when u guys train how do u go to failure? how were ur results with the different ways?

Other.  Right now I increase weight with each set, getting 12 reps on each set.  I'm in maintenance mode tho, so I don't try very hard.
 
Normally I start with a warmup, then a weight I can do 10 times, move down so i can get another 10, and then do that one more time for every exercise.

ORIGINAL: toolman4052

Other.  Right now I increase weight with each set, getting 12 reps on each set.  I'm in maintenance mode tho, so I don't try very hard.

Normally I start with a warmup, then a weight I can do 10 times, move down so i can get another 10, and then do that one more time for every exercise.

o ok so normally ur doing every set to failure (besides the warm up)?

yep.
 
And I forgot to post about the results I get from each.
 
With what I'm doing now, I may gain some strength, but mroe than likely no mass gains, I may even lose some mass.
 
The old way has worked great for me several times.  The key is changing up the way you reach failure every now and then so your body doesn't get too accustomed to one technique.

yea thats wat i was thinking. i just finished HST so u dont even get to failure until the last workout but now i dont know if i should have every set to failure or the last set to failure

Interesting study on training to failure

The point to ponder is...

This investigation demonstrated a potential beneficial stimulus of NRF (nonfailure) for improving strength and power, especially during the subsequent peaking training period, whereas performing sets to failure resulted in greater gains in local muscular endurance.

Marc C. David
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Hmm, the study didn't address hypertrophy! The nonfailure group did have lower cortisol levels, which would imply that it is better for hypertrophy, but it seems that wasn't directly measured.

I said other, i increase weight after each set, for example if i am power cleaning for 4 sets of 6 reps i will warm up with 6x135lbs, then for my first set do 6x155lbs, 2nd set 6x175lbs, third set 6x185lbs, then on my last set i will do 195 as many times as possible up to 6 reps.

Age: 17



Stats:5'11 242lbs

Lifting Maxes:

Bench-255
Squat-325
Clean-230

Hmm, the study didn't address hypertrophy!

Precisely!

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

As I posted before, failure is never the target of my workout.

First of all, you can't train to failure and train frequently.

Second reason, each workout's weights should be planned and increased systematically, so there is no way you can train to failure this way since you won't be able to increase the weights each time. Eventually you will fail, but not every workout. Failure for a few weeks usually means it's time to deload.

Third reason is that failure does not occur because muscle fatigue. It occurs in the CNS level which stops so it can rest and recover. Hencs, the stress failure produces is very high, while the effect is minimal.

If going to failure.. I usually do a something like
4X10,8,6-failure..
Increasing the weight each set and dropping the reps...
 
If working with single weight.. I'll do more of a 4X6-8 with a weight that I know i'll only be able to push/pull  5 to 7 reps on the 4th set....  
 
To me failure means being able to push the weight, on your own without assistance... with good form.. If I need help from a spotter or if i start contorting my body un-naturally, to get better leverage...I don't count that rep..  
 

ORIGINAL: David1991

when u guys train how do u go to failure? how were ur results with the different ways?

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I agree and disagree with your comment below.. I think you're 100% correct if assuming failure means doing 4 sets of an exercise and on the 4th set or all the sets for that matter, the last few reps being with bad form, adjusting body postion to allow other unnatual movements to assist witheh push/pull....
 
To me going to failure is so misunderstood... In order for a muscle to be properly stimulated, it has to have stress put on it.. and damage has to occure in order for growth to take place..
 
IMO--- if you're working out and not going to failure your going to stagnate... and maintain... but again, going to failure means... pushing the weight until you're unable to do another rep with good form.. that's failure..
 
What Failure Isn't:  loading too much weight on a bar and barely doing 2-3 reps while contorting your body and bursting blood vessals in your head trying to push it..forced reps.. is not failure.. Forced reps should only be done periodically and only if you have hit a platue.... You should also pick your battles and not do forced reps throughout your entire routine.. only on select muscles that are lagging.. and for a short period of time..  
 
But the problem being.. most consider forced reps.. going to failure and they're two totally different training methods.. If that's what most consider failure then you're right.. CNS will eventually set in... but not in a few weeks..  
 
I also disagree that you have to do 3 or 4 sets in order to have mass and strength increases.. one set to warm up and one set going to failure IMO will do that same as 3 sets of managable weight and then the last set being to failure..
 
I hear lots of talk about CNS and due to contrary belief, it's not something that is easy to acheive.. it takes months of pushing the body with massive amounts of weight to effect the central nervous system.. often mistaken for severe soreness, pulled muscles and tendons... not CNS...
 
Has anyone here actually suffered from CNS Fatigue?  If you have to think for longer than a second.. you probably haven't..
 
Most people that suffer from CNS are advanced lifters that have to push their bodies to such an extreeemee degree in order to gain strength and mass..
 
Not the 145 lbs 16 year old who piddles around the gym 5 days a week 2 hours a day.....doing rear laterals with 15lb DB's..
 
Not meaning to insult any young guys or people who do laterals with 15lbs.... Just trying to make a point...
 
*CNS is very misunderstood..
*Going to failure is very misunderstood...
*Forced Reps are often confused with Going to failure...
*Formed Reps should not be done with every exercise you do.. pick your battles for forced reps..
 

ORIGINAL: coldfire

As I posted before, failure is never the target of my workout.

First of all, you can't train to failure and train frequently.

Second reason, each workout's weights should be planned and increased systematically, so there is no way you can train to failure this way since you won't be able to increase the weights each time. Eventually you will fail, but not every workout. Failure for a few weeks usually means it's time to deload.

Third reason is that failure does not occur because muscle fatigue. It occurs in the CNS level which stops so it can rest and recover. Hencs, the stress failure produces is very high, while the effect is minimal.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

I always go to failure. Except I do a weight which I'd find that I'd realistically get 6-10 reps in with, progressively of course.

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

I agree and disagree with your comment below.. I think you're 100% correct if assuming failure means doing 4 sets of an exercise and on the 4th set or all the sets for that matter, the last few reps being with bad form, adjusting body postion to allow other unnatual movements to assist witheh push/pull....

To me going to failure is so misunderstood... In order for a muscle to be properly stimulated, it has to have stress put on it.. and damage has to occure in order for growth to take place..

IMO--- if you're working out and not going to failure your going to stagnate... and maintain... but again, going to failure means... pushing the weight until you're unable to do another rep with good form.. that's failure..

We are talking about concentric failure, which means you lift until you fail to finish the lift.

Trying to reach failure in your workout is a flawed approach. I don't even see how it can be done if you plan your reps, sets and weights for a period of time.

Failure might occur while training when you are trying to systematically increase the weight (each workout/week/training cycle), but I stand behind my words: Failure should NOT be the target of your workout.

Read about how failure occurs and how it affects your body. It is not the failure which causes muscle to grow, it is progressive overload while inducing enough microtrauma. Training constantly to failure is counter-productive.

What Failure Isn't: loading too much weight on a bar and barely doing 2-3 reps while contorting your body and bursting blood vessals in your head trying to push it..forced reps.. is not failure.. Forced reps should only be done periodically and only if you have hit a platue.... You should also pick your battles and not do forced reps throughout your entire routine.. only on select muscles that are lagging.. and for a short period of time..

But the problem being.. most consider forced reps.. going to failure and they're two totally different training methods.. If that's what most consider failure then you're right.. CNS will eventually set in... but not in a few weeks..

I wasn't talking about forced reps.

I also disagree that you have to do 3 or 4 sets in order to have mass and strength increases.. one set to warm up and one set going to failure IMO will do that same as 3 sets of managable weight and then the last set being to failure..

This is Mike Mentzer's H.I.T approach, which is wrong. Mentzer thought that muscle's failure is what causes it to be stressed and overcompensate. Since this type of training gets you to failure each time you won't be able to train frequently and with enough volume to make gains. Very few people can gain this way.

Strength gains are not about pushing your self to failure. They are about frequent stimulation of your CNS. Why do you think power lifters never train to failure?

Hypertrophy is a result of enough microtrauma caused by performing enough reps with high enough intensity.

Neither of them requires training to failure.

I hear lots of talk about CNS and due to contrary belief, it's not something that is easy to acheive.. it takes months of pushing the body with massive amounts of weight to effect the central nervous system.. often mistaken for severe soreness, pulled muscles and tendons... not CNS...

Has anyone here actually suffered from CNS Fatigue? If you have to think for longer than a second.. you probably haven't..

Most people that suffer from CNS are advanced lifters that have to push their bodies to such an extreeemee degree in order to gain strength and mass..

Not the 145 lbs 16 year old who piddles around the gym 5 days a week 2 hours a day.....doing rear laterals with 15lb DB's..

Not meaning to insult any young guys or people who do laterals with 15lbs.... Just trying to make a point...

*CNS is very misunderstood..
*Going to failure is very misunderstood...
*Forced Reps are often confused with Going to failure...
*Formed Reps should not be done with every exercise you do.. pick your battles for forced reps..

I suggest again you to read about failure and how it affects the CNS. It really is stressfull. How many of you here can squat 3 times a week to failure? My guess is no one...

ORIGINAL: Panther72

I said other, i increase weight after each set, for example if i am power cleaning for 4 sets of 6 reps i will warm up with 6x135lbs, then for my first set do 6x155lbs, 2nd set 6x175lbs, third set 6x185lbs, then on my last set i will do 195 as many times as possible up to 6 reps.

that would be last set to failure then. unless ur saying u could get more than 6 with the 195