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 NROL vs. Rippetoe

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brihead301

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NROL vs. Rippetoe - Friday, June 27, 2008 8:11 AM
Hey, I'm sure you have all noticed that for almost a year when I first joined this forum, I was preaching NROL to everyone.   Now I'm preaching Rippetoe's routine for everyone to do.  Well, they are both great routines, but after experiencing them both first hand, I would like to write up a little comparison on both of them.

First off, let it be known that almost anything WILL work.  If you lift heavy things consistently, for an extended period of time and eat a lot of food, your body will adapt to the difficult tasks you put it through.  It will get bigger and stronger, and you will build muscle, burn fat, and it will become more efficient at doing the difficult tasks it is constantly required to do. 

However, although almost anything will work, there are certainly much faster and more effective ways of training to allow you to reach your goals faster.

NROL - The New Rules of Lifting
 
Excellent book!  It taught me how to lift properly.  I highly recommend it to anyone just starting out. 

The program(s) in the book are pure genious.  First off, the routines are made up of all compound exercises, which you really can't go wrong with. 

The main thing about this program though, is that it will make you a great "all-around" athlete.  Because of the constant changing of reps, sets, rest times, and exercises, your body is constantly forced to make new adaptations.  There is no main focus in this program.  You get bigger, stronger, leaner, more endurance, and cardio.  Some days you do heavy 5x5's, and some days you do relatively light 3x15's, etc... The routine switches completely every few weeks, and the sets, reps, exercises, and rest times also change.  Sometimes it has you working on getting your max lifts up as high as possible, and sometimes it has you doing circuit training. 

All-in-all it is a very well thought out program, which targets all your weaknesses.  It hits every type of rep range, and it doesn't neglect any aspect of training (endurance, fat-loss, strength, hypertrophy, etc....)  Sometimes you'll want to puke because of the high-rep, short rest time routines, and other times you'll go balls out and lift heavy a** weights for low reps. 

It's a great program if you want to get into great all-around shape.

Rippetoe's Novice Routine from "Starting Strength"

I was a little skeptical about doing this routine when I first heard about it.  I heard about it from another forum, and I eventually bought the book.  I mean, it only has 3 - 4 lifts per workout, and how the hell can that possibly give me all those big, pretty muscles that I so desire???  Not to mention the fact that it's called a "novice" routine .  Why on earth would I want to do a "novice" routine if I have been lifting for almost 7 years now?? I'm advanced.

To be a novice (not to be confused with a newbie) only means that you are capable of increasing the weight you use every single workout.  If you are unable to do this, then you are intermediate.  The average Joe that you see in the gym are novices, despite how long they have been training for.  If they have never done a basic, linear progression such as this one, then they are more likely then not still capable of getting novice gains. 

Well everything I was skeptical about before was complete bulls***.   This routine is balls to the wall, in your face, no bulls*** weight lifting.  It is so not a p***y routine, it's not even funny. 

The beauty and effectiveness of the program:

- Only 3 - 4 lifts per workout
- Uses sets of 5
- Uses only the most basic compound lifts
- Squat every workout
- Increases weight in small amounts every single workout
- Only uses barbells

3 - 4 lifts every workout, 3 days a week - Well recovery is one of the most important aspects of training.  You can beat the hell out of your body during one workout, then rest a day or two, and then you have to go back and do it again (only heavier).  Now, if there was like 6 or 7 BIG COMPOUND lifts per workout, how would one expect to continue to make progress for a long time?  The weight doesn't stop going up, so if you think one workout was hard....well it doesn't get any easier the next time.  Each workout starts with full, atg squats.  It is then followed by a push (OH press or Bench press, alternates every workout).  It is then followed by a pull from the ground (deadlift or powerclean, alternating every other workout).  It is then optional to add chin-ups or pull-ups at the end of each workout.  Every workout hits every muscle in your body in only 3 - 4 lifts.  And 3-4 lifts is very hard, but just enough to allow you to recover in a day or two so that you can get back in the gym and do it all over again, heavier.

Sets of 5 - Amazing rep range right there.  I didn't realize the beauty of 5's until yesterday.  I had to take a break from this routine for a little while due to a lower back injury from poor squat form (you must respect the squat).  I've been doing the same basic routine, only with 10's.  Let me tell you, 10's are not as good for constant increase in weight as 5's.  You get a good burn and pump feeling from 10's, but linear progress every workout can only last so long when doing sets of 10.  It can go much longer with 5's.  This is speaking from experience.  As we all know, different rep ranges work different systems (ie low reps for strength, medium reps for hypertrophy, high reps for endurance).  5's are the perfect mix of strength and hypertrophy (for a more detailed explanation of why this is true refer to Starting strength or Practical programming).

All compound lifts - Self explanatory.

Squat every workout - If you don't squat often, you suck.

Increases weight in small amounts every workout - The key to the program!  Every other workout has the exact same exercises, only it gets harder and harder and harder and harder every single time.  If you struggle to get through one workout, yet you still manage to do it, it only gets harder.  The weight doesn't go down, so have fun and don't be a p***y.

The program only uses barbell lifts - Barbell exercises allow you to move the most amount weight.  Every exercise incorporates just about every muscle in your entire body, with the exception of possibly the bench press.  The human body is capable of lifting some serious amounts of weight when all muscles work in coordination with one another.  Barbell training is the "old school" method, and due to the new, "high-tech" training methods, it is rare to see someone doing a program that uses only a barbell and some weights.

People will seriously start to think you are on steroids if you set your ego aside and accept the fact that "novice training" will work for you, and forget everything that you learned from bodybuilding magazines about split this, isolation that crap.  As I said, just about anything will work, but some things work better then others.  This routine will get you big and strong as an ox.  This routine and a bulk diet go hand-in-hand. 

So there you have it.  In my 7-year (or more) long training history I have only followed 2 serious routines. 

For the first 6 years, I did nothing but just go to the gym and lift, rarely increasing the weights.  I just kinda did what I though would work and took other gym rats' advice, but I stayed consistent, and it worked (somewhat)!!!  I got pretty muscular.  I didn't eat much for those 6 years, so I was pretty cut. 

I didn't start getting real results until I started following strict routines though.  So that's my comparison of the two.

A good analogy would be to compare the routines to Super Mario Brothers 2 for Nintendo.  For those of you that have played that game, you know the different strengths and weaknesses of each character:

New rules of lifting - Mario
Rippetoes - Toad
Circuit training - Luigi
Common split routines composed of lots of isolation work - Princess
<message edited by brihead301 on Friday, June 27, 2008 8:13 AM>
Squats are better than steroids
NBSFighter

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Friday, June 27, 2008 9:00 AM
So if I do isolations I will be able to fly through the air? 

MDClifter

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Friday, June 27, 2008 9:01 AM

ORIGINAL: brihead301
New rules of lifting - Mario
Rippetoes - Toad
Circuit training - Luigi
Common split routines composed of lots of isolation work - Princess


I laughed. Good post though. Now I'm going to have to decide between going back to HST or trying Rippetoe's when I decide its time to bulk.
Age: 26 Height: 5'10
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Current weight: 172lbs.
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brihead301

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Friday, June 27, 2008 9:05 AM

ORIGINAL: NBSFighter

So if I do isolations I will be able to fly through the air? 


Yes, but only for 5 seconds at a time.
 
MDClifter, they are both good routines, but I only did one cycle of HST, and when I got down to the 5 rep range, I stuck with that range (which is basically Rip's routine), and I'm still in that range. 
 
The only real difference is that HST starts with high reps and gradually decreases reps, allowing for continual linear progress. 
 
The argument of what's the best rep range to do then comes into account.  I have found 5's to be great for pure strength and mass building.
<message edited by brihead301 on Friday, June 27, 2008 9:08 AM>
Squats are better than steroids
NBSFighter

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Friday, June 27, 2008 10:01 AM

ORIGINAL: brihead301


ORIGINAL: NBSFighter

So if I do isolations I will be able to fly through the air? 


Yes, but only for 5 seconds at a time.

 
lol

trubeginner

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:39 AM


Every workout hits every muscle in your body in only 3 - 4 lifts.


Well, from the list of exercises you posted, your calves will not be worked.
 
Good post by the way. Makes me consider doing Rippetoe's program after I have finished with this HST training.
 
I think squatting 3 times  a week will certainly blow my quads, which I need big time.
 
One question: what should I do to keep on adding weights to the squat? I find that I really suck at squats, and feel like it's freaking hard to keep on adding weights onto the bar. What if I stall early?
<message edited by trubeginner on Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:42 AM>
5'8.1"
Age = 19
started in February 16th 2007: 58kg (127.6lbs)
current : around 78-79kg (171.6lb-173.8lb)

I don't train body parts these days... I train basic compound exercises...
NBSFighter

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:19 AM
For any beginner, calves are worked plenty from squats.  Just because you aren't lifting your heels off the ground doesn't mean your calves aren't getting hit.

Soccerking3000

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:24 AM
I've found an awesome exercise for calves is power cleans if anyone was wondering lol
TheSilverFox

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:37 AM

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

I've found an awesome exercise for calves is power cleans if anyone was wondering lol


+1. agreed.  

power cleans
squats

and there's a SLEW of different calf exercise variations that can be performed
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trubeginner

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:42 AM

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

I've found an awesome exercise for calves is power cleans if anyone was wondering lol

In which part of the movement are the calves worked in a power clean?
 
5'8.1"
Age = 19
started in February 16th 2007: 58kg (127.6lbs)
current : around 78-79kg (171.6lb-173.8lb)

I don't train body parts these days... I train basic compound exercises...
TheSilverFox

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 8:49 AM

ORIGINAL: trubeginner


ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

I've found an awesome exercise for calves is power cleans if anyone was wondering lol

In which part of the movement are the calves worked in a power clean?



you're supposed to flex the calves up, and pull the traps up at the same time and flex the hips forward to get the weight up before you turn the wrists.

i see so many guys doing it like it's a reverse curl.(which is WRONG)  i'm still a newb to these, but i've read up and watched some movies.     

it's almost like jumping off your tip toes and pulling the bar up with your traps while using the momentum from your legs(calves) to  get that weight moving.
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NBSFighter

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:06 AM

ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000

I've found an awesome exercise for calves is power cleans if anyone was wondering lol


that too.  Wasn't thinking about cleans haha

Soccerking3000

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:12 AM
yea great exercise but tire the crap outta me seriously, i'll do a rep take a second, set and then do another.  I seriously can't just bang them out one after another
NBSFighter

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 9:14 AM
Oh yeah I know what you mean.  Those sum bitches are tough

brihead301

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RE: NROL vs. Rippetoe - Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:01 AM

ORIGINAL: trubeginner

One question: what should I do to keep on adding weights to the squat? I find that I really suck at squats, and feel like it's freaking hard to keep on adding weights onto the bar. What if I stall early?


I definately recommend buying the book to learn how to squat.  It explains all the other exercises in great detail too, but for me it was my squat that needed the most work, so that's where I benefitted most. 

This program has you doing FULL squats, which works just about every muscle in your legs.  I'd say to start very low.  If you can now squat 225 lbs., reset back to like 135 or less, and learn how to full squat properly (the book really helps).  From there add on 5 lbs. per workout. 

The typical weights that I add to all my lifts every workout is

squat - 5 lbs.
deadlift - 10 lbs./workout at first until I hit 340, now I just add 5 lbs./workout
powerclean - 5 lbs. at first, now I add 1 - 2 lbs. per workout
OH press/bench press - 5 lbs. at first, now I add 0.5 - 1 lb. per workout if possible
pull-ups/chin-ups - I either do 2 sets of bodyweight to failure or I do 3x5 with 25 lbs. attatched to me

Always start conservatively, so you can keep the progression moving forward for as long as possible.
 
Edit: And definately don't neglect power cleans.  They are an amazing exercise! 
Squats are better than steroids
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