ok...who thinks we need this

Okay... I'm starting to look like Link with the consecutive posts, but the further I dig into this Uniform Controlled Substances Act gibberish, the more I learn that I never knew before...  Check out this little gem, apropos to the subject at hand:

According to section 405, subsection a:

A person may not knowingly or intentionally deliver, or possess with intent to deliver, a noncontrolled substance representing it to be a controlled substance.

...

This section is based on Annotated Code of Maryland Article 27, § 286B. Some States are more expansive, e.g., Wisconsin Statutes Section 161.41(2m), which prohibits the manufacture of an imitation controlled substance in lieu of a controlled substance, while others include "prima facie" factors to be considered evidence of delivery of "look-alikes," such as prior convictions, evasive tactics, and proximity to controlled substances, as well as immunity for using imitation controlled substances as placebos, e.g., North Dakota Century Code Chapter 19-03.2. Factors that may be useful in determining whether this section is violated include whether the physical appearance is substantially identical to that of a controlled substance, whether the noncontrolled substance was packaged in a manner normally used for the illegal distribution of controlled substances, and whether delivery included an exchange of money or property substantially greater than the reasonable value of the noncontrolled substance.

So in other words, you can go to jail for marketing a legal product as a steroid, even if it isn't one.  Kinda begs the question: How do supplement manufacturers get away with hyping their products as "steroids" if they know they can get thrown in the pokey for it?

ORIGINAL: veggeep

Okay... I'm starting to look like Link with the consecutive posts, but the further I dig into this Uniform Controlled Substances Act gibberish, the more I learn that I never knew before... Check out this little gem, apropos to the subject at hand:

According to section 405, subsection a:

A person may not knowingly or intentionally deliver, or possess with intent to deliver, a noncontrolled substance representing it to be a controlled substance.

...

This section is based on Annotated Code of Maryland Article 27, § 286B. Some States are more expansive, e.g., Wisconsin Statutes Section 161.41(2m), which prohibits the manufacture of an imitation controlled substance in lieu of a controlled substance, while others include "prima facie" factors to be considered evidence of delivery of "look-alikes," such as prior convictions, evasive tactics, and proximity to controlled substances, as well as immunity for using imitation controlled substances as placebos, e.g., North Dakota Century Code Chapter 19-03.2. Factors that may be useful in determining whether this section is violated include whether the physical appearance is substantially identical to that of a controlled substance, whether the noncontrolled substance was packaged in a manner normally used for the illegal distribution of controlled substances, and whether delivery included an exchange of money or property substantially greater than the reasonable value of the noncontrolled substance.

So in other words, you can go to jail for marketing a legal product as a steroid, even if it isn't one. Kinda begs the question: How do supplement manufacturers get away with hyping their products as "steroids" if they know they can get thrown in the pokey for it?

NO WAY! your right Veg! how the hell do they get away with it!

Maybe thats why they use the name D-bol Or Winny etc.. maybe its because they are not actually using the drug name it self and its not even close to the same chemical.

they get away with it with a simple word manipulation
 
"Get huge just LIKE you're on steroids"
 
 
"The next best thing to steroids"
 
 
"Legal steroids!"
 
 
 
No company that I know of flat out states "This IS steroids".
 
 
 
 
 
veg, as far as superdrol and other hormonal products being banned by certain organizations, yes there are PLENTY that ban these compounds. That is why it is up to each and every individual to know the rules/regulations of contest before one enters.
 
 
I highly doubt if you were on 1 gram of Test e/50mg dbol/600mg boldenone per week you would fail a drug work test...let alone being on superdrol/halodrol/phera
 
Steroid testing is incredibly expensive and not always the most accurate thing, so 99.9% of tests do not include it.
 
 

"poena est vires in dissimulo"

Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"

Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%

ORIGINAL : veggeep
Naw, dude.  That wasn't sarcasm -I meant that.   I'm of the opinion that we could find safe ways to use AAS in sports if it weren't for the laws barring them, but it's a lot harder to unmake a law than it is to find willing private interests to do that kind of research.  Frankly, I think our government overreaches on a LOT of areas in our personal lives like this -you might say that makes me a bit of a libertarian toward drug laws.  If I'm not hurting anybody else, the government has no business telling me what needle I can stick in my body.  But that is the kind of paternalistic government we have, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

 
Oh, ok, suweet man.  I like your views on the drug laws.  Cigarettes are legal (and obviously have many health risks), so why make prohormones (also unhealthy but used WAAAAYYY less often) illegal?  Plus, people who want to take them (most) actually care about their health/body enough to do something about it.  What do cigarettes benefit?  They definitely don't increase LBM or lower bf%, ya know? lol.  And I agree, as long as the person isn't harming anyone or making HUGE distractions, I think our "free" country should be free, but hey, what do I know, I'm 19! haha. 
 
 
 
Vaughn, have you PM'd mark yet?

Werd! Kick-ass new avatar, bro!

yeah you look great bro. no homo lol.
 
vaughn i say go ahead and make you sticky i think everyone wants to see it now that we have got the fact they're all legal supplements also i think they should open the pro hormone section back up and just not anabolics be discussed and delete all posts about anabolics.

ORIGINAL: veggeep

Werd! Kick-ass new avatar, bro!

Check out my Video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vlWZpChpCzY

Also check out my log
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_275052/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#275052

I am all for re-opening the Prohormone section of this forum.  I think that with some help from mods, we can keep it strictly aimed at the new DS/PH's on the market, and having members like Vaughn who really know their stuff police it, I think it could be very successful.  I would have no problem whatsoever helping out with the section if the help was needed.

AFAA(Aerobics and Fitness Associations of America) Certified Personal Trainer.

Don't mean to be a party pooper
 
but we've all agreed exactly what vaughn wants, gone over
 
legal aspects
safety aspects
hipocritical society aspects
 
 
Yet i see not one post from a mod or marc, so really no more debate is needed, and if marc was gonna make this idea into reality, he'd have posted something by now.

 Maybe he hasn't had a chance to see it yet, don't kill our hopes and dreams just yet Link.

President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08

ORIGINAL: veggeep

Werd! Kick-ass new avatar, bro!

 
Thanks man, haha.

ORIGINAL: Yet

 Maybe he hasn't had a chance to see it yet, don't kill our hopes and dreams just yet Link.

 
"our hopes and dreams", lol

If he was so against it, wouldn't he have said a simple "no" in this thread?

i dunno...I dont want to PM him about it, I'd prefer him to read every response in this thread

"poena est vires in dissimulo"

Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"

Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%

I don't understand why people sign up for a forum that isn't about prohormones or anabolics and they feel the need to discuss them and educate everybody.  DB has a unique factor to it that most forums don't:

• no sex forum
• no hooking up/dating forum
• no anabolics forum

It's what makes DB unique.

My inclination long ago to remove the supplements forum entirely.  For something that most of us agree is a small percentage of our gains, it's the #1 forum on DB and is a close 1st place tie with Out of Bounds for the number of new posts per day.  It's part of the sport that seems to be inescapable.

There's a prohormone forum already with some darn good FAQs.  Anything on the market isn't so earth shattering that it needs to be discussed in detail.

And my own personal belief is that DB isn't in support of anabolics or such supplements in a natural bodybuilding realm.  I'm not denying it's not part of the sport but it's one I'm not comfortable with from a legal standpoint or my own education.

The ONLY reason the prohormone forum was deleted was that Twin Peak made the argument that while it's now illegal, there's a lot of high quality information in that forum that would be a shame to delete when it was legal.  And I agree.  There's many good high level educational posts in regards to using such substances.

Nothing I've seen in the Supplements section today isn't already addressed from posts 2 years ago.

I'm going to PM Kris on this as well to get his perspective.  He's an admin too and may have a different opinion.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

ORIGINAL: Marc David

I don't understand why people sign up for a forum that isn't about prohormones or anabolics and they feel the need to discuss them and educate everybody.  DB has a unique factor to it that most forums don't:

• no sex forum
• no hooking up/dating forum
• no anabolics forum

It's what makes DB unique.

My inclination long ago to remove the supplements forum entirely.  For something that most of us agree is a small percentage of our gains, it's the #1 forum on DB and is a close 1st place tie with Out of Bounds for the number of new posts per day.  It's part of the sport that seems to be inescapable.

There's a prohormone forum already with some darn good FAQs.  Anything on the market isn't so earth shattering that it needs to be discussed in detail.

And my own personal belief is that DB isn't in support of anabolics or such supplements in a natural bodybuilding realm.  I'm not denying it's not part of the sport but it's one I'm not comfortable with from a legal standpoint or my own education.

The ONLY reason the prohormone forum was deleted was that Twin Peak made the argument that while it's now illegal, there's a lot of high quality information in that forum that would be a shame to delete when it was legal.  And I agree.  There's many good high level educational posts in regards to using such substances.

Nothing I've seen in the Supplements section today isn't already addressed from posts 2 years ago.

I'm going to PM Kris on this as well to get his perspective.  He's an admin too and may have a different opinion.

I agree Marc...which is why I stated it would also be a GREAT idea to just lock/delete every PH thread started here!

I'm just trying to get this board going one way or another...you saw we're anti PH/DS however there is a new thread about one every day.


Either completely ban all PH/DS talk, or allow a sticky with proper information about new PH/DS so these people can figure out for themselves if they are right for them or not.



I like the idea of deleting/locking all ph/ds threads personally

"poena est vires in dissimulo"

Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"

Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%

Keep in mind that...

* moderators do an excellent job here without any pay.  Most of them don't even have a vested interest in promoting their own websites
* there's hundreds of posts a day and policing it is a communal job as well.  Not replying to such posts keeps them from staying at the top.  Reporting problem posts helps the mods and admins get to a problem quickly

And the #1 way to eliminate the problem?

Make DB a paid membership forum.

That would eliminate almost every single instance as the average age of the posters are under 18 and we both know that most people are unwilling to pay for a membership site.  Demographics prove that.

But DB is a free site.  Has been and always will be.

And such, we are bound to be plagued with such issues.  But if the majority of the community supports a natural bodybuilding stance, such posts will come and go quickly.

Point them to the existing FAQs in the Pro-Hormone section and let them read.  That's all anybody really can do.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com