RE: Loose change - 9/11
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 2:16:33 PM
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shadow of a doubt
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Claiming that thousands of people would have had to been involved in the secrecy if the government were involved is not plausible. Look for example at the bombing of Pearl Harbor...we found out years later that a few select people were involved with keeping information quite thus pretty much letting Japan bomb our military base. All to justify going into WWII. There were many other reasons to go into WWII in my own opinion, but we waited it out. False flag operations to justify the Military Indistrial Complex.
(in reply to _Virtuoso_)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 2:41:46 PM
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Soccerking3000
Posts: 1979
Joined: 7/11/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadow of a doubt
Claiming that thousands of people would have had to been involved in the secrecy if the government were involved is not plausible. Look for example at the bombing of Pearl Harbor...we found out years later that a few select people were involved with keeping information quite thus pretty much letting Japan bomb our military base. All to justify going into WWII. There were many other reasons to go into WWII in my own opinion, but we waited it out. False flag operations to justify the Military Indistrial Complex.
yes its been known that australia informed the US that japan had launched a large fleet towards pearl harbor and guess who "ignored" it?
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 9:04:47 AM
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shadow of a doubt
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Joined: 4/30/2008
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One reason that few remember WTC Building 7’s collapse is that after September 11th it has been treated, both in the media and in The 9/11 Commission Report, as if it didn’t happen. The collapse of Building 7 at 5:20PM EDT was in itself a major event; the sudden and unexplained fall to earth of a 47-story steel-framed skyscraper is certainly news. Why has there been almost no mention of this in the U.S. corporate mass-media, and why was there no mention of Building 7’s collapse in The 9/11 Commission Report? These are questions of great significance, and they cry out for answers. To be able to approach any kind of explanation, however, first some pertinent and verified facts of the Building 7 aspect of 9/11 need to be scrutinized.
The following eleven facts have been compiled from the research of reputable sources – those who have dared to question and have devoted innumerable hours into discovering what really happened on 9/11.
FACT 1: WTC Building 7 was one of the largest buildings in downtown Manhattan. It was 47 stories tall, about half the height of the Towers, and took up an entire city block. It was 300 feet from the closest Twin Tower (the North Tower, WTC 1), and was a steel-framed, concrete structure.
FACT 2: WTC Building 7 – on its 23rd floor – housed an Emergency Command Center for the City of New York that Mayor Rudolph Giuliani had built in the mid-1990’s. On the morning of September 11th, Mayor Giuliani did not go “to his Command Center – with its clear view of the Twin Towers – but to a makeshift, street-level headquarters at 75 Barkley Street.” WTC 7 also held the offices of numerous government agencies, including the U.S. Department of Defense, the CIA, the Secret Service, the IRS, and the Security and Exchange Commission. Late 2001 was the time of “the height of the investigation into Enron, so the majority of Enron’s SEC filings were likely destroyed when World Trade Center 7 came down.”
FACT 3: WTC Building 7 was not hit by airplane or significant debris on September 11th. It had been evacuated after the planes hit the towers. By the afternoon of September 11th, there were a few small fires of unknown origin evident in the building, and these small fires could be seen in only a few of the hundreds and hundreds of windows in the building.
FACT 4: On 11 September 2001, at 5:20PM, EDT, World Trade Center Building 7 suddenly and rapidly collapsed. Beginning with the penthouse, all 47 stories of it imploded into its own footprint in less than seven seconds. Three different videos of Building 7’s vertical collapse – two from CBS video broadcasts, and one from an NBC news camera.
FACT 5: On 16 September , NASA flew an airplane over the World Trade Center site, recorded infrared radiation coming from the ground, and created a thermal map. The U.S. Geological Survey analyzed this data, and determined the actual temperature of the rubble. This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F. This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.
FACT 6: Fire Engineering magazine is the 125-year-old paper-of-record of the fire engineering community. Bill Manning, editor-in-chief, wrote an Editor’s Opinion in the January, 2002 edition. His editorial, Selling Out the Investigation, pointed out that destruction of evidence – the hurried removal of rubble which should be examined by investigators – is illegal. He also issued a “call to action”. To quote excerpts:
“For more than three months, structural steel from the World Trade Center has been and continues to be cut up and sold for scrap. Crucial evidence that could answer many questions … is on the slow boat to China …”
FACT 7: In May of 2002, FEMA published their report #403 titled World Trade Center Building Performance Study. This report claims that the fires caused the building to collapse, but that the specifics of how this is supposed to have occurred “…remain unknown at this time.”
FACT 8: The collapse of WTC Building 7 shows five characteristics of a controlled demolition:
1 - It “dropped directly into its own footprint in a smooth, vertical motion”;
2 - It “collapsed completely in less than seven seconds”;
3 - Dust streamed out of the upper floors of Building 7 early in its collapse”;
4 - WTC 7’s roof inverted toward its middle as the collapse progressed”; and
5 - “WTC 7’s rubble was mostly confined to the block on which the building stood.”
FACT 9: “Larry Silverstein is a rather large player within the realms of 21st Century real estate, finance, and politics.” He had taken out a long lease on the World Trade Center only six weeks before 9/11. In a PBS documentary entitled ‘America Rebuilds’, originally aired in September of 2002, Silverstein made the following statement about Building 7:
‘I remember getting a call from the, er, fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.” And they made that decision to pull, and we watched the building collapse.’”
FACT 10: “It is inconceivable that anyone could be running around placing explosives in exactly the right places all within seven hours. In fact, implosions take a minimum of two weeks and up to two months to plan and place the charges. The fire department of New York does not even train their personnel to do controlled demolition. They are done by highly skilled experienced specialists who plan and test far ahead.”
FACT 11: “… [George W.] Bush’s brother, Marvin Bush, and his cousin, Wirt Walker III, were principles in the company [Stratesec, formerly named Securacom] that was in charge of security for the World Trade Center, with Walker being the CEO from 1999 until January 2002.”18
In summation: A major aspect of 9/11 has been excluded from the entire U.S. media after September 11th, and was also omitted from The 9/11 Commission Report. This was the sudden fall to earth, on September 11th, 2001, of World Trade Center Building 7. Not hit by airplane or significant debris, 300 feet from the closest Twin Tower, and with just a few small fires burning within it, at 5:20PM EDT this massive concrete and steel-framed 47-story skyscraper imploded into its own footprint in less than seven seconds. Its rapid implosion had all of the characteristics of a controlled demolition, and the World Trade Center leaseholder, Larry Silverstein, stated in so many words that the building had been collapsed by demolition.
It takes weeks, if not months, to prepare the demolition of a building as large as WTC 7; this implosion could not have been engineered and implemented in seven chaotic hours on September 11th. Therefore, a question emerges:
Who had the means and expertise to engineer such a demolition and acquire needed materiel, and who had access to WTC Building 7 PRIOR TO September 11, 2001 in order to place the explosives?
An inquiry into the answer to this question might be a good place to begin a search for the real perpetrators of 9/11. Do we, the citizens of the United States, have the courage and honesty necessary to initiate an actual investigation, or will we continue living a Lie – and reap the consequences?
(in reply to chrisshepherd)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 12:18:25 PM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadow of a doubt
FACT 5: On 16 September , NASA flew an airplane over the World Trade Center site, recorded infrared radiation coming from the ground, and created a thermal map. The U.S. Geological Survey analyzed this data, and determined the actual temperature of the rubble. This map shows that five days after the collapse of Building 7, the surface temperature of a section of its rubble was 1,341º F. This high a temperature is indicative of the use of explosives.
I don't have time to respond to all of that nonsense you posted, but I'll just pull this one "fact" out as an example of the kind of stupidity that's being peddled here. A high residual temperature in the debris absolutely does not indicate the use of explosives; it excludes it as a possibility.
The thing that makes explosives "explosive" is that they burn super fast, particularly the sort of high explosives that are used in demolition. Because they burn so fast - explosively fast - they don't leave behind as much residual heat as something that burns slower like jet fuel (which is basically kerosene), building materials, etc. Take for instance, fireworks. If you light a firecracker, it detonates, but the shredded bits left over are not hot. A sparkler, which is much less violent, leaves behind a very hot wire which can burn you. Similarly, you could easily heat up a piece of metal red or orange hot with something as small as a candle flame, but it would be impossible with a similarly small amount of explosive, like a firecracker or a small quantity of black powder.
The fact that the debris was so hot days after the collapse indicates that there was a hot, slow burning, long duration fire. Debris from an intentional explosive demolition of a building would never have that much heat left over for that long.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 12:46:56 PM
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Yet
Posts: 5108
Joined: 3/19/2007
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If debris from demolition was that hot after five days, how would a cleanup crew be able to go in about 4 hours after a building is detonated to start cleaning up?
Honestly, I think this guy saw two or three conspiracy specials, and took the information provided as gold, without checking into anything.
_____________________________
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
In reality all of us here are playing out this scenario just different goals, we put our bodies through god awful time spent working out and eating to a near perfect point for years to MAYBE reach a goal.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 12:51:47 PM
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Soccerking3000
Posts: 1979
Joined: 7/11/2007
Status: online
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i personally think the temperature is irrelevant, regardless if the tower collapsed on its own or it was brought down by a controlled demolition, as the pieces fall and collide with each other at great speeds and pressure due to gravity everything will heat up. The friction alone can melt metal, as the pressure increases at the bottom of the structure so does the temperature which explains the pools of molten metal at the base of each tower. It does not matter if it was blown up or fell on its own.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 1:04:00 PM
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Yet
Posts: 5108
Joined: 3/19/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000
i personally think the temperature is irrelevant, regardless if the tower collapsed on its own or it was brought down by a controlled demolition, as the pieces fall and collide with each other at great speeds and pressure due to gravity everything will heat up. The friction alone can melt metal, as the pressure increases at the bottom of the structure so does the temperature which explains the pools of molten metal at the base of each tower. It does not matter if it was blown up or fell on its own.
In a controlled Demolition though, cleanup begins almost immediately. While the bottom is hot, it's rare that they'll find any sort of molten at the bottom of the rubble. Also, in many cases the heat isn't significant enough to stop the cleanup crew.
_____________________________
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
In reality all of us here are playing out this scenario just different goals, we put our bodies through god awful time spent working out and eating to a near perfect point for years to MAYBE reach a goal.
(in reply to Soccerking3000)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 1:32:51 PM
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_Virtuoso_
Posts: 1486
Joined: 10/4/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisshepherd
quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
Chris why are people who believe it was a plot by the goverment retarded? It's simply personal opinion in what you choose to believe with very little fact from either side. Your posts in this thread are beyond ignorant.
Why? Well its like this... if I have one quarter sitting on a desk in a crowded classroom, every one can see my one quarter, everyone knows I have one quarter. Someone takes my one quarter.
They pick it up beating the gravity that was holding it to my desk and earning 25 cents in the process. If I scream loud and hard enough that that person stole two quarters from me, I may find a few people who say 'well it is possible you never know.' - those people are just stupid.
Even though I clearly had one quarter. Everyone saw what happened, most people went 'that guy took his quarter. I saw it it makes sense the way it went into his hand and then his pocket.' - those people not stupid.
But if I scream about how martians zapped up my 50 cents and planted the one quarter in the theif's pocket and kept the other, you know who's going to believe me then?
All the retarded kids.
point. set. match.
I started typing out why this isn't the same at all, then I decided much easier to just put;
This post = fail.
_____________________________
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great referance point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me. Never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
(in reply to chrisshepherd)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 1:46:16 PM
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Yet
Posts: 5108
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisshepherd
quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
Chris why are people who believe it was a plot by the goverment retarded? It's simply personal opinion in what you choose to believe with very little fact from either side. Your posts in this thread are beyond ignorant.
Why? Well its like this... if I have one quarter sitting on a desk in a crowded classroom, every one can see my one quarter, everyone knows I have one quarter. Someone takes my one quarter.
They pick it up beating the gravity that was holding it to my desk and earning 25 cents in the process. If I scream loud and hard enough that that person stole two quarters from me, I may find a few people who say 'well it is possible you never know.' - those people are just stupid.
Even though I clearly had one quarter. Everyone saw what happened, most people went 'that guy took his quarter. I saw it it makes sense the way it went into his hand and then his pocket.' - those people not stupid.
But if I scream about how martians zapped up my 50 cents and planted the one quarter in the theif's pocket and kept the other, you know who's going to believe me then?
All the retarded kids.
point. set. match.
I started typing out why this isn't the same at all, then I decided much easier to just put;
This post = fail.
At least you know your post was a fail.
Chris' post made perfect sense.
_____________________________
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
In reality all of us here are playing out this scenario just different goals, we put our bodies through god awful time spent working out and eating to a near perfect point for years to MAYBE reach a goal.
(in reply to _Virtuoso_)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 2:16:14 PM
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chrisshepherd
Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: North Vernon, IN
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisshepherd
quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
Chris why are people who believe it was a plot by the goverment retarded? It's simply personal opinion in what you choose to believe with very little fact from either side. Your posts in this thread are beyond ignorant.
Why? Well its like this... if I have one quarter sitting on a desk in a crowded classroom, every one can see my one quarter, everyone knows I have one quarter. Someone takes my one quarter.
They pick it up beating the gravity that was holding it to my desk and earning 25 cents in the process. If I scream loud and hard enough that that person stole two quarters from me, I may find a few people who say 'well it is possible you never know.' - those people are just stupid.
Even though I clearly had one quarter. Everyone saw what happened, most people went 'that guy took his quarter. I saw it it makes sense the way it went into his hand and then his pocket.' - those people not stupid.
But if I scream about how martians zapped up my 50 cents and planted the one quarter in the theif's pocket and kept the other, you know who's going to believe me then?
All the retarded kids.
point. set. match.
I started typing out why this isn't the same at all, then I decided much easier to just put;
This post = fail.
ROFL the fact that you even started to type out why a story about 25 cents, aliens, and retarded kids, isn't the same as 9/11, well that just proves my point... again.
_____________________________
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http://www.myspace.com/chrisshepherd
(in reply to _Virtuoso_)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 2:30:43 PM
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shadow of a doubt
Posts: 20
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
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They must find it difficult...those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority.
(in reply to chrisshepherd)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 3:05:52 PM
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Nm0ney34
Posts: 820
Joined: 11/19/2006
Status: offline
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Sigh...
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisshepherd
quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisshepherd
quote:
ORIGINAL: _Virtuoso_
Chris why are people who believe it was a plot by the goverment retarded? It's simply personal opinion in what you choose to believe with very little fact from either side. Your posts in this thread are beyond ignorant.
Why? Well its like this... if I have one quarter sitting on a desk in a crowded classroom, every one can see my one quarter, everyone knows I have one quarter. Someone takes my one quarter.
They pick it up beating the gravity that was holding it to my desk and earning 25 cents in the process. If I scream loud and hard enough that that person stole two quarters from me, I may find a few people who say 'well it is possible you never know.' - those people are just stupid.
Even though I clearly had one quarter. Everyone saw what happened, most people went 'that guy took his quarter. I saw it it makes sense the way it went into his hand and then his pocket.' - those people not stupid.
But if I scream about how martians zapped up my 50 cents and planted the one quarter in the theif's pocket and kept the other, you know who's going to believe me then?
All the retarded kids.
point. set. match.
I started typing out why this isn't the same at all, then I decided much easier to just put;
This post = fail.
ROFL the fact that you even started to type out why a story about 25 cents, aliens, and retarded kids, isn't the same as 9/11, well that just proves my point... again.
_____________________________
www.Nikdesigns.com
(in reply to chrisshepherd)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 3:22:18 PM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadow of a doubt
It takes weeks, if not months, to prepare the demolition of a building as large as WTC 7; this implosion could not have been engineered and implemented in seven chaotic hours on September 11th. Therefore, a question emerges:
Yes, a question does emerge. How could such an operation have occurred in a working office building over weeks or months without it being noticed by any of the thousands of people who work in or around the building? It's not like the rigging could have been hidden in a utility closet.
quote:
They must find it difficult...those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority.
Sorry, bub, but the cognitive dissonance is all on your side of the table.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 3:38:57 PM
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Yet
Posts: 5108
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline
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Damn man, Jheft just keeps dishing out the pwn.
_____________________________
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
In reality all of us here are playing out this scenario just different goals, we put our bodies through god awful time spent working out and eating to a near perfect point for years to MAYBE reach a goal.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 3:51:06 PM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
Status: offline
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It's too easy. 9/11 conspiracy theorists are worse than Creationists. Hell, they're worse than the Moon hoax freaks.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to Yet)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 4:00:05 PM
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Yet
Posts: 5108
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline
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Why did the flag wave then? I'm just curious I've never actually seen the video.
_____________________________
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
In reality all of us here are playing out this scenario just different goals, we put our bodies through god awful time spent working out and eating to a near perfect point for years to MAYBE reach a goal.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 4:08:31 PM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
Status: offline
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Cause it had a metal rod running across the top to hold it up and make it look nice and the astronaut was twisting the pole into the ground to make it stand up. It continued to sway a little bit for a second or two afterwards because there was no air to dampen the movement. After it was placed and the astronauts were no longer touching it, it didn't move.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to Yet)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/3/2008 4:10:25 PM
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_Virtuoso_
Posts: 1486
Joined: 10/4/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Yet
At least you know your post was a fail.
Chris' post made perfect sense.
quote:
ORIGINAL: chrisshepherd
ROFL the fact that you even started to type out why a story about 25 cents, aliens, and retarded kids, isn't the same as 9/11, well that just proves my point... again.
Replies like these make me ashamed to be part of the forum.
_____________________________
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great referance point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me. Never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
(in reply to Yet)
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