Getting lean
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Getting lean - 11/25/2007 4:18:02 PM
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jheft
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We seem to have a lot of members who are ectos/hardgainers who have a tendency towards being skinny, but who've managed, with effort, to pack on mass and have managed to keep their leanness.
My question is for those other members who didn't start out naturally lean. Both those who were overweight and managed to get in shape, as well as those who weren't necessarily overweight, but who still had to work to get lean.
I don't have any trouble gaining or losing scale weight at a regular, steady pace, but I just can't seem to get lean enough to actually look good, have abs, etc. I lost most of my excess fat without difficulty, but seem to hit a wall when I start getting down towards about 10% body fat. I can lose more weight, but I don't seem to get any leaner.
What are the keys to getting down those next few percent?
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 184.6 lbs - currently cutting
2008 Results: +23.0 lbs bulk, -11.6 lbs cut, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
-- Principal Snyder
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RE: Getting lean - 11/25/2007 4:22:26 PM
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Forsaken3400
Posts: 490
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jumprope
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/25/2007 4:38:04 PM
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David1991
Posts: 5167
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
I don't have any trouble gaining or losing scale weight at a regular, steady pace, but I just can't seem to get lean enough to actually look good, have abs, etc. I lost most of my excess fat without difficulty, but seem to hit a wall when I start getting down towards about 10% body fat. I can lose more weight, but I don't seem to get any leaner.
What are the keys to getting down those next few percent?
im the same way.
theres a few things to do and i can almost gaurantee it will help u get where u want as long as u stick to it. first though whats ur current diet (calories and ratios) and how much cardio are u doing
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/25/2007 4:51:59 PM
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jheft
Posts: 1503
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I'm getting about 2600 calories per day, 25% from fat, about 180 grams of protein (usually a bit more, actually), and the remainder carbs. I avoid sugar as much as possible, outside the occasional cheat. I do about 30 minutes of medium intensity cardio (bike) after each lifting session (4 times a week). My bike is also my transportation to work, which is another 15 or so minutes a day.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 184.6 lbs - currently cutting
2008 Results: +23.0 lbs bulk, -11.6 lbs cut, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
-- Principal Snyder
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/25/2007 5:01:33 PM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2137
Joined: 5/4/2007
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Right now I'm bulking but I've been doing a tabata routine one Tuesdays and Thursday.. only doing it with squats and Thrusters.. I haven't been doing it long enough to actually report how well it works but according to what I"ve read.. it's the most efficient way to lose fat with minimum muscle loss.. do a google on tabata..
Like I mentioned I'm only doing squats and thrusters.. 8 sets each.. the sets are 20 seconds maximum intensity.. then 10 seconds rest..and reapeat.. total 30 seconds = 1 set.. 8 sets per exercise.. sounds easy.. but it's a nightmare..
< Message edited by smoundzou -- 11/25/2007 5:02:57 PM >
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Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:225BF: 14%
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(in reply to David1991)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/25/2007 5:59:14 PM
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Red PittBull
Posts: 174
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: LaGrange, Georgia
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I have actualy dropped a few pounds just from cutting back on all the fatty things I used to eat plus working out.. In about three weeks I have dropped 4 pounds! Feels great.. I need to work on a diet though... Mine now is just pathetic...lol.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brihead301
I chew glass and turn it into sand. I also train in -25° whether sometimes just to toughen me up. As an ab workout, sometimes I'll have someone beat me across the stomach with a wooden stick until I turn purple. I stepped on a nail once and liked it.
(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/26/2007 10:13:04 AM
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rippedchick
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I don't know how your carbs are split up but that could be a lot of starch if it's all potatoes and bread. You could try to adjust your diet to include more fiberous carbs and less starches. You could also up your protein intake. You could also cut your calories down 100-200 a day. Those are some suggestions for changing up your diet.
As far as the workouts go some people can get lean through a little medium intensity cardio - others can't. If you think you're diet is solid try looking at your training. Maybe you should incorporate 2 days (or times far away from your lifting) for high intensity cardio. Your cardio sessions don't need to last as long as your medium cardio sessions but they should be of very high intensity.
If I were you I would give interval training a shot. Sprint on your bike for 30 seconds followed by 60 seconds of rest and do that circuit 6 times. It's only a 9 minute workout but I think you would benefit more from sprinting than from medium intensity cardio.
There are just a few ideas of ways to break through the 10% barrier. Let us know how you do and if you need more help.
< Message edited by rippedchick -- 11/26/2007 10:14:09 AM >
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(in reply to Red PittBull)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/26/2007 2:05:44 PM
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footballcraze
Posts: 280
Joined: 7/24/2005
From: Kailua-Kona, HI
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
We seem to have a lot of members who are ectos/hardgainers who have a tendency towards being skinny, but who've managed, with effort, to pack on mass and have managed to keep their leanness.
My question is for those other members who didn't start out naturally lean. Both those who were overweight and managed to get in shape, as well as those who weren't necessarily overweight, but who still had to work to get lean.
I don't have any trouble gaining or losing scale weight at a regular, steady pace, but I just can't seem to get lean enough to actually look good, have abs, etc. I lost most of my excess fat without difficulty, but seem to hit a wall when I start getting down towards about 10% body fat. I can lose more weight, but I don't seem to get any leaner.
What are the keys to getting down those next few percent?
I'm in the same boat as you, I'm going to try some medium intensity cardio and lowering the carbs and upping the protein. Hopefully it works and if it doesn't ill drop 100-200 calories and adjust accordingly.
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(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/26/2007 3:02:56 PM
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David1991
Posts: 5167
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jheft
I'm getting about 2600 calories per day, 25% from fat, about 180 grams of protein (usually a bit more, actually), and the remainder carbs. I avoid sugar as much as possible, outside the occasional cheat. I do about 30 minutes of medium intensity cardio (bike) after each lifting session (4 times a week). My bike is also my transportation to work, which is another 15 or so minutes a day.
ok i'll explain it here and just tell me if u have any questions, this is similar to what alot of BBers do and can get u very lean.
1. set ur diet to about 25-30% carbs, 45-50% protein, 20-30%fat
2. every 4th day have a carb up day with about 500 calories more than ur normal days and a ratio of 50c/30p/20f roughly
3. keep ur starchy carbs in the first 2-3 meals and more healthy fats and vegetables towards the last 3-4 meals of the day
4. taper ur calories down as the day goes on
5. thats the main diet part, if u lose too much weight/muscle than desired weekly than change the ratio of low carb to high carb days from 3:1 to 3:2 or just add carbs/calories in general (i prefer the first way)
**6. cardio is a huge tool and should be continously progressing, ur at 30min 4x per week now. whenever progress stalls u should progress (it could be increasing the intensity of all ur runs, increasing the length with no longer than 45min, or increasing the frequency). as long as u keep progressing u will keep losing fat
thats basically it, to help also cut out fruits, dairy, and other sugars. if u need anything cleared up just ask
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/26/2007 3:30:58 PM
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jheft
Posts: 1503
Joined: 1/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rippedchick
I don't know how your carbs are split up but that could be a lot of starch if it's all potatoes and bread. You could try to adjust your diet to include more fiberous carbs and less starches. You could also up your protein intake. You could also cut your calories down 100-200 a day. Those are some suggestions for changing up your diet.
A large part of my carbs are bread (always whole grain), or other grains. Getting more veggies is an area that I can improve. I've managed to learn to eat lots of things I don't really like, and stopped eating lots of bad things that I really like. But I have a lot of trouble with veggies, and some of them I don't even digest very well. I'm losing weight at the right pace, so I don't want to cut my calories further.
quote:
As far as the workouts go some people can get lean through a little medium intensity cardio - others can't. If you think you're diet is solid try looking at your training. Maybe you should incorporate 2 days (or times far away from your lifting) for high intensity cardio. Your cardio sessions don't need to last as long as your medium cardio sessions but they should be of very high intensity.
I do switch up the cardio. I've been doing medium intensity for a couple weeks, and I'm gonna switch to high intensity for the next couple. At the end of my last cut I did HIIT, but it didn't seem to really do the trick, but I plan on trying it again after the two weeks of high intensity.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 184.6 lbs - currently cutting
2008 Results: +23.0 lbs bulk, -11.6 lbs cut, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
-- Principal Snyder
(in reply to rippedchick)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/26/2007 3:37:32 PM
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PearlJammer919
Posts: 1452
Joined: 2/26/2007
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Basically, if you have read any of my previous posts on this type of topic, I broke the 200 pound marker in 8th grade. (Bad!) This is what I did prior to having any nutrition/bodybuilding knowledge: Anorexia. I've never really told anyone that, but I figure I've poured my heart out in this place, so what the hell. Anyway, I did that for an entire summer which I lived on 2 rice crispie treats, maybe a bagel, and a chicken for dinner of some kind. That was a typical day, and I lost maybe 15 pounds over 2 months, which isn't alot but made a big difference. Then 9th grade, followed a similar path but not as extreme. By 10th grade I started lifting, and then I understood what to do. Going from 200, All fat, to approx 166, BF 10-11% now, I've got a good idea, and heres what your looking for, I think:
My Daily Diet:
6 30 am-Coffee, 2 scoops of whey, whey muffin(My own recipe)
12:00 pm-Turkey on whole wheat, almonds, water, whey muffin
3:00 pm No Xplode
4:30 pm 2 scoops of whey
6:00 pm-Chicken/Beef, with a vegetable, whey muffin, and a carb of some kind.
That's it, essentially only 3 meals a day, and call it 4 if you include the post-workout shake. I dont do 6 meals, only 3-4 and it's working just fine. Heres the fun part though:
Cardio Routine:
Either HIIT or Lacrosse Shooting, all after lifting.(For you HIIT)
-Monday
-Wednesday
-Thursday
-Friday
Optional Saturday
-Sunday
5 days of HIIT, and 6 if you feel special and go saturday. I sometimes go 6, usually 5 though.
Tips I've found work: Dont eat anything after 8:00 pm, limit dairy intake, obviously no **** foods(candy, fast food), and I am contemplating using creatine for strength but I probably wont because I have a fear of losing the six-pack, therefore I dont reccomend it.
Good luck Jheft, hopefully I helped with this really long, detailed, and most likely boring for some post.
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(in reply to David1991)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/29/2007 8:06:21 PM
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jheft
Posts: 1503
Joined: 1/3/2007
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Thanks, I'll take a look at that.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 184.6 lbs - currently cutting
2008 Results: +23.0 lbs bulk, -11.6 lbs cut, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
-- Principal Snyder
(in reply to Italianangel)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/30/2007 2:21:47 PM
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David1991
Posts: 5167
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
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wow jheft, just looking at ur sig. ur bench went up 40lb. is 5 weeks??
(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/30/2007 8:59:20 PM
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jheft
Posts: 1503
Joined: 1/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David1991
wow jheft, just looking at ur sig. ur bench went up 40lb. is 5 weeks??
Sorta. The 120 was a week or two before I started IBB's program, but it was the most recent max I had prior to starting the program. And part of the improvement was probably just from getting more comfortable benching with the barbell, because it jumped up more quickly the first couple weeks. But I'm still adding 5 pounds a week at this point, which is pretty satisfying... I'm doing actual sets at 130 now, which I could hardly lift at all when I started. On the other hand, when I was working on my deadlifts, I added 60 pounds in 6 weeks, so it could be better!
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 184.6 lbs - currently cutting
2008 Results: +23.0 lbs bulk, -11.6 lbs cut, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
-- Principal Snyder
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/30/2007 9:35:31 PM
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Wyrms
Posts: 1458
Joined: 12/19/2006
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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I'm still lagging at around 10% bodyfat, and my HST routine's screwing me over. I kinda blame myself because I'm not as loyal with my cardio plan as I'd hoped.
I've taken about a week off and I start back on cutting on Monday.
Can someone explain to me something about HIIT?
I know HIIT has a lot of benefits and raises your metabolism etc... But, I've also come to the realisation that HIIT doesn't burn as many calories as medium or low intensity cardio.
Think about it.
The general law of losing fat is having a higher caloric expenditure over your caloric intake, I don't think HIIT is ideal for losing bodyfat because:
-It's too short, therefore you don't expend as many calories.
-Because it's at such a very high level of intensity it has a much higher chance of burning lean mass.
With medium/low intensity cardio you can last A LOT longer and therefore expend much more calories of bodyfat.
No doubt HIIT's great but for the goal of losing bodyfat, I don't think it's the ideal option.
I wanna hear other arguments because atm I'm under the impression that one guy used an argument about HIIT being better for you then everyone listened to them and told other people, etc... Until everyone had false knowledge and were given the wrong advice.
I know this can't be right because there are several professionals on here who preach HIIT.
So please, by all means; Prove me wrong.
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(in reply to jheft)
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RE: Getting lean - 11/30/2007 10:14:47 PM
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Forsaken3400
Posts: 490
Joined: 10/9/2007
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i was reading body for life, and it states that high intense cardio for a short amount of time really increases metabolism, as you shouldnt look at how many calories you are burning during the workout but afterwards, and also that doing cardio for a long time will cause u to lose muscle tissue.
(in reply to Wyrms)
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RE: Getting lean - 12/1/2007 5:39:56 AM
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David1991
Posts: 5167
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Wyrms
I'm still lagging at around 10% bodyfat, and my HST routine's screwing me over. I kinda blame myself because I'm not as loyal with my cardio plan as I'd hoped.
I've taken about a week off and I start back on cutting on Monday.
Can someone explain to me something about HIIT?
I know HIIT has a lot of benefits and raises your metabolism etc... But, I've also come to the realisation that HIIT doesn't burn as many calories as medium or low intensity cardio.
Think about it.
The general law of losing fat is having a higher caloric expenditure over your caloric intake, I don't think HIIT is ideal for losing bodyfat because:
-It's too short, therefore you don't expend as many calories.
-Because it's at such a very high level of intensity it has a much higher chance of burning lean mass.
With medium/low intensity cardio you can last A LOT longer and therefore expend much more calories of bodyfat.
No doubt HIIT's great but for the goal of losing bodyfat, I don't think it's the ideal option.
I wanna hear other arguments because atm I'm under the impression that one guy used an argument about HIIT being better for you then everyone listened to them and told other people, etc... Until everyone had false knowledge and were given the wrong advice.
I know this can't be right because there are several professionals on here who preach HIIT.
So please, by all means; Prove me wrong.
actually ur right, HIIT is great while bulking and for the really busy guy who has no time to run but almost all bodybuilders follow a plan of 5+ cardio sessions a week of about 30min-1 hour at a medium to hard intensity but keeping it constant (not intervals) when it comes time to get really lean
(in reply to Wyrms)
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RE: Getting lean - 12/1/2007 8:45:08 AM
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jheft
Posts: 1503
Joined: 1/3/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Wyrms
-It's too short, therefore you don't expend as many calories.
-Because it's at such a very high level of intensity it has a much higher chance of burning lean mass.
Well, the theory is that HIIT creates such a stress on your body that for the next 12-18 hours, you burn more fat than usual while recovering. And since you aren't working at high intensity for very long, you don't have time to burn very much lean mass, as compared to medium or low intensity cardio, where you aren't burning lean mass at a high rate, but you're doing it for so much longer that it adds up.
So far I haven't exactly been smitten with the fat burning power of any type of cardio. I've lost another pound this week, but it appears to all be lean mass.
_____________________________
Journal: Jheft's Heftorium, Progress Photos (new as of 2008-03-08), My Stack
Current stats: 5'11", 184.6 lbs - currently cutting
2008 Results: +23.0 lbs bulk, -11.6 lbs cut, 2nd Place Discussbodybuilding.com Transformation Contest
"Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
-- Principal Snyder
(in reply to Wyrms)
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