RE: Unsure of what to do...
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 10:50:13 AM
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Naviator
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Joined: 9/27/2004
From: Frankfort, KY
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You said you have a year. 20 lbs is a realistic goal. You won't get there in a month, but maybe six. Is that too long?
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 10:50:51 AM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
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From: Oakland, CA
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1) Your diet: Yes, the carbs you don't burn do get stored as fat. But so what? Your body burns fat as fule all the time, and too many calories, even from protein will make you fat if you don't burn them off. A healthy, balanced diet and regular exercise is still the best way to say trim.
2) 64 lbs in about 12 years (I think). MDA is not a 20-something, he's a 30-something. When I was 21 I came home from overseas sick and weighed 155. Now I weigh around 200. I'm 34. It's not about putting it on fast, it's about putting in on consistently and keeping in shape over time. I gained my mass by going to the gym 4-5 days a week and eating a lot. Sometimes I used supplements, but I don't anymore because I really couldn't see any difference between using them and not using them (except for protein powder, but that's food). This is 5 or 6 lbs a year, not 20 in 6 months.
My brother is a medical doctor, he finished his residency last summer. He lifts, and while he didn't always get to do as much as he wanted, he managed to keep most of the mass he earned through hard work and patience (he started when he was 13, he's 38 now). It's just a question of priorities.
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 10:52:35 AM
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Marc David
Posts: 6742
Joined: 4/6/2003
From: Bay Area -CA
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I was 130 lbs in 1991 at age 19.
I am 194 lbs in 2005 at age 32.
It's been a long time. I didn't workout much during college.
When I started this current job I was 160 lbs, 10% body fat. So the 30 lbs I did put on were mostly muscle but only from continued involvement on and off with lifting.
That's 30 lbs in roughly 9 years.
Then I found Max-OT, then I found my wife that encouraged me to eat right and then I found the Optimum Anabolics program and FitDay.com. I've really only used protein, multi-vitamins, creatine and fish oils. I really only discovered how much I need to be eating about 2 years ago and I only put that into practice about 1 year ago.
Then I gained another 30 lbs of muscle in roughly 2.5 years from the middle of 2002 to the present.
As you can see, my diet, training, and supplementation had a major part in that.
I fail to see how you lose either way.
I'm saying you don't do PHs or steroids...ever...unless there is a medical reason to do so. Or you are getting paid $$$ to take such risks.
If you get a plan together, figure out a lot of the basics, you can implement it today and start seeing changes.. forever.
But the statement that should scare you the most is:
quote:
I don't know what to do I feel so lost and confused like it's pointless for me to work out at all.
Turning to products that require an advanced knowledge of them, diet and workout techniques would be a major mistake for you.
How would you know what it takes to achieve your goals? You've not even tried yet. You are just starting out on a lifetime journey of fitness. Give it time.
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 10:56:13 AM
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axgar
Posts: 186
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: Denver, Colorado
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Powerhaus and Mda have it all right. I join with experience lifting but not focused on added muscle....just sports related.
I understand your honest search for an answer you can run with but as in science experiments variables change everything. Just learn as much as you can, focus on your goal (keep food and exercise journals) and stay consistent.
Those are common for everyone. Good Luck!
(in reply to Naviator)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 11:26:01 AM
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DrumProdigy83
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OK so all I need to do is take in as many calories per day as I can along with 1-2g of protein per pound I weigh, and lift hard and regularly 4-5 days per week and I will see significant weight gain in about 6 months? There are a ton of protein powders out there, I am really not sure which one is best. I don't want to take creatine because it is just water weight. The protein shake I took last year was actually a weight gainer with 2200 calories per shake (I'd drink 1/2 shake every day I worked out, so about 2.5 shakes per week). I am going to go on a tunafish diet and try to eat about 3 cans per day (just about 112g of protein) plus whatever else I eat during the day and of course protein shakes. That should add up to a lot of protein and I guess carbs too. Maybe creatine would help my muscles recover faster.... What kind of stuff do you guys eat / recommend? 3 cans of tuna + other stuff + protein shakes = ok? Hey Powerhaus, did your brother lift while in med school?? Thanks for the help guys.
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 11:41:52 AM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
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From: Oakland, CA
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quote:
and I will see significant weight gain in about 6 months?
That depends on what you mean by signifigant. I wouldn't bet on 20 lbs in 6 months, but you will make gains and you will develop good habits for continuing to make gains in the future.
I only use creatine if I am trying to fluff up my muscles for a photo shoot or something.
Yes, my brother lifted while in med school. Actually, he lifted more in med school than he did in his residency, although there does seem to be some movement now to cut back on the insane hours the residents work. I think the standard is now 80 hours a week instead of the 120+ is was before. Although now he's in Afganistan with the Army workoing our 2 or 3 times a day because he's bored.
Personally I think people obsess over the details of their diets too much, but I've been doing this for so long maybe I'm just getting tired of giving the same answers to the same questions. Read labels, a 40/40/20 protein/carb/fat breakdown is a good rule of tumb. Complex carbs are better than simple sugars. Whole foods are better than processed ones. Make your own food whenever possible. I use a whey powder that I like best after trying several different kinds, it depends on your personal taste though.
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Where's MY book deal?
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 12:15:28 PM
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DrumProdigy83
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Cool, so I guess we can assume I will be able to continue working out in medical school.  As far as 40/40/20, does that mean 2g per pound protein / 2g per pound carbohydrates / 1g per pound fats? There is no way I can get it exact lol, but is that what you mean by that? How do calories work into that equation? Thanks.
(in reply to Powerhaus)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 1:02:35 PM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
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From: Oakland, CA
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40/40/20 means 40% from protein, 40% from carbs, 20% from fat.
_____________________________
"Eat Less, Exericise More"
Where's MY book deal?
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 1:55:15 PM
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DrumProdigy83
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I got that part, but what are the actual amounts? 160g of protein, 160g of carbs, 80g of fats... as an example...?
< Message edited by DrumProdigy83 -- 1/11/2005 1:56:00 PM >
(in reply to Powerhaus)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 1:59:20 PM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
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From: Oakland, CA
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For an active male in his early 20's, I'd guess around 3000 calories a day. You can do the rest of the math.
But it's not a magic formula, it's a guideline. Your body will burn a different number of calories each day, so the key is to measure by your appetite, not the scale. If you are trying to gain, eat a blanced diet, several small meals spread throughout the day, and eat a little more than you want to. If your'e trying to lose weight, do the same thing, except eating a little less than you want to.
_____________________________
"Eat Less, Exericise More"
Where's MY book deal?
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 2:14:58 PM
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DrumProdigy83
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...Or just take some steroids 
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 2:15:45 PM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
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From: Oakland, CA
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No, they don't work like that.
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 2:18:14 PM
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Marc David
Posts: 6742
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There's a formula in this eReport that will help you a bit determining calories and such.
Something like Fitday.com will tell you how close you are to each goal.
Download Fitness Explosed Now
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 2:55:22 PM
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cpl
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From: New York City
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quote:
I have patience, but I just don't have a lot of time. I can and will still lift, but not as much as I need to in order to put on the weight I want.
Okay, despite the situation you described, I have to say this still sounds like impatience to me, to be totally honest- I'm not trying to knock you here, just point something out. I honestly think you could seriously benefit from changing how you look at your whole situation- You mentioned you would work harder if you were taking PH's or whatever. You also mentioned you were going to stop working out sooner or later- The bottom line is, if you're only going to push yourself while you're on these supps, you're most likely not going to get what you want. Also, if you've already got it in your head that you're going to quit less than two years from now for whatever reason, then there's no reason to start at all.
Look at it this way- If you know you'd work out harder while on PH's, then you're obviously not giving it your all now. If you're not training to the best of your ability right now, then there's not much point in taking PH's- You should consider stuff like that when you're giving A HUNDRED PER CENT in every area- Training, nutrition, rest- And you still want that edge. Can you tell us what your caloric expenditure per day is, and how many calories you're eating above that in order to bulk? Can you tell us how many grams of protein/carbs and fats are in each of your six meals every day, and what types they are- Even better, tell us WHY you have to eat those certain types of protein, carbs and fat? A more general question- When your gains stopped coming, how many calories a day did you up your intake by?
As far as you dropping your training when you start school- This sort of thing is a lifestyle really, and no matter what else is going on around you, you have to make time for it. Personally, I can say it's part of my life- Just like brushing my teeth in the morning, jumping in the shower, etc- I think most people here can say the same thing, it becomes a part of your lifestyle that would be hard to give up for any reason. Sure, life can get busy- I'm working full time and going to school myself, besides spending a good deal of time moderating this site- But I'd never stop brushing my teeth or showering, and by the same token, I'd never stop working out.
Sorry if I come off sounding a little critical, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they're going to work out as a temporary thing, with a quit date in mind- Even if you're going to pick it up after school's done with, which is great, it still sounds a little weird to me.
But read the first part of my post and ask yourself- Are you really doing all you can without the prohormones? Even if you decide to take them, you still need to do all that other stuff to get the best possible results- So why not start now? See how far you get without them?
(in reply to Naviator)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 3:42:47 PM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
Joined: 12/17/2003
From: Oakland, CA
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Amen cpl
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"Eat Less, Exericise More"
Where's MY book deal?
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 3:57:39 PM
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DrumProdigy83
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Joined: 1/9/2005
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Thanks CPL, that was a very good post. I hear what you are saying, but it seems maybe I was a little unclear about some things... Whether I take PHs or not, I would still give 100% in the gym. I actually just started my weekly workout regime today, which goes 4 days per week for however many months. Eventually I'll kind of change it up a little bit, but I posted my schedule in one of the earlier posts on this thread. I just bought two tubs of Mega Whey Extreme that I am going to start taking tomorrow.
I don't know specific numbers of really any of those questions. I just used a caloric calculator to determine the amount of calories I take in daily (my weight isn't changing) given my age, metabolism, body fat %, etc etc, and it came out to 1760 calories per day. When I was lifting (sophomore in college... now I'm a senior) I was eating at least 5 meals per day, mostly meats, fish, pasta, whole grains, milk, orange juice.... Things that were healthy but also high in calories and/or protein. I was also taking that weight gainer shake and creatine. I was very adamant about my eating and workout habits and quite dedicated to both as well. The gains stopped coming when the classes started getting more difficult and time consuming. As important as consistency is, my grades are more important to me right now. I remember having two or three 10+ page papers due in a couple bio classes... it was a nightmare.
As far as lifting now.... I am eating healthier than before and also more than before, plus I am going to be supplementing with whey protein everyday (as per the directions). I am working out 4 days per week and pretty much mimicking what i was doing sophomore year except this time without creatine. I give 100% no matter what... Phs or no PHs, I want to get the most out of what I'm doing. In the fall of 2006 is when I am planning on starting medical school, which I've heard will take up every minute of my life for the duration I am there. Powerhaus said his brother just graduated med school and he lifted while he was there, which I kind of had a feeling would be possible, so apparently I will be able to keep lifting but probably not as "hardcore" as I am able to now. Worse case scenario is that I lose some mass and strength but still keep myself in good shape. And regardless of whether or not I lift in med school, once I am out I definitely definitely will be going to a gym. Since I don't know what the deal will be in medical school the here and now is what I really want to focus on. Everybody has been saying diet and consistency are the two most important things to getting bigger (but not the ONLY two) so those are what I am going to focus on. Like someone else said, gaining weight isn't brain surgery, it's just knowledge and discipline.
I am going to just going to see how things go for now, but if I were to use PHs it would not be to overcompensate for something else I am not doing. I don't want it to take the place of something, I want it to SUPPLEMENT my workout so that my gains are even BIGGER... I want to see gains now working 100% and eating right and all that, but if I still don't develop the physique quite what I'm looking for maybe I will turn to PHs for additional help. But the one thing I want to reiterate is the fact that I am not a slacker and will not slack in anyway shape or form because of the introduction of PHs or steroids into my routine. If anything, the results will be so large that I will stop with the PHs or steroids. I already have a perceived physical goal... lifting is not something I particularly enjoy doing lol, but I will do what's necessary to get bigger and look better...
(in reply to cpl)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 4:35:40 PM
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Powerhaus
Posts: 1065
Joined: 12/17/2003
From: Oakland, CA
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So what eactly is it you are asking?
"Should I take steroids?" No.
"Should I take pro-hormones?" Probably not. (I personally don't think they are anything but marketing hype)
"Should I eat right and exericise and put my life in such a perspective that I have a healthy self-image and see working out as part of the greater whole that is my life?" Absolutely.
No, your friends' livers and hearts are not exploding like balloons, they're not wearing bras, and they're not bald (at least not yet). This is one reason why I think exaggerating the risks of steroids to scare kids out of taking them backfires. The truth is the risks aren't huge overnight, but they increase with how much you take and how long you take them. 30 years down the road you might rather have a slim body that works real well to a big bulky one that's got some problems. So while you may be envious of your friends who are using illegal synthetic hormones, don't let that make you think they're totally safe. When you hit your 30's, you'll be a heck of a lot more worried aobut the size for your belly than the size of your biceps.
_____________________________
"Eat Less, Exericise More"
Where's MY book deal?
(in reply to DrumProdigy83)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 4:54:01 PM
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DrumProdigy83
Posts: 16
Joined: 1/9/2005
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So steroids aren't all too bad afterall? Are they legal in the UK do you know? I found a UK bodybuilding forum and they talk about how to use needles and stuff, and there are a LOT of guys who do "gear". i am just curious because this board doesn't tolerate steroid discussions like that. If they are legal there, why are they illegal here? Are they legal anywhere else? I think steroids are illegal because they are often time abused and this is something that can have devastating effects if it is abused. But then I think about alcohol, which was banned, and now it is legal again. When alcohol is abused it can cause great harm to more than just the person drinking it... Is it because you don't have to drink it? Alcohol is not beneficial in any way to the human body... the barley in beer and the grapes in wine are the only two healthy ingredients... I don't know I am just trying to figure out the logic behind, there is probably just something I am missing.............::confused::
(in reply to Powerhaus)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 5:13:46 PM
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cpl
Posts: 4780
Joined: 5/26/2003
From: New York City
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Are they illegal, if so, why- That's a whole different story. Things like alcohol and tobacco are just legalized drugs- There's no benefit, lots of dangers, but you're able to buy both at your local corner store. Why? Big money. They're more socially acceptable poisons. Besides all that, steroids are illegal, plain and simple- And for damn good reason, if you ask me. Both people I know who have tried them almost ruined their marriages because of the rage, and their bodies because of overuse. They're both smart guys too- But let's face it, anyone who looks into roids is looking for fast gains. Once you get some of those fast gains, you're going to want them faster- So you tell yourself you're going to do a heavy cycle just this once. Screw that.
(in reply to DrumProdigy83)
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RE: Unsure of what to do... - 1/11/2005 5:15:50 PM
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Elephant77
Posts: 55
Joined: 11/5/2004
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There illegal because too many people would abuse them... Kinnda like Ciggaretts, Alcohol, Pain Medication, Sleep Aids... wait a second all those things are legal! What's wrong with our country! Hell any moron can buy a gun legally but cant buy a PH? How many gun-murders were there last year? How many smoking deaths? How many alcohol related deaths? We got our prioritys a little confused here...
(in reply to DrumProdigy83)
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