RE: Manta Ray for Squats
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 7:00:10 AM
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smoundzou
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I blew out my right RC back in june... the initial reason for the issue was my left shoulder had some severe atrophy due to being out of the gym for 15 or so months and when I finally was physically able to start training again, the entire left side was shot to hell...
I started training with nothing but DB's to try and even everything out but went back to the bar too soon.. and simply over-compensated with my right side on incline bench.. I managed to go years without ever having a single RC issue and Bam.. As of June I was stuck with lagging left side and a blown out RC on the right.. Doesn't get any better than that..
The good news is.. the RC is slowly getting better from some exercises i've been doing and the left side is almost par to the right.. if I had to guess I would say my right side can still out press by maybe 10-15lbs..not to shabby considering back in April of 07 it was approximately 40% weaker than my right.. The long head of my left tri was so riddled with atrophy I could barely do a 20lbs DB extension 10X's.. Once it would reach the bottom of the lift.. it would drop like a rock.. like there was no muscle present at all.. Pretty scarry..
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(in reply to brihead301)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 7:41:58 AM
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brihead301
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Ouch. That doesn't sound like fun. Do OH presses hurt for you to do? That is the only exercise that really bothers me to do, so I can't do full range of motion with heavy weights. I can only bring it down to about eye level or slightly lower without pain.
(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 8:10:27 AM
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smoundzou
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Incline bench literally kills me.. But I do the same as you with the OH presses.. I bring the bar down to about eye level.. right about to where both upper arms are slightly lower than horizontal.. any lower and it's like hot molten lead inside my right shoulder..
It is getting better since I've started doing the RC exercises with DB's but until I take off for a month or so.. I doubt it will ever be 100%...
quote:
ORIGINAL: brihead301
Ouch. That doesn't sound like fun. Do OH presses hurt for you to do? That is the only exercise that really bothers me to do, so I can't do full range of motion with heavy weights. I can only bring it down to about eye level or slightly lower without pain.
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If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
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(in reply to brihead301)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 8:23:41 AM
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PearlJammer919
Posts: 2002
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brihead301
True, but if the only reason he is using it is just to avoid the pain of having the bar resting on your back, then I don't think it's a good reason to use it. If he is using it for something like a shoulder injury, then I think it should only be used temporarily until the injury is healed. I think that the OP is healthy though since he didn't mention any injuries.
Honestly, if he isn't entering into a powerlifting competition, it shouldn't matter since I dont find it to jeopardize the lift at all when speaking of form. I understand your train of thought Brihead, and your correct too. However, as the saying goes, If it doesn't hurt, do it. If it does, obviously dont. Hence, when doing the squat injury or not, if it digs into his back where pain occurs, and he could use the manta to subside the pain and get all the benefits from possibly the best exercise in the world, then I see no problem. If entering a competition however, totally different story.
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(in reply to brihead301)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 8:33:06 AM
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brihead301
Posts: 3063
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I guess you're right, but I just have the idea that correct form is most important with complicated exercises such as the squat. The weight of the bar causing pain is a form error, which can be corrected by other means.
The manta ray does eliminate the possiblity of doing low-bar squats though, which to me, is very important. I have bad knees, so doing high bar squats puts too much pressure on my knees since they don't have as much hamstring involvement as low-bar. Using the manta ray would actually hurt me more then not using it.
(in reply to PearlJammer919)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 8:39:09 AM
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poisondart90
Posts: 618
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From: Maryland
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Fortunatley, I do not have any injuries. I was just asking generically and I will try both with and without it and try to do low bar one's too. Just need to get used to not using it as I had one available at school and bought one because it was so helpful.
(in reply to brihead301)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 6:09:38 PM
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brihead301
Posts: 3063
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MikeMahony
The torso naturally goes a little forward, but what I was referring too (not too clearly I see, sorry) is those people you see doing squats who end up almost bending over because the bar is rolling too high on their traps and it forces them too far forward. The Manta Ray corrects that problem and nicely at that.
That's what the manta ray makes worse. It makes the bar sit even higher then a high bar squat.
(in reply to MikeMahony)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/18/2008 6:32:55 PM
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poisondart90
Posts: 618
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From: Maryland
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It has less to do with the position and more with how it distributes the weight. The weight is mostly felt lower on the back for me than when I just use the bar so assuming your logic is right, it is actually helping my form. There's always room for improvement though!
(in reply to brihead301)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 5:56:16 AM
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brihead301
Posts: 3063
Joined: 6/7/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: poisondart90
....so assuming your logic is right, it is actually helping my form.
It's not my logic, it's physics.
Do what you like though.
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 6:22:54 AM
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Godzmarine
Posts: 797
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I say man up and don't use any equipment.
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 10:25:33 AM
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coldfire
Posts: 1044
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Allow me just to quote Mark Rippetoe's book "Strong Enough?":
"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot."
(in reply to Godzmarine)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 10:37:27 AM
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brihead301
Posts: 3063
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Lol, I knew it was only a matter of time before you gave your input to this thread Coldfire.
(in reply to coldfire)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 11:30:03 AM
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coldfire
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brihead301
Lol, I knew it was only a matter of time before you gave your input to this thread Coldfire.
I actually thought to avoid giving my input, because you already gave a good one, but I think this one is funny.
(in reply to brihead301)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 11:40:57 AM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2248
Joined: 5/4/2007
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Since we're on the subject of training aids.. what's everyone's opinion on Gloves, Straps, hooks, bar pads, etc....
Don't use Gloves
Don't use straps or hooks
and I've never did a squat with a pad on the bar...
If I used hooks or straps.. I could easily dead lift another 70-100lbs... how could that possibly be fair?? or justifiable?
Am I cheating myself by not using hooks?
I think not
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Allow me just to quote Mark Rippetoe's book "Strong Enough?":
"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot."
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
=========
DoNotClick
(in reply to coldfire)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 11:48:34 AM
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coldfire
Posts: 1044
Joined: 2/15/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: smoundzou
Since we're on the subject of training aids.. what's everyone's opinion on Gloves, Straps, hooks, bar pads, etc....
Don't use Gloves
Don't use straps or hooks
and I've never did a squat with a pad on the bar...
If I used hooks or straps.. I could easily dead lift another 70-100lbs... how could that possibly be fair?? or justifiable?
Am I cheating myself by not using hooks?
I think not
quote:
ORIGINAL: coldfire
Allow me just to quote Mark Rippetoe's book "Strong Enough?":
"And those devices that hold the bar on your back or your shoulders for you, well I can't stand to talk about them either. Except to say that anyone who uses them should be beaten with a hammer, out in the parking lot."
Same for the gloves and pads.
Straps have their place in training, for partial deadlifts for example. But everyone should be able to do full deadlift without straps.
(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 11:50:46 AM
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jheft
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I use gloves, but not straps or hooks of any kind. I don't think I can lift more with gloves - I just avoid ripping my skin to shreds.
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(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 12:02:16 PM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2248
Joined: 5/4/2007
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My palms are pretty much shot to hell from all the callouses.. I could probably sand drywall without even having any sandpaper..
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
=========
DoNotClick
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Manta Ray for Squats - 2/19/2008 12:08:11 PM
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brihead301
Posts: 3063
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: online
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I don't really have any opinion on straps, hooks, gloves, suits, whatever.... I just don't think the manta ray is a good idea.
(in reply to smoundzou)
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