RE: ok...who thinks we need this
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 4:31:08 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 5883
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quote:
ORIGINAL: njmuscle66
many individuals go to on line vet places and order the pellets. And the same places that sell the SERMS so discussed on here also sell the conversion kits .....so not sure if you are just being funny or not. Since your knowledge of bodybuilding goes beyond that of the typical member here
My only point is the "for research use only disclaimer is useless and would not protect the consumer or the seller when and if the FDA cracks down..........That is all I wanted to express
No, I was just saying I had not heard of anyone using Fina.. The side affects with the QV = Quality Vet compounds of that **** must be insane. "Scary Stuff" You never hear many people talk about fina anymore.
I see what you were getting at though. Drugs such as these are legal as long as they are used within the boundries of what they are intended for.
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to njmuscle66)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 4:57:49 PM
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odw777
Posts: 1920
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quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
So back to the availability issue: Toolman says I can walk into Wal-Mart and buy DHEA, yet ever since I first bought it hassle-free at GNC, I've heard nothing but speculation about whether it's banned or not.
Are you telling me that if I wanted to risk blowing my LDL Cholesterol through the ceiling, cause a CoQ10 deficiency, and shut down my balls for a 15 Lb-in-30-day gain, I could walk into a health food store here in the United States TODAY and plop down my credit card for a bottle of Superdrol just like that? Because (and I really hope I don't have to elaborate any further on such an obvious point) if that's not the case, then Marc is right, and this is not the place to talk about it.
I don't know about health food stores, because I don't shop there due to the high prices, but you could go to my gym's store, plop down your credit card and get superdrol clone or a number of other phs.
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 9:07:38 PM
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MuscleMachine14
Posts: 487
Joined: 5/24/2006
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if having a steroid board on this site would be a huge legal issue, why does the forum on bodybuilding.com have one without any problems?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17
_____________________________
Age: 18
Height: 5'7"
Body Weight: 180-185
BF %: 8 %
Incline Barbell: 195 x 8
Squat: 295 x 8, ass to ground
Shoulder Press: 175 x 8
Barbell Row: 195 x 8
Skullcrushers: 105 x 10
(All lifts are on 3rd set)
(in reply to njmuscle66)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 9:37:30 PM
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toolman4052
Posts: 2667
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Russellville AR
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quote:
ORIGINAL: johnnyb1635
quote:
ORIGINAL: toolman4052
quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
ORIGINAL: odw777
...And yeah serms can be bought legally.
I don't dispute that. Raw, injectable testosterone can be bought legally.
Hell, I know two people at my office who use transdermal testosterone patches prescribed by their doctors.
It seems no one here is willing to stop kidding themselves about the possession or intent portion of the laws they erroneously think exploiting loopholes exempts them from.
Don't bother. You've answered my question when you failed to point out which GNC I can walk into, plop down my credit card, and walk out of with a bottle of Nolvadex and no prescription.
Incedentally, this is precisely why people like Marc are opposed to "education" about these matters taking place on his site: because there seem to be a lot of really permissible ideas about what constitutes "PERFECTLY LEGAL" floating around, when the facts about such "legality" are anything but settled.
Well, you can't even get legal prohormones at GNC, but replacing "GNC" with "local supplement/health store" I get where you're coming from. Unless legal, OTC SERMS (rebound xt, 6-oxo, novedex xt) are discussed, there is no place for discussion of SERMS period.
Rebound XT, 6-oxo, and Novedex XT are not SERMS my brother, they are Aromatase Inhibitors. We're talking a whole different hormonal process.
My bad... SEE, this is why we need an article describing it... Are there any legal ones?
What exactly is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator)? Wikipedia's definition and long explanation aren't very clear to me...
Novedex claims to be both anti-estrogenic and pro-testosterone boosting....
(in reply to johnnyb1635)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 6:47:38 AM
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veggeep
Posts: 3043
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Reston, VA
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quote:
My bad... SEE, this is why we need an article describing it... Are there any legal ones?
What exactly is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator)? Wikipedia's definition and long explanation aren't very clear to me...
Novedex claims to be both anti-estrogenic and pro-testosterone boosting....
A'ight... this is where I borrow a phrase from Vaughn...
"Do some more research"
You know, Marc was right. Why, in particular, does it have to be here?? Because people don't want their information more than two clicks away from the site they're presently reading?? Come on, TM. I googled it and learned more about SERMS in five minutes than I ever knew before. Personally, when Vaughn first dropped the term, i thought he meant "serum", as in, "don't bother with orals, go find an injectable".
None of this is proof that we need yet another education on these matters conveniently laid out here on DBB.com. The answers are readily available to anyone with a search engine.
Here's a writeup about superdrol
Here's a site with hundreds of excellent articles
All about SERMS
A handful of web definitions for SERM
Ooops! Lookie here in item #9... Never been to this site before...
That took exactly two minutes to browse, copy, and paste the URLs. Seriously. I don't mean to be a dick, but I think it's safe to say the vast majority of complaints about the "lack of information" about this material is just plain laziness on the part of those seeking it.
A Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator is a drug that acts like estrogen on some tissues in the body, but blocks estrogen uptake by other types of tissues. I'm no PhD, but if someone had breast cancer, and breast cancer were a product of the action of estrogen on target tissues, I would want a way to block the action on that tissue without shutting down all the other useful functions estrogen provides. Hence, it makes sense you'd want a drug that could selectively block the action of the hormone.
Compare that to an aromataze inhibitor, which is designed to prevent the body from turning excess testosterone into estrogen (aromatization) in the first place.
(in reply to toolman4052)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 7:10:22 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 8344
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Well done guys!
You've all been invited to guiness world records picture taking!
Im surprised this thread wasnt locked/deleted at around page 4-5
Get this to page 10 and were definitely in guiness 
I dont care if something is legal or not, im not injecting or swallowing stuff designed for animals, animals enzymes can differ a lot to a humans, just because its legal doesnt make it safe
Seriously, this site doesnt need this kind of **** here, not only that but if there were to be an official place for this talk, wouldnt it just be this topic but 300-400-500? times, however long it lasts
every expert has different ideas of whats good and whats not, every steroid knowledgable person here has disagreed with another steroid knowledgable person to some degree
therefore if a "steroid sub forum" was created, itd just have members cussing each other.
Like marc, veg, me, and a lot of other people have said, you want steroid info, just google it, im sure if you googled bodybuilding forum the first 50 results would yield around at least 25/50 sources with decent information, if not more-most likely.
Its like economics, you have 10 companies releasing the same ****, is there room for an 11th?
No.
Theres hundreds of sites out there releasing steroid info, is there room for more?
Yes
Is it needed?
No.
Like i said would be a good idea, when steroid posts are made, a mod posts anti steroid forum rules here, discourages the use of them, IP log macro gets kickin' and it deletes so mods dont have to keep an eye on it all.
_____________________________
It has come to my attention that others are getting there results, but not me, this is racism!
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 12:02:18 PM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 925
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bulkingup
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleMachine14
if having a steroid board on this site would be a huge legal issue, why does the forum on bodybuilding.com have one without any problems?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17
I don't think the legality is the major issue (although it is a concern) My understanding is this forum is anti-steroid(and PH) and should , in my opinion stay that way.
Sure DBB Could have a steroid forum. there are plenty of things we could do.....we could all steer our cars with our feet....
But that don't make it a good F*ck!n Idea now does it?
If people want a steroid forum they should go to a forum such as the link listed above.
not trying to be an ass
just my 2 cents
AGAIN...why don't you people READ?
No one stated they wanted a steroid forum or even a PH forum.
It was one of 2 things.
A legal hormone STICKY...or to delete all hormonal threads.
just seeing the words "hormone" and "steroids" and immediatly saying "dbb is anti steroids!!!!!" is ridiculous. Read the posts and figure out what the thread is ACTUALLY about.
this will be my last post in the thread.
good luck to whoever wants to monitor the boards to stop the 15 year olds from discussing hormonal activities
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to bulkingup)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 1:10:44 PM
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bulkingup
Posts: 1968
Joined: 2/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: bulkingup
quote:
ORIGINAL: MuscleMachine14
if having a steroid board on this site would be a huge legal issue, why does the forum on bodybuilding.com have one without any problems?
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17
I don't think the legality is the major issue (although it is a concern) My understanding is this forum is anti-steroid(and PH) and should , in my opinion stay that way.
Sure DBB Could have a steroid forum. there are plenty of things we could do.....we could all steer our cars with our feet....
But that don't make it a good F*ck!n Idea now does it?
If people want a steroid forum they should go to a forum such as the link listed above.
not trying to be an ass
just my 2 cents
AGAIN...why don't you people READ? I did read....was just responding to MM14
No one stated they wanted a steroid forum or even a PH forum. MM14 asked about a steroid forum above
It was one of 2 things.
A legal hormone STICKY...or to delete all hormonal threads.
just seeing the words "hormone" and "steroids" and immediatly saying "dbb is anti steroids!!!!!" is ridiculous. Read the posts and figure out what the thread is ACTUALLY about. I was responding to 1 post NOT the Entire thread
this will be my last post in the thread.
good luck to whoever wants to monitor the boards to stop the 15 year olds from discussing hormonal activities
I personally don't feel a need to discuss steroids or hormonal products in this forum , nor do I feel we need A List to hand out to 15 year olds telling them how to use these illegal substances(thus the perception of advocacy)
PH's in my opinion DO NOT promote the HEALTHY lifestyle that I have always considered that DBB stood for. Again just my two cents worth , not trying to offend anyone.....
_____________________________
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ON 100% whey , Superpump 250, PlasmaJet, HDROL, cell tech,Animal pack
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jane
ooookkkkkkaaaayyyyyy!!!!!!!! I like you I like you.
ARE YOU HAPPY???!!!!!!????!!!!
quote:
Original: YET
HAHAHAHA. Put that in your sig. It'll be tits!
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 2:12:21 PM
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toolman4052
Posts: 2667
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Russellville AR
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bulkingup
PH's in my opinion DO NOT promote the HEALTHY lifestyle that I have always considered that DBB stood for. Again just my two cents worth , not trying to offend anyone.....
That is an excellent point. Legality aside, they aren't healthy. I'm glad you said that. This site should definitely stay towards being healthy.
And veg, I found some articles about them (and I spent like 30 minutes doing it actually) that were good articles, but of course I had to find the ones written by geniuses. I basically didn't understand whether or not they:
1.) stopped production of estrogen
2.) acted like estrogen, taking its place
3.) attached to estrogen, making it inactive
4.) made effects of estrogen less noticeable
By the name "SERM" I assumed either #2 or #3, but those articles were too complex for me. I understand it now though.
(in reply to bulkingup)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 6:52:43 PM
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MuscleMachine14
Posts: 487
Joined: 5/24/2006
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first off, i was just proving the whole legality thing was bulls*** when i posted that link
second, if we are anti-steroid and PH, then why don't any of the mods do s*** about deleting threads about the two subjects. in all the time mods spent bulls***ting in this thread they could have been screening through others and deleting ph and steroid threads.
to sum it all up... either remain anti-steroid and PH and delete the threads or give in and allow them. Don't say that the site is against any of that and then allow it to be discussed here
_____________________________
Age: 18
Height: 5'7"
Body Weight: 180-185
BF %: 8 %
Incline Barbell: 195 x 8
Squat: 295 x 8, ass to ground
Shoulder Press: 175 x 8
Barbell Row: 195 x 8
Skullcrushers: 105 x 10
(All lifts are on 3rd set)
(in reply to toolman4052)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 9:06:51 PM
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johnnyb1635
Posts: 653
Joined: 3/6/2006
From: Boston Mass
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: toolman4052
quote:
ORIGINAL: bulkingup
PH's in my opinion DO NOT promote the HEALTHY lifestyle that I have always considered that DBB stood for. Again just my two cents worth , not trying to offend anyone.....
That is an excellent point. Legality aside, they aren't healthy. I'm glad you said that. This site should definitely stay towards being healthy.
And veg, I found some articles about them (and I spent like 30 minutes doing it actually) that were good articles, but of course I had to find the ones written by geniuses. I basically didn't understand whether or not they:
1.) stopped production of estrogen
2.) acted like estrogen, taking its place
3.) attached to estrogen, making it inactive
4.) made effects of estrogen less noticeable
By the name "SERM" I assumed either #2 or #3, but those articles were too complex for me. I understand it now though.
SERMS basicly alter the way your bodies cells recieve and use estrogen. It almost mimics estrogen.
_____________________________
AFAA(Aerobics and Fitness Associations of America) Certified Personal Trainer.
(in reply to toolman4052)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 9:39:12 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 5883
Joined: 6/21/2006
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SERMs (which basically block the Estrogen Receptor, aka. ER) are NOT to be confused with AIs (which block conversion of testosterone to estrogen). common AIs are: 6-OXO, Novedex XT, Rebound XT, Rebound Reloaded, Formadrol Extreme, etc.
The most commonly used SERMs are:
Tamoxifen (aka. Nolvadex, aka. TAMOXIFENO UR , aka. TAMOXIFENO FERRER, FARMA, aka. TAMOXIFENO LEPORI, aka. TAMOXIFENO CINFA, aka. TAMOXIFENO BAYVIT, aka. TAMOXIFENO EDIGEN, aka. TAMOXIFENO ELFAR, aka. TAMOXIFENO FUNK, aka. TAMOXIFENO RATIOPHARM, aka. YACESAL, aka. ADIFEN, aka. ZYMOPLEX, aka. Tamox-TEVA, aka. Tamoxifen-CT, aka. Tamoxifen-ratiopharm, aka. Tamoxifen 10 Heumann, aka. Tamoxifen AL 10, aka. Tamokadin, aka. Tamoximerck, aka. Tamoxistad)
note that all SERMs have their own sides (loss of libido) and risks (liver toxicity concerns).
despite the marketing of some companies (touting phytoestrogens such as daidzein or resveratrol as SERM replacement, despite extremely low ER binding affinity), no really effective OTC SERM has been shown so far, AFAIK.
in the US, prescription SERMs can be (legally?) acquired as research chemicals, such as from chemoneresearch.
in the EU, prescription SERMs can be legally acquired via fill-yourself online prescriptions from dutch online apothecaries, such as goldpharma.
Got to admit I did hijack that from someone off of BB.com but the dude is so damn informative. I don't know that much about pro hormones I am just starting to do more research on them. Wanted to know what you can stack with what ya know? I would hate to take 2 mythlated substances and really really stress my liver.
Anyways just thought I would share that post with you guys.
The guy is informative as hell. this guys advice should be used as stickys for bodybuilding forums. I did not even know that SERMS had an affect on the liver or the libido.
< Message edited by IBendBarbells -- 8/5/2007 9:43:06 PM >
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to johnnyb1635)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/5/2007 9:42:51 PM
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Marc David
Posts: 9187
Joined: 4/6/2003
From: Bay Area -CA
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I think this is about the only major thread on PHs and Steroids that I'm aware of at the moment. And I'd more of a debate on having a forum for it not actually on the usage.
Once everybody has vented and said their peace, it will be deleted.
I'm more than 100% certain this topic will resurface. I think in 3 years this is about the 5th post on the subject?
No matter, it's all good.  I think Vaughn brought up a decent subject to discuss.
The mods do an excellent job of removing threads about steroids and PHs when they seem them. Since this is a free forum and there is a Report post option in which ANY community member can report an issue...
quote:
second, if we are anti-steroid and PH, then why don't any of the mods do s*** about deleting threads about the two subjects. in all the time mods spent bulls***ting in this thread they could have been screening through others and deleting ph and steroid threads.
What makes you think ANY of these issues are just the mods and admins problem? Why haven't you scanned the supplement forum and alerted us?
Let me remind you.. IT IS YOUR PROBLEM TOO
You are a member of this community. I expect that as such, if there is an inapprpriate post, a sexist or racist comment, spam or a discussion on the usage of illegal substances that YOU as members will alert the people (mods and admins) who can remove it. I built this place for you guys. Not me to get my rocks off. I want this place to be awesome for you and for the people that choose to stay and participate a place they have bookmarked.
When there's trash on the ground, if you just wait for the garbage people or some city worker to pick it up... then it's a dirty city until that area gets clean.
Same goes for this community. Pitch in. You see a post about Prohormones and Steroids? Then use the report button so I can get an e-mail and remove it without having to scan thru 1000+ posts a day.
My point is...
If you see it, report it. Be active. Make this place what you want it to be. I assure you as you pitch in and others do the same, we'd be unstoppable as a group.
< Message edited by Marc David -- 8/5/2007 9:45:25 PM >
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(in reply to johnnyb1635)
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