Pull up specialization (from smoundzou)

This journals not really going to be tracking everything i'm doing...just pull ups so i have a place to put down how many i did.  I'm going to be doing this while i do H-1 for 6 weeks so heres the plan:

saturday
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives
cable rows
dumbell rows

sunday
Lower body

Monday
Off

Tuesday
Pull downs 1x10 superset with 1x10 30% less weight (done 2x)
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives
cable rows
dumbell rows

Wednesday
off

Thursday
Lower body
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives

Friday
off

repeat

Now this just involves my normal routine of 2x upper body and 2x lower body with smoundzou's pull up methods on both upper body days and 1 extra day
i'll continue to add another day for weeks 2, 3, and 4 and by week 4 and through week 6 i'll be at this:


saturday
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives
cable rows
dumbell rows

sunday
Lower body
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives

Monday
Off

Tuesday
Pull downs 1x10 superset with 1x10 30% less weight (done 2x)
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives
cable rows
dumbell rows


Wednesday
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives

Thursday
Lower body
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives

Friday
Pull ups 2xfailure, 2x4-8 negatives


If smoundzou reads this i put a question in the routine and as for rest times do u suggest anything in particular?    

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

cool.  i'll be interested to see how you progress with this david.

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

cool.  i'll be interested to see how you progress with this david.

Yea i'm looking forward to trying it. it seems like so much but i've heard of similar methods (except with those methods that was the only back work you would be doing, this is going to be in addition to my workouts) and smoundzou seemed to be very confident in the results it should bring.

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

Just so you know.. I don't want to take credit for something that's not mine.. I didn't invent this.. LOL... but what ever you do.. Listen to your own body and how it repsonds.. if the volume is too much.. you'll know.. just adjust accordingly.. I honestly don't see you having any problem at all with it though.. good luck

ORIGINAL: David1991

ORIGINAL: TheSilverFox

cool.  i'll be interested to see how you progress with this david.

Yea i'm looking forward to trying it. it seems like so much but i've heard of similar methods (except with those methods that was the only back work you would be doing, this is going to be in addition to my workouts) and smoundzou seemed to be very confident in the results it should bring.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Just so you know.. I don't want to take credit for something that's not mine.. I didn't invent this.. LOL... but what ever you do.. Listen to your own body and how it repsonds.. if the volume is too much.. you'll know.. just adjust accordingly.. I honestly don't see you having any problem at all with it though.. good luck

thanks, hopefully i can get the expected results. Where did u get this method from?

also, could u address the 2 questions about it?
one was if i should do pull ups or lat pulldowns first on the days u said i should do both
and the other is about if theres a particular rest time i should follow

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

one was if i should do pull ups or lat pulldowns first on the days u said i should do both
and the other is about if theres a particular rest time i should follow

On the day you do the heavy lat pulldowns followed by lighter pulldowns.. do them first followed by the pullups and negatives..

Remember, you're only doing 2 supersets of pulldowns.. heavy / light, then repeat.. if you're too tired to do pullups.. just do 2 more sets of negatives..

I would just take moderate rest times.. if you're able to follow the NROL rest times, that's fine.. if you need more time.. take it..

The guy that taught me this structure was an old about 65years old.. I was in my early 20s and this guy could do more pullups than any body I have ever seen.. I never really focused onthem much and started talking to him one day about it.. he said he learned it from a DI when he was in the military.. But I can guarantee you if you follow it.. it works..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

this looks interesting, i may try it later in the summer when i have more time.

Smoundzou why is it that you can't really overtrain your back with pullups? I mean no doubt this is very high volume and frequency so why is it different for the body than doing rows or bench this often?

(I'm not doubting the method, I'm just curious as to how this wouldn't lead to overtraining)

How quickly do you think the pullups would increase if you followed this starting with only being able to do 5 correctly?

If a person is doing body weight pullups, it's virtually impossible to overtrain.. Over training is a very overused word in bodybuilding. 
 
In order for a person to reach and over-training state.. they have to fatigue the central nervous system, which fortunately isn't an easy task. 
 
Before a person reaches an over training state.. they will over-reach.. If symptoms are ignored then it's possible for it to turn into CNS fatigue, (over-training).. But as i said this is no easy task and can take up wards of 12 plus months.. training with heavy weight, multiple days weekly..
 
We don't really give the body credit for what it is capable of adapting to...... training the large muscles of the back 2-3 times weekly with a moderate workout like NROL and a daily regiment of pullups is about the last thing in the world that will lead to over-training..  
 
Ask yourself this... do you actually know anyone who has had CNS fatigue?   I'm 45, and I've never actually met anyone.. only read about it on different forums.. I asked the question a while back here.. and I think one person responded saying.. "they thought they had CNS at one point but wasn't sure".... If you have CNS fatigue.. you'll know it.. it's not something you would have to get on a forum and ask someone about.. to get confirmation.. LOL
 
As far as progress.. it depends on how much you put into it.. if starting out.. you're capable of doing 2-3 sets 2-4 bodyweight pullups.. I would say give it a month and you'll be cranking out 3 sets of 10.. with no problem... but it takes dedication and doing the routine.. negatives sound easy.. but after 2 or 3.. dropping from that bar slowly suddenly becomes the most torturous pain imaginable.. the key is doing the negatives with strict form.. very slowly.. make it burn..

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

As far as progress.. it depends on how much you put into it.. if starting out.. you're capable of doing 2-3 sets 2-4 bodyweight pullups.. I would say give it a month and you'll be cranking out 3 sets of 10.. with no problem...

thats cool, hopefully i'll be able to get 3x10 without too much problem by the end of the 6 weeks. the most i've ever been able to do that i can remember is 1x12 with a supinated grip and about 1x7-8 with a pronated grip

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

Ok i start this tomorrow, looking forward to it.

NROL is set up so that u have 6 exercises and each is supersetted with an antagonistic muscle group. I was thinking there was always only 3 sets each time so for days i have pulldowns to do to i'll just do back first instead of chest and have one extra and i will only do the negatives so it's a total of 4 sets but now that i think about it tomorrow is a 5x5 so i'm not sure.
I'll probably end up still just doing the 4 sets because it still works out easily that way, i'll be able to keep it like that without doing 2 back sets in a row regardless if its a 5x5, 4x10, or 3x15 day, and also i dont think i'll be able to get too many, if any, pullups done after those pulldowns lol

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

Day one, 5/31/08: (gym, thin bar)

I followed the rest times of NROL today so basically it was a set of pullups followed by bench followed by pull ups, etc...with 90sec. between each set thats a little over 3min. between sets

1st set: 5 reps
2nd set: 5 reps
1 set negatives: 5 reps
2nd set negatives: 5 reps

i could have gotten a few more on the negatives but i wanted to keep it the same as the number of pull ups and i can progress with them in following workouts

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

6/2/08: (home)

thinking about it now i probably should have found a way to spread this out a little better but the only option that wouldnt put it next to an upper body day would be on lower body day. but theres deadlifts there and if i do it before it'll screw up the deads and if i do it after i'll be weaker so i dont think it's too bad.

1st set: 6 reps
2nd set: 5 reps
1 set negatives: 7 reps
2nd set negatives: 6 reps

ok so some improvement today. negatives werent to failure last time, this time they were definitely close, i probably should have done 6,6 but i dont think it matters much.

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

i havea  question if you are doing sets of 30% less weight supersetted how would one do this if you are only using bodyweight at that point and not added weight?

edit: nvm saw it was lat pulldowns disregard my post lol

6/3/08 (gym, thick bar)

1st set: 6 reps
2nd set: 2 reps
1 set negatives: 7 reps
2nd set negatives: 5 reps

 
well that sucks. right away though i could tell i wasnt going to get as many. I think it had to do with 2 things. first i was supersetting it with bench like the first time but only got 30 sec. rest between sets instead of 90 (but it still adds up to about 1.5min) and i was using the thicker bar to grap onto which does slightly affect it. also i did them 2 days in a row.
I did them yesterday with an even thicker bar but that was at my house without supersetting anything else so maybe my body just wasnt as tired, im not completely sure though.

Duke of the Emancipation Detoxification

Watch out with the bar grab it right with any pulling movement try to have the bar really close to the fingers to avoid them callus formations and ruining the reps. Sometimes jumping to it will mess me up on grabbing it right and end up having to suffer the pain on my hands with reduced reps.