RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 6/17/2003 8:02:32 AM
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Marc David
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Is Glutamine a Must-Have Supplement?
So, is glutamine a " must have" supplement for any aspiring bodybuilder? No, probably not. Is it helpful under situations where overtraining is rearing its ugly head? You bet. Everything considered, glutamine is one of those supplements that probably will benefit anybody preparing for a show, but if you are an off-season, well-fed bodybuilder getting plenty of recovery and using a whey protein supplement, there are more important supplements to spend your money on.
by Bryan Haycock MSc., CSCS
My Summary:
I think this statement sums up what we' ve discussed? I firmly believe there is enough research to show the benefits of Glutamine in those who are chronically ill or under an extreme amount of stress (overtraining/show prep?). This statement also agrees with Robboe' s stance that Glutamine supplies for the BB can easily be obtained from an adequate diet. It also agrees with TP that there are more important supplements to spend your money on. I' m not sure it agrees with Kris as it clearly says it isn' t a must-have.
< Message edited by mda1125 -- 6/17/2003 8:06:29 AM >
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 6/17/2003 2:30:42 PM
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Twin Peak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kris
" Prove which does not exist?" I' m not asking for that. I' m asking for a reference to a study that proves glutamine is useless for bodybuilding. Prove what you are saying. Back it up with some facts.
Okay. Here you go:
J Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance.
Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.
Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.
The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.
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Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.
Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.
College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.
The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.
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J Appl Physiol 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22 Related Articles, Links
Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.
Hiscock N, Pedersen BK.
Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, University of Copenhagen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.
The amino acid glutamine is known to be important for the function of some immune cells in vitro. It has been proposed that the decrease in plasma glutamine concentration in relation to catabolic conditions, including prolonged, exhaustive exercise, results in a lack of glutamine for these cells and may be responsible for the transient immunodepression commonly observed after acute, exhaustive exercise. It has been unclear, however, whether the magnitude of the observed decrease in plasma glutamine concentration would be great enough to compromise the function of immune cells. In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA. It is concluded that, although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression.
< Message edited by Twin Peak -- 6/17/2003 2:31:39 PM >
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(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 6/18/2003 4:53:01 AM
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Robboe
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Where' d you get those from, Steve?
Actually, i' ll post my abstracts now - of which those three are included.
' ang on a sec.
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 6/18/2003 5:15:14 AM
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Robboe
Posts: 908
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***Note: Some of these abstracts explain themselves nicely. I' ve highlighted the conclusions of them, and on some, explained why they are applicable.
Happy reading.
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Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.
Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.
College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.
The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.
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J Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance
Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.
Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.
The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.
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Int J Sports Med 2000 Jan;21(1):25-30 Related Articles, Links
The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.
van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.
Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. RH01769@RH.DK
The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.
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Metabolism 2000 Dec;49(12):1555-60 Related Articles, Links
Intravenous glutamine does not stimulate mixed muscle protein synthesis in healthy young men and women.
Zachwieja JJ, Witt TL, Yarasheski KE.
Exercise and Nutrition Program, Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA, USA.
We investigated the effects of a glutamine-supplemented amino acid mixture on vastus lateralis muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women. Three men and 3 women (27.8 +/- 2.0 yr, 22.2 +/- 1.0 body mass index [BMI], 56.1 +/- 4.5 kg lean body mass [LBM]) received a 14-hour primed, constant intravenous infusion of L[1-13C]leucine to evaluate the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis. In addition to tracer administration, a clinically relevant amino acid mixture supplemented with either glutamine or glycine in amounts isonitrogenous to glutamine, was infused. Amino acid mixtures were infused on separate occasions in random order at a rate of 0.04 g/kg/h (glutamine at approximately 0.01 g/kg/h) with at least 2 weeks between treatment. For 2 days before and on the day of an infusion, dietary intake was controlled so that each subject received 1.5 g protein/kg/d. Compared with our previous report in the postabsorptive state, amino acid infusion increased the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis by 48% (P < .05); however, the addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture did not further elevate muscle protein synthesis rate (ie, 0.071% +/- 0.008%/h for amino acids + glutamine v 0.060% +/- 0.008%/h for amino acids + glycine; P = .316). Plasma glutamine concentrations were higher (P < .05) during the glutamine-supplemented infusion, but free intramuscular glutamine levels were not increased (P = .363). Both plasma and free intramuscular glycine levels were increased when extra glycine was included in the infused amino acid mixture (both P < .0001). We conclude that intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women.
***Note: that' s IV administration showing nothing. This basically shows that plasma concentrations mean little - something that any Avant regular will recall Par Deus harps on about regularly.
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J Appl Physiol 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22 Related Articles, Links
Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.
Hiscock N, Pedersen BK.
Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, University of Copenhagen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.
The amino acid glutamine is known to be important for the function of some immune cells in vitro. It has been proposed that the decrease in plasma glutamine concentration in relation to catabolic conditions, including prolonged, exhaustive exercise, results in a lack of glutamine for these cells and may be responsible for the transient immunodepression commonly observed after acute, exhaustive exercise. It has been unclear, however, whether the magnitude of the observed decrease in plasma glutamine concentration would be great enough to compromise the function of immune cells. In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA. It is concluded that, although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression
***Note: The stress conditions of exercise aren' t really comparable to burns or surgery. I have something by John Berardi (not a writer i' m too keen on) where he has breakdowns of how stressful various actions and activites are. I' ll try and dig it up. it would be nice to have the full study of this one, to see what they say about various situations, but since it' s dated in 2002, i doubt it' s availably for free online right now.
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Effect of glutamine and protein supplementation on exercise-induced decreases in salivary IgA.
Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Link-Amster H, Boza J, Halkjaer-Kristensen J, Pedersen BK.
The Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, Rigshospitalet, 2200 Copenhagen, Denmark.
Postexercise immune impairment has been linked to exercise-induced decrease in plasma glutamine concentration. This study examined the possibility of abolishing the exercise-induced decrease in salivary IgA through glutamine supplementation during and after intense exercise. Eleven athletes performed cycle ergometer exercise for 2 h at 75% of maximal oxygen uptake on 3 separate days. Glutamine (a total of 17.5 g), protein (a total of 68.5 g/6.2 g protein-bound glutamine), and placebo supplements were given during and up to 2 h after exercise. Unstimulated, timed saliva samples were obtained before exercise and 20 min, 140 min, 4 h, and 22 h postexercise. The exercise protocol induced a decrease in salivary IgA (IgA concentration, IgA output, and IgA relative to total protein). The plasma concentration of glutamine was decreased by 15% 2 h postexercise in the placebo group, whereas this decline was abolished by both glutamine and protein supplements.None of the supplements, however, was able to abolish the decline in salivary IgA. This study does not support that postexercise decrease in salivary IgA is related to plasma glutamine concentrations.
***Note: Again, showing the immune system related issues of glutamine may be overhyped somewhat.
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Effect of carb intake on plasma glutamine
Int J Sport Nutr 1998 Mar;8(1):49-59 Related Articles, Links
Effect of low- and high-carbohydrate diets on the plasma glutamine and circulating leukocyte responses to exercise.
Gleeson M, Blannin AK, Walsh NP, Bishop NC, Clark AM.
School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, England.
We examined the effects of a low-carbohydrate (CHO) diet on the plasma glutamine and circulating leukocyte responses to prolonged strenuous exercise. Twelve untrained male subjects cycled for 60 min at 70% of maximal oxygen uptake on two separate occasions, 3 days apart. All subjects performed the first exercise task after a normal diet; they completed the second exercise task after 3 days on either a high-CHO diet (75 +/- 8% CHO, n = 6) or a low-CHO diet (7 +/- 4% CHO, n = 6). The low-CHO diet was associated with a larger rise in plasma cortisol during exercise, a greater fall in the plasma glutamine concentration during recovery, and a larger neutrophilia during the postexercise period. Exercise on the high-CHO diet did not affect levels of plasma glutamine and circulating leukocytes. We conclude that CHO availability can influence the plasma glutamine and circulating leukocyte responses during recovery from intense prolonged exercise.
**Note: Glutamine may yield benefits on a low carb diet, but ironically, there are also studies existing that show that glutamine is an insulogenic and can keep you out of ketosis (not like ketosis is necessary to burn fat though). If you' re a bodybuilder following a balanced diet with protein, carbohydrates and fats in several meals throughout the day, glutamine supplementation isn' t required.
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Clin Nutr 2002 Oct;21(5):423-9 Related Articles, Links
Carbohydrate supplementation during intense exercise and the immune response of cyclists.
Bacurau RF, Bassit RA, Sawada L, Navarro F, Martins E Jr, Costa Rosa LF.
Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Institute of Biomedical Sciences, University of Sao Paulo, Brazil.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of carbohydrate supplementation upon some aspects of the immune function in athletes during intense indoor cycling. METHODS: Twelve male athletes cycled for 20 min at a velocity corresponding to 90% of that obtained at the anaerobic threshold and rested for 20 min. This protocol was repeated six times. The athletes received, during the trial, water ad libitum, or a solution of carbohydrate (95% glucose polymers and 5% fructose) at 10% (w/v), 1 g kg h every 20 min, starting at the 10th minute of the first exercise period, plus extra water ad libitum. RESULTS: Exercise induced a reduction in peripheral blood mononuclear cell proliferation (37%) as well as in the production of cytokines by cultured cells (interleukin-1 (IL-1), interleukin-2 (IL-2), tumor necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) and interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma), by 37%, 35%, 26% and 16%, respectively). All of these changes were prevented by the ingestion of a carbohydrate drink by the athletes, except that in IFN-gamma production, which was equally decreased (17%) after the second trial. The concentration of plasma glutamine, an important fuel for immune cells, was decreased in the placebo group but maintained in the group that received carbohydrate. CONCLUSION: Carbohydrate supplementation affects positively the immune response of cyclists by avoiding or minimizing changes in plasma glutamine concentration
***Note: Again, showing that carbohydrates are basically protein/amino acid sparing. And also a much cheaper method of doing so. But yes, again, glutamine may be anti-catabolic on a low carb diet.
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Am J Physiol Cell Physiol 2001 Oct;281(4):C1259-65 Related Articles, Links
Effect of glutamine supplementation on exercise-induced changes in lymphocyte function.
Krzywkowski K, Petersen EW, Ostrowski K, Kristensen JH, Boza J, Pedersen BK.
Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, 2200 Copenhagen N, Denmark.
The purpose of this study was to investigate the possible role of glutamine in exercise-induced impairment of lymphocyte function. Ten male athletes participated in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind crossover study. Each athlete performed bicycle exercise for 2 h at 75% of maximum O(2) consumption on 2 separate days. Glutamine or placebo supplements were given orally during and up to 2 h postexercise. The trial induced postexercise neutrocytosis that lasted at least 2 h. The total lymphocyte count increased by the end of exercise due to increase of both CD3(+)TCR alpha beta(+) and CD3(+)TCR gamma delta(+) T cells as well as CD3(-)CD16(+)CD56(+) natural killer (NK) cells. Concentrations of CD8(+) and CD4(+) T cells lacking CD28 and CD95 on their surface increased more than those of cells expressing these receptors. Within the CD4(+) cells, only CD45RA(-) memory cells, but not CD45RA(+) naive cells, increased in response to exercise. Most lymphocyte subpopulations decreased 2 h after exercise. Glutamine supplementation abolished the postexercise decline in plasma glutamine concentration but had no effect on lymphocyte trafficking, NK and lymphokine-activated killer cell activities, T cell proliferation, catecholamines, growth hormone, insulin, or glucose. Neutrocytosis was less pronounced in the glutamine-supplemented group, but it is unlikely that this finding is of any clinical significance. This study does not support the idea that glutamine plays a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immune changes.
***Note: again, the immune issue is overhyped somewhat.
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J Biol Chem. 2000 Apr 14;275(15):10819-25. Related Articles, Links
Bimodal activation of acetyl-CoA carboxylase by glutamate.
Boone AN, Chan A, Kulpa JE, Brownsey RW.
Department of Biochemistry, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, British Columbia V6T 1Z3, Canada.
Acetyl-CoA carboxylase (ACC) catalyzes the formation of malonyl-CoA, an essential substrate for fatty acid biosynthesis and a potent inhibitor of fatty acid oxidation. Here, we provide evidence that glutamate may be a physiologically relevant activator of ACC. Glutamate induced the activation of both major isoforms of ACC, prepared from rat liver, heart, or white adipose tissue. In agreement with previous studies, a type 2A protein phosphatase contributed to the effects of glutamate on ACC. However, the protein phosphatase inhibitor microcystin LR did not abolish the effects of glutamate on ACC activity. Moreover, glutamate directly activated purified preparations of ACC when protein phosphatase activity was excluded. Phosphatase-independent ACC activation by glutamate was also reflected by polymerization of the enzyme as judged by size-exclusion chromatography. The sensitivity of ACC to direct activation by glutamate was diminished by treatment in vitro with AMP-activated protein kinase or cAMP-dependent protein kinase or by beta-adrenergic stimulation of intact adipose tissue. We conclude that glutamate, an abundant intracellular amino acid, induces ACC activation through complementary actions as a phosphatase activator and as a direct allosteric ligand for dephosphorylated ACC. This study supports the general hypothesis that amino acids fulfill important roles as signal molecules as well as intermediates in carbon and nitrogen metabolism.
***Note: here' s something of interest. The study is done with glutamate, which is not glutamine, but the two are related in a glutamine/glutamate/GABA cycle-type thing, where all three are interconvertable via various methods. The reason i' ve posted it, is because it shows that glutamate can activate ACC. ACC is responsible for converting citrate build-up into maonyl-CoA, which deactivates AMPK - something quite potent for stimulating fat burning. Suggesting that, although a small dose of glutamine (2-3g) ingested on an empty stomach may boost hGH release quite a lot (nothing really significant compared to physically injecting the stuff), too much of glutamine may cause more conversion into glutamate, which may hinder fat oxidisation. This is not a given though, of course, but a certain possibility. Also interesting since a lot of users advocate the use of large glutamine doses to help get more past the epithial cells of the inestinal lining (which takes up a lot of any ingested glutamine).
These are all just some points of interest for you to note.
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 6/18/2003 8:10:32 AM
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Robboe
Posts: 908
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From: Newcastle, UK
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Got side tracked earlier - was going to post a brief opinion of mine.
Basically, my opinion is that glutamine isn' t a " pointless" supplement per se...Well, actually, during a bulk it is a bit of a waste if you ask me, but less " pointless" and more " overrated" . People talk about the stuff like it' s angel dust and will clense what ails ya.
I' ve said from (almost) day one, when i first realised how " overrated" glutamine is that it' s not uesless, but the cost-value ratio is severely skewed. You can source much cheaper alternatives that do the same functions just as well. There are much better things to spend your cash on.
So, is glutamine use necessary? No.
Is it helpful? That depends upon the situation and how much cash you' re willing to spend.
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 7/17/2003 7:43:10 AM
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TXAggie
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Wow, really flies in the face of a lot of what I' ve been reading about " essential" supplements. Sounds like a good can of dextrose is far cheaper and just as if not more effective than a can of glut. I' ll have to tell my friends about this...
*thinks*
Thanks for the well researched info.
Maybe we can start a similar thread on those other " over hyped" supplements? 
-Bryan
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 7/17/2003 12:42:04 PM
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kthornton
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From: Texas
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The overhyped supplement thread will be a great help. I am in my early stage of training and supplements are already on my mind and my main resource is the website sale pitch. But, having resident experts with evidential and well presented opinions, we will all benefit physically and financially.
Damn nice thread here.
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 8/23/2003 12:38:11 AM
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TheDude
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I have to point out that I have come across several web pages by trainers who think that most supplements are pointless crap, who nevertheless feel that Glutamine is one of the few valuable supplements.
I also would like to point out this web page by Supplement Watch, an unbiased group dedicated to objective evaluation of supplements that accepts no advertising from companies that make or sell supplements:
http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=150
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: The Glutamine Analysis (was Need a Supplement Recco... - 10/12/2003 2:21:33 PM
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Rayco
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Some more fuel for the Glutamine debate
In a recent release of the prestigious American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, the results of a study on glutamine revealed that a single 2 gram oral dose of glutamine elevated circulating growth hormone levels by over 430%! That’s right - 430%! Keeping a consistently high level of circulating growth hormone, you are able to combat the catabolic effects of weight training, harness the anabolic activity of increased glucose and amino acid uptake, improve whole body nitrogen retention, and increase lean tissue protein accrual.
http://www.2-fit.com/miscellaneous/lglutamine.html
(in reply to DiggityDog)
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RE: The Glutamine Analysis (was Need a Supplement Recco... - 10/12/2003 3:04:53 PM
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WDNinABQ
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And how utterly typical of them to not provide a reference to the study they talk about so we can determine how applicable the results were. For all we know that was an elevation of growth hormones in infant pigs...
I did a real quick search of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition for articles mentioning glutamine or growth hormone for the years 2000-2003 and didn't find anything that looked to contain such a claim (Admittedly, I didn't read all the abstracts and I only looked at two of the papers, but I'm thinking it's OK to rule out papers such as: Effects of tuberculosis and HIV infection on whole-body protein metabolism during feeding, measured by the [15N]glycine method in my lazy-mans search...)
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(in reply to Rayco)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 10/12/2003 8:47:21 PM
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Rayco
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In case anyone is interested.
http://www.metabolicresponse.com/docs/L-GLUTAMINE.doc
The amino acid L-glutamine is critical for maintaining lean muscle mass.
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 10/13/2003 12:44:51 PM
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abear
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From: Louisiana
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i believe that study came out in 1995.
i've been using glutamine since 1996. studies about muscle performance and glycogen resynthesis just dont cut it.
i perfer to do my own research. nothing beats personal experience.
(in reply to Rayco)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 12/7/2003 10:31:48 AM
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ms
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abear
i've been using glutamine since 1996
and how is your health now?
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 12/8/2003 5:12:03 AM
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abear
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doing fine, how sweet of you to ask. 
(in reply to ms)
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RE: Need a Supplement Recommendation - 12/17/2003 3:02:19 PM
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Powerhaus
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Glutamine is the most common amino acid in the sequence for muscle tissue. It also happens to be the most common amino acid in MANY proteins. So while you really NEED it, you also GET it in your food.
Also, there is interconversion between glutamine and glucose. If your blood sugar is low and you take glutamine, odds are most of it will be converted to glucose (a.k.a. sugar). I don't bother taking glutamine unless I am also eating carbohydrates. Carbs are a lot cheaper than glutamine power. Supposedly your body can also convert glucose into glutamine...that sounds just dandy to me, but the way to make that happen would be to have lots of carbs and not enough protein in your system, and I don't think that's the best way to build muscle.
Overall, it seems to me that the "buzz" on new supplements is a lot less than it was a few years ago. Probably just as well.
(in reply to abear)
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