t flex fat.

.

.

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon

Ok, I just read this whole thread and I know what it's like being the fat kid in school. I was him from 4th grade-9th grade so I know exactly what it's like, and it's probably one of the worst feelings ever. Physical pain is one thing, but constant/consistent emotional/mental pain of knowing that you are labeled and recognized as the fat kid is heartrending and disgraceful. I was once him, and I dont not know that guy anymore. I refuse to look at him, nor recollect any memory that transpired from him. Breaking 200 pounds in 8th(all fat, no muscle), and now in 11th grade 160(Maybe BF 10-11%) I am different, I am respected, I am actually intimidating to some. Kingyoto, I know exactly what you're going through, and for the well being of your concious, your emtions, your sex life, hell for you, lose the weight while building muscle. Did I say clean bulk, no. Did I say cut, no. Lift hard 3 times a week, hit the abs 2-3 times a week giving them their own days, and do HIIT cardio 3-5 times a week. Cardio after workouts, and/or if you lift in the morning, go on an empty stomach. Your only supplementation should be whey protein. If you wish, the amino acid L-Carnitine could be used if you wish to, however, don't expect miracles. This is all coming from a guy who was in the same position as you, but worse. I had no friends, didn't know anything about girls, no focus, no drive, and spiraling downward into a whirlwind of depression. I've been there, I've done that. I'm out of it, and so can you. Lose the weight first until you've reached a desired picture of yourself through the MIRROR. Dont go by the number the scale tells you, go by what you look like. Once you've reached it, then slowly, I mean SLOWLY clean bulk. You'll gain mass, strength, and more this way. When it's all over, you'll be a much happier individual. For those who disagree with what I said, you cannot talk unless you have personal experience of being the overweight kid. I dont care what science/bodybuilding theories tell you, forget them, this is about you Kingyoto. Do it for yourself. The only thing that stands before you now, and the 10% BF you in 6-8 months is an obstacle you created; Doubt and Uncertainty. Surpass these obstacles, and get moving. The hands on the clock will forever change, but will you take the time and effort to change as well? The choice is yours. 

Current Supplements: Multi, Whey, Caffeine, BCAA, Vitamin C, Calcium
Current Cycle: Strength

"Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path, and leave a trail."

Wow just wow that is such an insperation to me. I feel so motivated right now. I really believe what you say is great advice and your post has given me a real confidence boost. I can't wait to look so great and just rub it the faces of anyone who ever gave me **** I can't wait to show myself that i'm not a loser and I can acomplish anything. Some day when I reach my goal of 180 lbs. 10% bodyfat. some day i'll be there but really thanks for the advice it really means a lot to me.

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon

I'm glad it was appreciated, and good luck!

Current Supplements: Multi, Whey, Caffeine, BCAA, Vitamin C, Calcium
Current Cycle: Strength

"Do not go where the path may lead, instead go where there is no path, and leave a trail."

being the heavy kid in high skool does suck. just take me for example.
 
but im doing something about it

add me: www.myspace.com/mattlchef

how big are you?

"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." Friedrich Nietzsche

"Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted" John Lennon