RE: Loose change - 9/11
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:17:05 AM
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jheft
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There is, in fact, nothing particularly suspicious about the collapse of of WTC #7. For one, it was substantially damaged during the collapse of the North Tower. It was also on fire for hours after that. It was obviously on fire when I was watching this live on TV.
Furthermore, controlled demolition of a building requires weeks of preparation. Even ignoring that, we'd have to assume that the hundreds of firefighters who worked on rescue operations in that building somehow missed that it was wired for demolition. The firefighters, in fact, were well aware that the building had been structurally compromised by falling debris and fire and was increasingly at risk for collapse, which is why they were evacuated.
Again, the "controlled demolition" theory for WTC 7 requires us to accept that all the firefighters and other rescue workers who worked on the building that day are somehow "in on the plot". What, pray tell, do they have to gain from participating in such a conspiracy?
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:19:59 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 7819
Joined: 5/31/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
There is, in fact, nothing particularly suspicious about the collapse of of WTC #7. For one, it was substantially damaged during the collapse of the North Tower. It was also on fire for hours after that. It was obviously on fire when I was watching this live on TV.
Furthermore, controlled demolition of a building requires weeks of preparation. Even ignoring that, we'd have to assume that the hundreds of firefighters who worked on rescue operations in that building somehow missed that it was wired for demolition. The firefighters, in fact, were well aware that the building had been structurally compromised by falling debris and fire and was increasingly at risk for collapse, which is why they were evacuated.
Again, the "controlled demolition" theory for WTC 7 requires us to accept that all the firefighters and other rescue workers who worked on the building that day are somehow "in on the plot". What, pray tell, do they have to gain from participating in such a conspiracy?
...Alison hannigan?
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11 days
quote:
original:Jane
I like boobs. Not like big messy boobs that pour out the bra when they are unleashed. Not small boobs either. Not fake ones either. A full C cup.
quote:
original:Jane
WOW! I am honored! I am finally, FINALLY in someone's sig. Twisted of all people.
Boobs=power.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:24:32 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 7819
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Actually, my last post makes a lot of sense, all conspiracy keepers' prize was alison hannigan! (or the cloned version of her from ALIEN TECHNOLOGY!, but i idgress from the original conspiracy)
That is why jheft is so pissed at the conspiracy, not because its fake, but because he was so close to nailing alison hannigan, he couldve been one of the people "in on it" but god damn it the position was filled (literally by these terms lol).
So now he has become a bitter person who tries his best to disprove the obviously correct conspiracy in order to forget the day he was told he would not be nailing alison hannigan.
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11 days
quote:
original:Jane
I like boobs. Not like big messy boobs that pour out the bra when they are unleashed. Not small boobs either. Not fake ones either. A full C cup.
quote:
original:Jane
WOW! I am honored! I am finally, FINALLY in someone's sig. Twisted of all people.
Boobs=power.
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:24:40 AM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
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There's a small hole in that theory - she's married. Also, she only likes English men. Wait! That's it! Twisted is the mastermind behind the plot!
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:27:10 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 7819
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
There's a small hole in that theory - she's married. Also, she only likes English men. Wait! That's it! Twisted is the mastermind behind the plot!
DUDE, this is even making more sense.
Me being angry about our global warming tiff, i decide to take your letter of "being in on the plot" and rip it up and laugh manically!
sure the trade centres was 7 years before that thread, but who gives a **** about the time problems, its a conspiracy facts and details dont matter
_____________________________
11 days
quote:
original:Jane
I like boobs. Not like big messy boobs that pour out the bra when they are unleashed. Not small boobs either. Not fake ones either. A full C cup.
quote:
original:Jane
WOW! I am honored! I am finally, FINALLY in someone's sig. Twisted of all people.
Boobs=power.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:29:22 AM
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shadow of a doubt
Posts: 20
Joined: 4/30/2008
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Personally, I find it extremely strange that WTC #7 collapsed much in the same way the North and South Towers did. The live footage from BBC has the reporter claiming that the #7 building had collapsed as well, but it is clearly seen in the background as still standing. If she had looked over her shoulder, she could have clearly seen it herself. I will try to post the link for you today if I can scrounge it up. It seems that the media already had pre-writtin stories of what had happened. I find it extremely odd that a other buildings, much closer in vacinity of the North and South towers didn't collapse either. The fact remains that the #7 building has to have been a controlled demolition. Do you know for fact that there were even people inside this building? Where emergency calls ever made to rescue workers to a building that wasn't even hit? Firefighters and emergency workers have nothing to gain from participating in this consipracy as you call it. They were doing their jobs that day through the hours of pandimonium.
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:29:38 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 7819
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Also, 9+11=20
IM 20 YEARS OLD!!!!
3 nice pieces of evidence already, i believe we've uncovered the truth you guys
_____________________________
11 days
quote:
original:Jane
I like boobs. Not like big messy boobs that pour out the bra when they are unleashed. Not small boobs either. Not fake ones either. A full C cup.
quote:
original:Jane
WOW! I am honored! I am finally, FINALLY in someone's sig. Twisted of all people.
Boobs=power.
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:39:40 AM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
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Listen, you're the one claiming that firefighters and rescue workers are lying about what happened that day. My point is that they had nothing to gain from participating in your alleged conspiracy, but their participation would absolutely be required in order to pull it off. They were evacuating people from many buildings in the vicinity, but somehow they completely misremember everything about what they were doing in WTC #7? Maybe it was mind-control rays?
There remains no evidence of a controlled demolition and there is much evidence to the contrary.
quote:
Do you know for fact that there were even people inside this building?
So the thousands of people who worked there just didn't show up that day? Oh wait - they're part of the conspiracy too. Pretty soon it'll include everyone except you and your dog. And Rover's looking kinda shady these days...
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:41:14 AM
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shadow of a doubt
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Hey Jheft, here is the link on WTC 7. only 6 minutes long...you may have seen this before. I think we agree on more than we think but we vary on initial reasons of why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:49:05 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 7819
Joined: 5/31/2005
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quote:
So the thousands of people who worked there just didn't show up that day? Oh wait - they're part of the conspiracy too. Pretty soon it'll include everyone except you and your dog. And Rover's looking kinda shady these days...
HAHA, jhefts one liners are classic, but this hit the spot way harder than most, this is the first 10/10 one liner by you man, but dont worry the rest are in the high 7's 8's and 9's lol
_____________________________
11 days
quote:
original:Jane
I like boobs. Not like big messy boobs that pour out the bra when they are unleashed. Not small boobs either. Not fake ones either. A full C cup.
quote:
original:Jane
WOW! I am honored! I am finally, FINALLY in someone's sig. Twisted of all people.
Boobs=power.
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:53:48 AM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
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For one, WTC #7 had partial collapses of some floors before the major collapse. It was bulging out on one side and was obviously compromised, which is why the firefighters had left the building. They knew further collapse was likely or inevitable. The news was discussing this at the time.
For two, it should be expected that a collapse of a building (no matter what the cause) would resemble a controlled demolition, since the physics involved for both are the same. The supports are knocked out or weakened, and the building collapses under its own weight.
Again, how do you explain how thousands of people involved, the firefighters, rescue workers, the people who worked in the building, the civilians in the area, all of the news media (not just reporters, and executives, but gofers, interns, camera men, script editors, and all the other little people) covering the story are in on the conspiracy yet have maintained their silence?
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 7:59:05 AM
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shadow of a doubt
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You really expect the mainstream media to tell the truth don't you? They are just as guilty. Suppression of the truth is far easier when it's the little people telling it.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 8:10:41 AM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
There's a certain personality type that's absolutely impervious to reason.... The larger and grander and more impossible the conspiracy, the tighter they'll cling to it. It isn't possible to carry on a real conversation with this kind of person.
Q.E.D. There's no reasoning with a True Believer. Confronted with numerous problems with their theory, such as the silence of thousands (millions?) of participants, they'll just add more and more people to the conspiracy and more fanciful elements to their delusions. They have their own reality -- damn the facts, they know The Truth.
(this will be my last post in this thread)
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to shadow of a doubt)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 10:45:56 AM
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_Virtuoso_
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Are people also missing the blatant slip up by bush himself on the matter? He stated that on the day of the attacks he was horrified when he watched a plane fly into the WTC in his limo on the way to a public school. Apart from the fact of the matter is, that there is footage of him in the classroom being told about the attack on the WTC and according to the goverment, that was the first time he was informed of the attack, plus the fact that no footage aired of plane 1 hitting the WTC until the next day, so if he did watch it in his limo he was watching a live feed of plane 1 hitting the tower, which obviously means he knew it was going to happen.
_____________________________
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great referance point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me. Never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 10:53:04 AM
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jheft
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OK, I lied about that being my last post - I have to respond to that one.
a) Where's the documentation of that quote?
b) For a president known more than anything for his butchery of the English language, is it not a simpler explanation that he meant to say "on his way from a public school"? If he had really known about it before-hand, don't you think he'd have been prepared to look heroic at that moment, instead of sitting there like a complete dumb-ass reading "My Pet Goat" for 8 minutes with a stupid expression on his face?
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to _Virtuoso_)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 11:10:16 AM
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_Virtuoso_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
OK, I lied about that being my last post - I have to respond to that one.
a) Where's the documentation of that quote?
b) For a president known more than anything for his butchery of the English language, is it not a simpler explanation that he meant to say "on his way from a public school"? If he had really known about it before-hand, don't you think he'd have been prepared to look heroic at that moment, instead of sitting there like a complete dumb-ass reading "My Pet Goat" for 8 minutes with a stupid expression on his face?
He said it in an announcment and it (the footage) has been on several documentary programs trying to explain the real 9/11 incident.
Also he couldn't risk trying to look heroic at that moment, because what would it have done other than raise suspicion, him making a speech so soon? He would have had to be ready to make an announcment etc. where as if he is reading 'pet my goat' with a bunch of 5 year olds, it makes it seem like he didn't know anything was out of the ordinary on that day - until informed.
_____________________________
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great referance point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me. Never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 12:26:19 PM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
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That still doesn't track. I mean, if he knew in advance but wanted to appear surprised, it might have made sense for him to be shocked when Andy Card told him the news, then maybe excused himself from the classroom a minute later; something along the lines of "I'm sorry, I'm going to have to cut my visit a bit short, presidential duties call..." I.e., the sort of thing a responsible president would have done. Instead, he sat there peeing his pants like a complete idiot for like 8 minutes after he was told.
Which of the following is more plausible:
1) President Bush, (who says something stupid every time he opens his mouth), simply mangled what he was saying when recounting the events of that day, substituting "on the way from the school" with "on the way to the school", or perhaps misremembered the exact sequence of events.
2) A conspiracy of thousands of people, airline employees, structural engineers, rescue workers, firemen, all the people who worked in WTC #7, every single person in the media, all the civilians on the scene that day, every lawmaker on capitol hill, all their staff, the families and friends of all those people have managed to maintain a conspiracy of silence to cover up an incredibly complicated crime without a single piece of hard evidence leaking out.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to _Virtuoso_)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 1:09:34 PM
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_Virtuoso_
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I don't think you would need a conspiracy of thousands though, only a few vital people at the airports, a few people who knows the most effective way to bring down the WTC and some of the people who made it possible. As to why you think you would need civillians, staff, families, people in the media, fireman or cops to be in on it I have no idea.
_____________________________
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great referance point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me. Never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 1:26:05 PM
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jheft
Posts: 3020
Joined: 1/3/2007
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Because they were witnesses. Firemen and civilians were inside WTC #7. If it had been wired for demolition, they would have noticed. It's not like you can send in three guys with explosives and set it up for controlled demolition in a couple hours.
Additionally, the claim that it was intentionally demolished rests on the notion that there is no other reasonable explanation for the collapse, such as fire and damage from falling debris. So the firemen who were in the building would have all had to have been lying about it being on fire.
Every single person involved would have either have kept their families and friends and staff in the dark, or they would have had to have been in on the conspiracy too. Secrets are simply impossible to keep when you have that many people involved.
Take, for example, the Scooter Libby fiasco. In that case, it was maybe half a dozen people in the White House that were directly involved, a similar number of reporters, and a much smaller secret (a few words leaked to reporters vs. a complicated plot to destroy buildings, airliners and murder thousands of people.) In spite of the much smaller group of people involved (hundreds or thousands of times smaller than the conspiracy that would be required to hide a 9/11 conspiracy), they still couldn't keep it under wraps.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 196.0 lbs - starting cut
2008 Results: +22.8 lbs, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world."
-- Kaiser Wilhelm II
(in reply to _Virtuoso_)
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RE: Loose change - 9/11 - 5/2/2008 1:45:47 PM
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_Virtuoso_
Posts: 1486
Joined: 10/4/2006
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I would argue those points but really cba. It's pointless argument, you are fixed on your opinion, as I am on mine. Can only hope in years to come that the truth is revealed.
_____________________________
The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great referance point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me. Never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
(in reply to jheft)
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