The Nitric Oxide Scam
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The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 7:34:20 AM
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Godzmarine
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http://www.t-nation.com/article/supplements/the_no2arginine_scam&cr=supplements
Why dish out hundreds of dollars for a placebo effect? Don't buy into the marketing hype. Save your money.
Summary • Arginine blood flow stimulators ("nitric-oxide" or "NO2" supplements) have been shown to increase vasodilation, but only in unfed people receiving enormous doses through an IV.
• Oral arginine supplementation doesn't affect blood flow.
• A dose as low as 10 grams has been associated with gastric upset when consumed orally. This dose has no significant effect on glycogen storage, even if it didn't cause diarrhea.
• Time release arginine is supposed to lead to a "perpetual pump" effect. New studies have shown this not to be the case.
• NO2 was shown to have no effect compared to a placebo on body composition or muscle strength.
• It's not possible for us to consume high enough levels of arginine to effectively increase nitric oxide levels.
• Copycat NO2 products are no better than the original supplement. In fact, those that contain glycocyamine should be avoided because of potential health concerns.
• If you think these products work for you, then you'd better look into the placebo effect.
• Arginine might temporarily elevate growth hormone levels, but only if you're able to take unrealistic doses. There's little evidence to support that this short term increase in GH would do anything for your physique anyway.
• In one study, arginine aspartate was shown to increase prolactin by an average of 75%. Prolactin is associated with decreased Testosterone levels.
• Five grams of arginine consumed during resistance exercise was shown to decrease normal exercise-induced GH output.
• The positive benefits of oral arginine supplementation can only be achieved through doses higher than the human body can handle. And most (but not all) of this effect is mediated by insulin. So if you want to have blood flow increases equivalent to a huge IV arginine infusion, just manipulate insulin through other means (which will be discussed in the next article.)
< Message edited by Godzmarine -- 3/25/2008 7:36:15 AM >
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 9:49:37 AM
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optimumhealth
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That goes for most of the other supplements out there as well, but if the placebo effect works for people and gets them to train harder and therefore get better results....is the supplement not doing it's job?? Perhaps it is like prayer to religious people, we have no proof that it does anything, but people say it makes them feel better, that it gives their life purpose and soforth.
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 9:56:50 AM
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poisondart90
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quote:
ORIGINAL: optimumhealth
That goes for most of the other supplements out there as well, but if the placebo effect works for people and gets them to train harder and therefore get better results....is the supplement not doing it's job?? Perhaps it is like prayer to religious people, we have no proof that it does anything, but people say it makes them feel better, that it gives their life purpose and soforth.
The downside of it, decreased GH levels etc. do not outweigh the placebo effect you would recieve IMO. I'd just go with caffeine or nothing at all. I prefer all natural. No stimulants.
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(in reply to optimumhealth)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 10:27:05 AM
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Godzmarine
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But people here spread around that this stuff puts more nutriants into your muscles because of increased blood flow.
These younger kids believe it and waste a lot of money.
(in reply to optimumhealth)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 11:34:39 AM
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rippedchick
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I'm not going to get in an argument over this, because I myself haven't been in a lab researching it so I don't know the truth. But it should be pointed out that T-Nation/Biotest is a supplement company and almost every article on the site markets their products.
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 11:46:48 AM
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optimumhealth
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Almost all supplement companies own the websites and magazines that push their "goods".
And I wasn't saying that it is healthier to use the products, but alot of people would not train without them, because if they knew the truth, they would see that it is alot harder than the ads make it seem. With this the case, there would be very few people in the gyms, short of the New Year's Resolution crowd in January every year.
Perhaps we can look at it as "sacrifice a few for the good of the many". If people didn't get the false hope from supplement ads, they would not buy anything at all, would not get gym memberships, and certainly would not buy exercise equipment, and then the prices would be through the roof on all of them and the rest of us would be screwed.
Main thing for you new people to training.....do it first for health....getting ripped...or large should be secondary reasons for working out. So don't rush it, there is no magic pill, it takes hard work and severe determination to achieve anything worth achieving, or everybody would be a god, and then nobody would....would they. Take pride in the work you put forth and that should be all the motivation that you need to stick with the lifestyle......enough said.
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(in reply to rippedchick)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 2:11:38 PM
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Yet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rippedchick
I'm not going to get in an argument over this, because I myself haven't been in a lab researching it so I don't know the truth. But it should be pointed out that T-Nation/Biotest is a supplement company and almost every article on the site markets their products.
I was thinking about that when I was going to start the Velocity diet. Do I actually need the protein that they sell, or can I use good ol' Body Fortress?
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quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 2:26:41 PM
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Marc David
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Yet...
The Velocity Diet as calculated using ANY protein supplement... is gonna cost you. It's not a cheap diet by any means and the author admits that. It's expensive.
Of course T-Nation wants you to use their stuff. That's fine.
You'd be best to use a comparable protein though. One that has roughly the same ratio make ups. Their brand they recommend is carbs, fats and protein. Not an all protein diet.
Look for that but sure, you can substitute. There's no way THAT protein is better for THAT diet. As long as you were to find something that meets the ratios they suggest.
IF you can do this diet for a solid month. Protein/Carb shakes for EVERY meal except one real food meal on Saturday...
Please post. If you are still alive. It's beyond hardcore. I though about it and bailed on it. Would it work? Sure.
Would it be expensive? Hell yes.
Would it be fun? Hell no.
I think you should start a specific thread in the Online Journal section for this diet if you actually do it. Day by day, step by step logging.
Do the math if you have no. How much protein will you need to do this diet? And don't run out. My calculations were around $300 or so to have an ample supply of protein to have it 5-6 times a day to meet my caloire needs. Maybe a bit more. NOT CHEAP.
But interesting. I saw Chris give the lecture about it at the ISSN conference in Las Vegas last year.
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 2:47:58 PM
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RedJeep
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Good info.
That being said...
I love supplements and I bet supplement companies love me too. It's like a kid in a candy store when I go to the supplement shop, haha. There are lots of crap supplements out there, I never buy anything that is crazy expensive and never buy anything without making sure that a good majority of people think it has helped them in some way, trying new supplements is fun, it gets me into the gym on those days when i really dont feel like being there. Buying supplements is really just like buying any other product, do we really need it? No, but it sure was damn fun using it. Haha. Though if Muscletech was a person, I sure would like to kick them square in the balls.
< Message edited by RedJeep -- 3/25/2008 2:52:43 PM >
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(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 3:41:03 PM
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Yet
Posts: 1195
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marc David
Yet...
The Velocity Diet as calculated using ANY protein supplement... is gonna cost you. It's not a cheap diet by any means and the author admits that. It's expensive.
Of course T-Nation wants you to use their stuff. That's fine.
You'd be best to use a comparable protein though. One that has roughly the same ratio make ups. Their brand they recommend is carbs, fats and protein. Not an all protein diet.
Look for that but sure, you can substitute. There's no way THAT protein is better for THAT diet. As long as you were to find something that meets the ratios they suggest.
IF you can do this diet for a solid month. Protein/Carb shakes for EVERY meal except one real food meal on Saturday...
Please post. If you are still alive. It's beyond hardcore. I though about it and bailed on it. Would it work? Sure.
Would it be expensive? Hell yes.
Would it be fun? Hell no.
I think you should start a specific thread in the Online Journal section for this diet if you actually do it. Day by day, step by step logging.
Do the math if you have no. How much protein will you need to do this diet? And don't run out. My calculations were around $300 or so to have an ample supply of protein to have it 5-6 times a day to meet my caloire needs. Maybe a bit more. NOT CHEAP.
But interesting. I saw Chris give the lecture about it at the ISSN conference in Las Vegas last year.
Yeh, I did do the calculations, and was planning on making an online journal and doing it, but then I quit my job.
I do plan on doing the Velocity Diet in a few weeks, once I get some cash together from my once a week job.
As far as costs would go, here's what I had down:
Hot Rox : 39.99x1
Surge: 29.99x2
Meta Protein: 29.99x6
Fish Oil Pills: 7.99x7
$365.23 including tax.
I'm probably going to start it at the end of April, or the beginning of May, since I'll be travelling the entire month of April, and won't have access to a gym on the weekends.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
**** happens and youre never going to look better than Yet, just deal with it
(in reply to Marc David)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 3:48:33 PM
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rippedchick
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That would be really a really nice resource if you did do the diet and kept a detailed log for the entire 4 weeks.
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(in reply to Yet)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 3:53:57 PM
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TheSilverFox
Posts: 1590
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wow.. just saw the velocity diet post.
that sounds insane. I think I could do it if i had to.
a couple of questions though
1.) what is the goal of the diet? to just get lean muscle?
2.) will any protein work, or does it have to be low-carb stuff? b/c i get lightheaded if i don't get enough food in me
3.) how are you supposed to train on this diet? weights for 3 days, and cardio on the other 3?
yet, i also wanna see this online journal if you decide to go for it. I'm intrigued
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(in reply to Yet)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/25/2008 7:34:42 PM
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Yet
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I would definitely be keeping an online journal. I've got the willpower of a champ, but I think that journal would be the only thing keeping me going.
I'm definitely going to be doing it, just gotta get some scratch together.
_____________________________
Official Petition to Reinstate Out Of Bounds.
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
**** happens and youre never going to look better than Yet, just deal with it
(in reply to TheSilverFox)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/26/2008 8:35:49 AM
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xXxDavexXx
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Joined: 11/7/2007
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WoW!
How long have these supp's been on the market?? AND, companies have spent how much money on market research and we just discovered this stuff doesn't work?
Wouldn't it be funny if all this boiled down to some idiot putting a decimal point in the wrong spot? I would LMFAO.
If this is in fact true, you know these companies have been laughing their a$$e$ off all the way to the bank.
With that said, who can we trust? Almost everyone has pushed this supplement?
< Message edited by xXxDavexXx -- 3/26/2008 8:38:31 AM >
(in reply to Godzmarine)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/30/2008 9:03:03 AM
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lohking
Posts: 163
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ive been taking L-arginine pyro-glutamate wid lysine.So is reccomended that i stop?
(in reply to xXxDavexXx)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/30/2008 9:22:34 AM
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Soccerking3000
Posts: 1321
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Yet
I would definitely be keeping an online journal. I've got the willpower of a champ, but I think that journal would be the only thing keeping me going.
I'm definitely going to be doing it, just gotta get some scratch together.
that looks pretty difficult and ****ty lol. I read the article and i bet it works but good lord
(in reply to Yet)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/30/2008 9:48:03 AM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
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I was using body fortress NOS which is only $10 a bottle at walmart. I just lost interest in it and havent used it in months. At the time it felt as though it was increasing pumps but who knows, hence why I dont bother taking it anymore.
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(in reply to Soccerking3000)
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RE: The Nitric Oxide Scam - 3/30/2008 8:12:42 PM
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Yet
Posts: 1195
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soccerking3000
quote:
ORIGINAL: Yet
I would definitely be keeping an online journal. I've got the willpower of a champ, but I think that journal would be the only thing keeping me going.
I'm definitely going to be doing it, just gotta get some scratch together.
that looks pretty difficult and ****ty lol. I read the article and i bet it works but good lord
I could see myself turning into a zombie after a week. Wakeup, go to school, come home, workout, update journal, sleep. Eeeeek.
_____________________________
Official Petition to Reinstate Out Of Bounds.
President of the Emancipation Detoxification. DBB's oldest forum group, punching baby seals since 2/12/08.
I have found the truth; nobody hides their identity from ED.
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Alright, you got me. I am Steven Hawking, and bodybuilding is my new hobby. I am sick of physics. I wish I could train, and not just read about others training.
Quote of the Month:
quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
**** happens and youre never going to look better than Yet, just deal with it
(in reply to Soccerking3000)
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