RE: one day kills progress help!?
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 1:37:26 PM
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SouLja
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i'd start clean bulking now until maybe February, you'd notice a loss of fat and gains of muscle, if you do your best you'd probably only see a slight change in bf% depending on all the conditions
from feb. i'd cut til the beginning of april, when you start wearing the smaller shirts etc. get down to maybe 15% bf?
start cleanbulking again until summer where you can choose whatever
i dono that's just what im seeing is best
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 1:50:32 PM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2248
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No, I guess I don't remember what it's like.. but have you taken a good look at his picture? The guy doesn’t even have man boobs and Like Everyone other than you has said he doesn’t need to cut.. No matter where you are in life be it school, work, home, anywhere for that matter there are going to be people who make fun of you.. structuring your life around what other people think is no way to live..
This is a bodybuilding site, not slimfast.. and if you feel like you've done a good deed by advising kingyoto to cut you're only helping contribute to his low self esteem problem and confirming that he should only do what pleases others.. He obviously wants to gain mass or he wouldn’t have joined this site.. He’s obviously confused or he would have never asked the question to begin with.. The only thing you've done is confirm his feelings that he needs to be a skinny rail in order to fit in and be accepted and that's simply not true..
If anything, everyone should be pointing out the good and the good things he can do to improve himself in the long run.. Not advising him to do something just for the sake of esthetically pleasing his peers.. That's not good advice no matter how you look at it.
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
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DoNotClick
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 1:52:54 PM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2248
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quote:
ORIGINAL: David1991
adding on to wat i said, the one reason i could see u clean bulking would be because its gonna be winter soon so most ppl wont see ur body. i cant really do that cause i have swimming in the winter and thats when i gotta look my best (yes its a pretty gay sport but thats not why i do it, maaad hot girls )
So when did you change your mind?? your last post you were clearly against a clean bulk? Now your giving advice about cutting and bulking depending on the season??
Kingyoto, as I said before, take my advice and everyone elses.. and do a bulk eating good healthy goods. When you gain a little more muscle mass, the extra fat around your waist and problems areas will come off much easier and you'll look much better.. It may take a little extra work but If you start cutting now, you'll be dissapointed at the rusults due to muscle loss, and right now, you don't have enough muscle to spare.. and I'm not being insulting.. You have a good base to bulk with.. and could have some incredible results if done the right way.. good luck
< Message edited by smoundzou -- 10/22/2007 2:24:33 PM >
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
=========
DoNotClick
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 3:55:36 PM
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edrice2
Posts: 914
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ok, this is a black and white argument between either cutting or bulking. i think both are being looked at as extremes, ie. gain lots of weight or lose lots of weight. neither should be done in his case. his bodyfat isnt that high. i would just not use the word bulk or cut because both give connotations that arent relevant.
i mean, given that hes a beginner, if he eats around maintenance, erring on the side of slightly above and not below, im sure that he will see improvements. he doesnt need to go all out and eat lots over or lots under and do lots of cardio...theres leniency with beginners, just training hard and eating enough but not excessive will yield results...the bodyfat will decrease, strength will increase, and definition will increase.
i think the worst idea would be to choose cutting. he will probably lose some fat and become more defined just from being consistently training and feeding his body what it needs or a little above.
cutting, in my mind, gets used wrong most of the time. in order to cut, you have to have muscle to reveal...thats the purpose. in order for that to be the case, you need a substantial amount of muscle mass, and he doesnt appear to have that yet. which is expected since he is a beginner. therefore, put on muscle, eat sensibly around/a tad above maintenance, and the muscle mass will come...burning some fat at the same time in the beginning at least.
_____________________________
height: 5'8.5"
current weight: 152 (increasing quicker...)
goal for end of march: 160+
bulking:
start weight: 142.5 (141.5 low)
3-day full body routine/upper-lower split
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 4:15:40 PM
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David1991
Posts: 7873
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From: New Jersey
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i dont think any1 said for him to eat tons over maintenance, pretty much every1 said clean bulk which refers to the way ur talking about
(in reply to edrice2)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 4:22:30 PM
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edrice2
Posts: 914
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well, clean bulk doesnt necesarrily translate to that always, you could clean bulk well over maintanance, it just means eating healthy foods over maintenace, i dont think it specifically specifies how much over...and my point is that the term bulk has a connatation that you will gain fat, when in many many cases, beginners wont given that they are training hard and eating well
i just dont think anyone should start a bodybuilding lifestyle with a cut unless they are veyr obese and there are health reasons that do so
_____________________________
height: 5'8.5"
current weight: 152 (increasing quicker...)
goal for end of march: 160+
bulking:
start weight: 142.5 (141.5 low)
3-day full body routine/upper-lower split
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 5:51:46 PM
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smoundzou
Posts: 2248
Joined: 5/4/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edrice2
ok, this is a black and white argument between either cutting or bulking. i think both are being looked at as extremes, ie. gain lots of weight or lose lots of weight. neither should be done in his case. his bodyfat isnt that high. i would just not use the word bulk or cut because both give connotations that arent relevant.
i mean, given that hes a beginner, if he eats around maintenance, erring on the side of slightly above and not below, im sure that he will see improvements. he doesnt need to go all out and eat lots over or lots under and do lots of cardio...theres leniency with beginners, just training hard and eating enough but not excessive will yield results...the bodyfat will decrease, strength will increase, and definition will increase.
i think the worst idea would be to choose cutting. he will probably lose some fat and become more defined just from being consistently training and feeding his body what it needs or a little above.
cutting, in my mind, gets used wrong most of the time. in order to cut, you have to have muscle to reveal...thats the purpose. in order for that to be the case, you need a substantial amount of muscle mass, and he doesnt appear to have that yet. which is expected since he is a beginner. therefore, put on muscle, eat sensibly around/a tad above maintenance, and the muscle mass will come...burning some fat at the same time in the beginning at least.
Just to clarify, I never said he should go on an all out bulk.. I said he didn't need to cut and should continue eating a normal healthy diet..right at or slighly above his maintainance level..
Lets keep this in perspective.. this is a bodybuilding weight lifting site. If someone only wants to lose weight that is as simple as modifying a diet and that advice could be given on literally thousand of other weight loss dieting sites..
As you so clearly pointed out.. he has hardly any muscle. I discouraged cutting because first of all I was shocked after seeing his pic that anyone would even recommend a cut. he has very little muscle mass and you know as well as I do that a cut would probably take what little he has down even lower.. Pointless.... A healthy diet, right at or slightly above his maintainance levels would do wonders.. I also mentioned that several posts back.
I understand school is tough.. but life is even toughter.. if we go around making decissions based on what others think, we live a very miserable life. At some point, you have to say screw it.. I'm going to do what's best for me ignore the a**holes.. what does it matter what they think, in 3 or 4 years most of them will be working at a Fast food rest.. asking you if you want to supersize that meal:)
_____________________________
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking. ~George S. Patton
Current
Age: 45
Height: 5'11
Weight:216
BF: 12-13%
=========
DoNotClick
(in reply to edrice2)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/22/2007 6:00:08 PM
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edrice2
Posts: 914
Joined: 6/22/2007
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yeah, i agree with you...i meant the bulking part just in general, probably more for how he/most beginners that view themselves as needing to lose weight might interpret the term bulking...i know what you meant and agree with you about the just over maintenance and definitely not cutting
_____________________________
height: 5'8.5"
current weight: 152 (increasing quicker...)
goal for end of march: 160+
bulking:
start weight: 142.5 (141.5 low)
3-day full body routine/upper-lower split
(in reply to smoundzou)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/23/2007 1:09:34 PM
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David1991
Posts: 7873
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: edrice2
well, clean bulk doesnt necesarrily translate to that always, you could clean bulk well over maintanance, it just means eating healthy foods over maintenace, i dont think it specifically specifies how much over
actually u should pretty much always be eating healthy foods, clean bulk usually refers to .5lb.-1lb. gain per week whereas a normal or "dirty" bulk would be about 1.5-2lb. per week
(in reply to edrice2)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/24/2007 5:03:23 PM
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kingyoto
Posts: 1273
Joined: 9/29/2007
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Well Isent an email to marc and he told me to cut. He said guys go into bodybuilding say 20% bf and 6 months later theyr'e 25% bodyfat and stronger but you can't flex fat. He recomended that I cut first so i'm just throwing that info out there. I'm still going to eat at my maintnence and hopefully it will work out.
< Message edited by kingyoto -- 11/20/2007 1:57:13 PM >
(in reply to David1991)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/24/2007 5:09:04 PM
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David1991
Posts: 7873
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kingyoto
Well I sent an email to marc and he told me to cut. He said guys go into bodybuilding say 20% bf and 6 months later theyr'e 25% bodyfat and stronger but you can't flex fat. He recomended that I cut first so i'm just throwing that info out there. I'm still going to cut till I lose my gut then I'll clean bulk like a crzy person.
o rly? is that so?
(in reply to kingyoto)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 10/26/2007 4:09:01 PM
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kingyoto
Posts: 1273
Joined: 9/29/2007
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.
< Message edited by kingyoto -- 10/26/2007 4:11:50 PM >
(in reply to SouLja)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 11/20/2007 2:11:19 PM
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kingyoto
Posts: 1273
Joined: 9/29/2007
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.
_____________________________
the anti yet Coalition- founder
Rank: guerrilla revolutionary
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton
"A girl phoned me the other day and said... Come on over, there's nobody home. I went over. Nobody was home." Rodney Dangerfield
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." Albert Einstein
http://myopalmasta.myminicity.com/
http://myopalmasta.myminicity.com/ind
(in reply to kingyoto)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 11/20/2007 3:01:39 PM
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PearlJammer919
Posts: 2002
Joined: 2/26/2007
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Ok, I just read this whole thread and I know what it's like being the fat kid in school. I was him from 4th grade-9th grade so I know exactly what it's like, and it's probably one of the worst feelings ever. Physical pain is one thing, but constant/consistent emotional/mental pain of knowing that you are labeled and recognized as the fat kid is heartrending and disgraceful. I was once him, and I dont not know that guy anymore. I refuse to look at him, nor recollect any memory that transpired from him. Breaking 200 pounds in 8th(all fat, no muscle), and now in 11th grade 160(Maybe BF 10-11%) I am different, I am respected, I am actually intimidating to some. Kingyoto, I know exactly what you're going through, and for the well being of your concious, your emtions, your sex life, hell for you, lose the weight while building muscle. Did I say clean bulk, no. Did I say cut, no. Lift hard 3 times a week, hit the abs 2-3 times a week giving them their own days, and do HIIT cardio 3-5 times a week. Cardio after workouts, and/or if you lift in the morning, go on an empty stomach. Your only supplementation should be whey protein. If you wish, the amino acid L-Carnitine could be used if you wish to, however, don't expect miracles. This is all coming from a guy who was in the same position as you, but worse. I had no friends, didn't know anything about girls, no focus, no drive, and spiraling downward into a whirlwind of depression. I've been there, I've done that. I'm out of it, and so can you. Lose the weight first until you've reached a desired picture of yourself through the MIRROR. Dont go by the number the scale tells you, go by what you look like. Once you've reached it, then slowly, I mean SLOWLY clean bulk. You'll gain mass, strength, and more this way. When it's all over, you'll be a much happier individual. For those who disagree with what I said, you cannot talk unless you have personal experience of being the overweight kid. I dont care what science/bodybuilding theories tell you, forget them, this is about you Kingyoto. Do it for yourself. The only thing that stands before you now, and the 10% BF you in 6-8 months is an obstacle you created; Doubt and Uncertainty. Surpass these obstacles, and get moving. The hands on the clock will forever change, but will you take the time and effort to change as well? The choice is yours.
_____________________________
Current Supplements: Nutrex Lipo6, Whey, BCAA, Multi, Flax, EGCG, VC, VB Complex, L-Arginine
Current Cycle: Cutting Phase 3, Hardcore Cut. (Pre-Cross Country Conditioning)
“That which does not kill me, makes me stronger."
(in reply to kingyoto)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 11/20/2007 3:36:12 PM
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kingyoto
Posts: 1273
Joined: 9/29/2007
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Wow just wow that is such an insperation to me. I feel so motivated right now. I really believe what you say is great advice and your post has given me a real confidence boost. I can't wait to look so great and just rub it the faces of anyone who ever gave me **** I can't wait to show myself that i'm not a loser and I can acomplish anything. Some day when I reach my goal of 180 lbs. 10% bodyfat. some day i'll be there but really thanks for the advice it really means a lot to me.
_____________________________
the anti yet Coalition- founder
Rank: guerrilla revolutionary
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
- Attributed to General George Patton
"A girl phoned me the other day and said... Come on over, there's nobody home. I went over. Nobody was home." Rodney Dangerfield
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." Albert Einstein
http://myopalmasta.myminicity.com/
http://myopalmasta.myminicity.com/ind
(in reply to PearlJammer919)
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RE: one day kills progress help!? - 11/20/2007 8:45:18 PM
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PearlJammer919
Posts: 2002
Joined: 2/26/2007
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I'm glad it was appreciated, and good luck!
_____________________________
Current Supplements: Nutrex Lipo6, Whey, BCAA, Multi, Flax, EGCG, VC, VB Complex, L-Arginine
Current Cycle: Cutting Phase 3, Hardcore Cut. (Pre-Cross Country Conditioning)
“That which does not kill me, makes me stronger."
(in reply to kingyoto)
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