RE: ok...who thinks we need this
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 9:10:50 AM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
Nolvadex--Prescription drug for breast cancer in Women. Probably not the best to give advice to People and Kids to take this.
All this " YOU NEED A SERM" talk...Yeah a Serm is the answer to everything. I used Novedex Xt and it worked great for me F CK a Serm
Not to mention, it throws us right up against the legality wall again.
What's the point of discussing a legal pro-hormone if the PCT is dependent on items that require a prescription? If you're going to break the law to obtain a SERM (not to mention the cholesterol meds you may end up needing after an oral cycle), why not dispense with all the liver risks of an oral and just go for the oil?
like I've stated MANY times before, SERMS can be obtained legally and for very little money.
do more research.
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 9:19:52 AM
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MuscleMachine14
Posts: 438
Joined: 5/24/2006
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i would also like to see a section to educate members about prohormones just for the knowledge. I find it very annoying when some stupid 15 year old starts making posts about prohormone use, and they continue to do so even though this forum is supposed to be "PH and AAS Free." Considering that many prohormones are still legal and advertised regularly, it makes since to have a guide to using them but DOES NOT condone the use of them.
_____________________________
Age: 18
Height: 5'7"
Body Weight: 180-185
BF %: 8 %
Incline Barbell: 195 x 8
Squat: 295 x 8, ass to ground
Shoulder Press: 175 x 8
Barbell Row: 195 x 8
Skullcrushers: 105 x 10
(All lifts are on 3rd set)
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 9:50:48 AM
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veggeep
Posts: 1456
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Reston, VA
Status: offline
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quote:
like I've stated MANY times before, SERMS can be obtained legally and for very little money.
do more research.
Pardon my exhasperation, but now I feel like we're going in circles. Your PM to me specifically names one route by which to obtain SERMs "legally". In truth, your advice was just another re-packaged explanation of a loophole through which to circumvent the prescription necessity.
Either way, at the end of the day, you end up in possession of a prescription medication without having been prescribed it. How is that legal again?
I don't get why this is such a grey area for people advocating Nolvadex (or any legal-with-a-prescription med, for that matter). If you have to jump through so many hoops to obtain this stuff, your claims of legality fall apart. Period. The law doesn't give two sh*ts about ONLY how you obtained the stuff. The law encompasses procurement, possession, AND use.
If you have to make any reference to a substance that can't be bought over the counter at a local health food store without a prescription, then you are refering to DE FACTO clandestine activity.
Show me the LEGAL, OTC Estrogen blockers, and convince me they're as effective as the prescription variety. Enough with the "just buy it from Canada and have it shipped on a full moon while reading Noam Chomsky" advice. That is not legal -that's merely taking a less direct route to the same illegal end.
< Message edited by veggeep -- 8/4/2007 9:57:00 AM >
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 10:26:28 AM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
like I've stated MANY times before, SERMS can be obtained legally and for very little money.
do more research.
Pardon my exhasperation, but now I feel like we're going in circles. Your PM to me specifically names one route by which to obtain SERMs "legally". In truth, your advice was just another re-packaged explanation of a loophole through which to circumvent the prescription necessity.
Either way, at the end of the day, you end up in possession of a prescription medication without having been prescribed it. How is that legal again?
I don't get why this is such a grey area for people advocating Nolvadex (or any legal-with-a-prescription med, for that matter). If you have to jump through so many hoops to obtain this stuff, your claims of legality fall apart. Period. The law doesn't give two sh*ts about ONLY how you obtained the stuff. The law encompasses procurement, possession, AND use.
If you have to make any reference to a substance that can't be bought over the counter at a local health food store without a prescription, then you are refering to DE FACTO clandestine activity.
Show me the LEGAL, OTC Estrogen blockers, and convince me they're as effective as the prescription variety. Enough with the "just buy it from Canada and have it shipped on a full moon while reading Noam Chomsky" advice. That is not legal -that's merely taking a less direct route to the same illegal end.
there are no OTC estrogen blockers that are as effective as the prescription variety, thus the seperation of OTC and prescription.
Obtaining Nolvadex/any SERM is completely Legal. If you DECIDE to use it for human consumption, thats your choice, however finding/purchasing/getting a serm shipped to your house is 100% LEGAL.
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 1:05:26 PM
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odw777
Posts: 843
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jayman666
Nolvadex--Prescription drug for breast cancer in Women. Probably not the best to give advice to People and Kids to take this.
All this " YOU NEED A SERM" talk...Yeah a Serm is the answer to everything. I used Novedex Xt and it worked great for me F CK a Serm
The only advice I would give someone under 18 is, not to use such a substance (S drol) or whatver...I wouldn't figure they are taking it anyway so I might as well help them. Yeah have some young kid taking a damn SERM for breast cancer. Nice one. Let them make there own mistake, giving out medical advice on hormones and estrogen isn't cool, kinda stupid really.
What do you think a doctor will prescribe you if you go into his office and say you took a cycle without pct? Most likely a serm. I know one kid that was prescribed clomid after using m1t.
Where's your bloodwork to show everything worked out "great"? Weren't you the one that only did like 10mg of sd?
But you're just enforcing the point Vaughn was initially trying to make about the amount of misinformation going around on here.
And yeah serms can be bought legally.
(in reply to Jayman666)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 1:22:25 PM
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veggeep
Posts: 1456
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Reston, VA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: odw777
...And yeah serms can be bought legally.
I don't dispute that. Raw, injectable testosterone can be bought legally.
Hell, I know two people at my office who use transdermal testosterone patches prescribed by their doctors.
It seems no one here is willing to stop kidding themselves about the possession or intent portion of the laws they erroneously think exploiting loopholes exempts them from.
Don't bother. You've answered my question when you failed to point out which GNC I can walk into, plop down my credit card, and walk out of with a bottle of Nolvadex and no prescription.
Incedentally, this is precisely why people like Marc are opposed to "education" about these matters taking place on his site: because there seem to be a lot of really permissible ideas about what constitutes "PERFECTLY LEGAL" floating around, when the facts about such "legality" are anything but settled.
(in reply to odw777)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 1:34:08 PM
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Jayman666
Posts: 135
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline
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You can buy a Serm legally yes. It's intended for research purposes only. It says right on box not Sterile, not for human consumption.. Doesn't sound too safe. I'm sure if you went to a doctor with a gyno issue he could prescribe you Nolvadex or perhaps even something else that might be better for you, Nolvadex might not be for everybody if you have a medical history, diabetic or high blood pressure or possibly anything.
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 1:52:39 PM
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toolman4052
Posts: 1875
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Russellville AR
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
ORIGINAL: odw777
...And yeah serms can be bought legally.
I don't dispute that. Raw, injectable testosterone can be bought legally.
Hell, I know two people at my office who use transdermal testosterone patches prescribed by their doctors.
It seems no one here is willing to stop kidding themselves about the possession or intent portion of the laws they erroneously think exploiting loopholes exempts them from.
Don't bother. You've answered my question when you failed to point out which GNC I can walk into, plop down my credit card, and walk out of with a bottle of Nolvadex and no prescription.
Incedentally, this is precisely why people like Marc are opposed to "education" about these matters taking place on his site: because there seem to be a lot of really permissible ideas about what constitutes "PERFECTLY LEGAL" floating around, when the facts about such "legality" are anything but settled.
Well, you can't even get legal prohormones at GNC, but replacing "GNC" with "local supplement/health store" I get where you're coming from. Unless legal, OTC SERMS (rebound xt, 6-oxo, novedex xt) are discussed, there is no place for discussion of SERMS period.
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 1:57:24 PM
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johnnyb1635
Posts: 653
Joined: 3/6/2006
From: Boston Mass
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: toolman4052
quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
ORIGINAL: odw777
...And yeah serms can be bought legally.
I don't dispute that. Raw, injectable testosterone can be bought legally.
Hell, I know two people at my office who use transdermal testosterone patches prescribed by their doctors.
It seems no one here is willing to stop kidding themselves about the possession or intent portion of the laws they erroneously think exploiting loopholes exempts them from.
Don't bother. You've answered my question when you failed to point out which GNC I can walk into, plop down my credit card, and walk out of with a bottle of Nolvadex and no prescription.
Incedentally, this is precisely why people like Marc are opposed to "education" about these matters taking place on his site: because there seem to be a lot of really permissible ideas about what constitutes "PERFECTLY LEGAL" floating around, when the facts about such "legality" are anything but settled.
Well, you can't even get legal prohormones at GNC, but replacing "GNC" with "local supplement/health store" I get where you're coming from. Unless legal, OTC SERMS (rebound xt, 6-oxo, novedex xt) are discussed, there is no place for discussion of SERMS period.
Rebound XT, 6-oxo, and Novedex XT are not SERMS my brother, they are Aromatase Inhibitors. We're talking a whole different hormonal process.
_____________________________
AFAA(Aerobics and Fitness Associations of America) Certified Personal Trainer.
(in reply to toolman4052)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 2:28:58 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3686
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
Nolvadex--Prescription drug for breast cancer in Women. Probably not the best to give advice to People and Kids to take this.
All this " YOU NEED A SERM" talk...Yeah a Serm is the answer to everything. I used Novedex Xt and it worked great for me F CK a Serm
Not to mention, it throws us right up against the legality wall again.
What's the point of discussing a legal pro-hormone if the PCT is dependent on items that require a prescription? If you're going to break the law to obtain a SERM (not to mention the cholesterol meds you may end up needing after an oral cycle), why not dispense with all the liver risks of an oral and just go for the oil?
like I've stated MANY times before, SERMS can be obtained legally and for very little money.
do more research.
I am confused? They want to use a Serm with PH's?.... I guess I just don't get it... and NolvadeXT or what ever is not even the same compound or anything close to it.. I am lost I will stay out of this one
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 2:31:56 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3686
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: johnnyb1635
quote:
ORIGINAL: toolman4052
quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
ORIGINAL: odw777
...And yeah serms can be bought legally.
I don't dispute that. Raw, injectable testosterone can be bought legally.
Hell, I know two people at my office who use transdermal testosterone patches prescribed by their doctors.
It seems no one here is willing to stop kidding themselves about the possession or intent portion of the laws they erroneously think exploiting loopholes exempts them from.
Don't bother. You've answered my question when you failed to point out which GNC I can walk into, plop down my credit card, and walk out of with a bottle of Nolvadex and no prescription.
Incedentally, this is precisely why people like Marc are opposed to "education" about these matters taking place on his site: because there seem to be a lot of really permissible ideas about what constitutes "PERFECTLY LEGAL" floating around, when the facts about such "legality" are anything but settled.
Well, you can't even get legal prohormones at GNC, but replacing "GNC" with "local supplement/health store" I get where you're coming from. Unless legal, OTC SERMS (rebound xt, 6-oxo, novedex xt) are discussed, there is no place for discussion of SERMS period.
Rebound XT, 6-oxo, and Novedex XT are not SERMS my brother, they are Aromatase Inhibitors. We're talking a whole different hormonal process.
*BUMP!*
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to johnnyb1635)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 2:33:10 PM
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odw777
Posts: 843
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IBendBarbells
I am confused? They want to use a Serm with PH's?.... I guess I just don't get it... and NolvadeXT or what ever is not even the same compound or anything close to it.. I am lost I will stay out of this one
Why wouldn't you use a serm with phs?
They're steroids. What's the difference if they have to be converted to a steroid in the body? The end product is still there. And most stuff on the market now are prosteroids, with no conversion needed at all.
< Message edited by odw777 -- 8/4/2007 2:35:48 PM >
(in reply to IBendBarbells)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 2:43:37 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3686
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: odw777
quote:
ORIGINAL: IBendBarbells
I am confused? They want to use a Serm with PH's?.... I guess I just don't get it... and NolvadeXT or what ever is not even the same compound or anything close to it.. I am lost I will stay out of this one
Why wouldn't you use a serm with phs?
They're steroids. What's the difference if they have to be converted to a steroid in the body? The end product is still there. And most stuff on the market now are prosteroids, with no conversion needed at all.
Thats pretty much why I was staying out of this one lol. I don't know how androgenic ph's are it seems as though they are half as strong as illegal methylated compounds though.. Pretty crazy!
I was not saying that you can't take serms with PH's... I just wanted to know if thats what everyone was talking about.. I did not understand why anyone used NolvadeXT in the same sentence as Nolvadex / Serms, It almost seemed like they were comparing two completely different compounds.
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to odw777)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 3:45:26 PM
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njmuscle66
Posts: 925
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
like I've stated MANY times before, SERMS can be obtained legally and for very little money.
do more research.
Pardon my exhasperation, but now I feel like we're going in circles. Your PM to me specifically names one route by which to obtain SERMs "legally". In truth, your advice was just another re-packaged explanation of a loophole through which to circumvent the prescription necessity.
Either way, at the end of the day, you end up in possession of a prescription medication without having been prescribed it. How is that legal again?
I don't get why this is such a grey area for people advocating Nolvadex (or any legal-with-a-prescription med, for that matter). If you have to jump through so many hoops to obtain this stuff, your claims of legality fall apart. Period. The law doesn't give two sh*ts about ONLY how you obtained the stuff. The law encompasses procurement, possession, AND use.
If you have to make any reference to a substance that can't be bought over the counter at a local health food store without a prescription, then you are refering to DE FACTO clandestine activity.
Show me the LEGAL, OTC Estrogen blockers, and convince me they're as effective as the prescription variety. Enough with the "just buy it from Canada and have it shipped on a full moon while reading Noam Chomsky" advice. That is not legal -that's merely taking a less direct route to the same illegal end.
there are no OTC estrogen blockers that are as effective as the prescription variety, thus the seperation of OTC and prescription.
Obtaining Nolvadex/any SERM is completely Legal. If you DECIDE to use it for human consumption, thats your choice, however finding/purchasing/getting a serm shipped to your house is 100% LEGAL.
Much the same way Finaplix is legal as long as you use it for your prize dairy cow betsy. Come on Vaughn-that is a stretch
Obtain these "research chemicals" are far from legal. Just that these sites have not made it onto the FDA radar just yet-They will
I remained silent through these pages. however my two cents.
I see ZERO NEED for any discussions of anabolic steroids that are controlled substances and illegal.
IF we are going to allow Prosteroid posts, I would want them in a seperate section so I can avoid them if I so choose.
_____________________________
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 4:08:05 PM
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veggeep
Posts: 1456
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Reston, VA
Status: offline
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quote:
Much the same way Finaplix is legal as long as you use it for your prize dairy cow betsy. Come on Vaughn-that is a stretch
Thank god, I've been beating this drum for three days now. Nice to see I'm not as out of touch as I thought.
Yeah, if my limited and very recent education on these matters is worth anything, SERMs block estrogen uptake in target tissues. They do not inhibit aromatization, which would seem the more prudent route to take anyway.
Taking a SERM during PCT seems a little like closing the barn door after the horse got out IMO.
(in reply to njmuscle66)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 4:18:32 PM
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veggeep
Posts: 1456
Joined: 10/10/2005
From: Reston, VA
Status: offline
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So back to the availability issue: Toolman says I can walk into Wal-Mart and buy DHEA, yet ever since I first bought it hassle-free at GNC, I've heard nothing but speculation about whether it's banned or not.
Are you telling me that if I wanted to risk blowing my LDL Cholesterol through the ceiling, cause a CoQ10 deficiency, and shut down my balls for a 15 Lb-in-30-day gain, I could walk into a health food store here in the United States TODAY and plop down my credit card for a bottle of Superdrol just like that? Because (and I really hope I don't have to elaborate any further on such an obvious point) if that's not the case, then Marc is right, and this is not the place to talk about it.
(in reply to veggeep)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 4:20:47 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3686
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: njmuscle66
quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: veggeep
quote:
like I've stated MANY times before, SERMS can be obtained legally and for very little money.
do more research.
Pardon my exhasperation, but now I feel like we're going in circles. Your PM to me specifically names one route by which to obtain SERMs "legally". In truth, your advice was just another re-packaged explanation of a loophole through which to circumvent the prescription necessity.
Either way, at the end of the day, you end up in possession of a prescription medication without having been prescribed it. How is that legal again?
I don't get why this is such a grey area for people advocating Nolvadex (or any legal-with-a-prescription med, for that matter). If you have to jump through so many hoops to obtain this stuff, your claims of legality fall apart. Period. The law doesn't give two sh*ts about ONLY how you obtained the stuff. The law encompasses procurement, possession, AND use.
If you have to make any reference to a substance that can't be bought over the counter at a local health food store without a prescription, then you are refering to DE FACTO clandestine activity.
Show me the LEGAL, OTC Estrogen blockers, and convince me they're as effective as the prescription variety. Enough with the "just buy it from Canada and have it shipped on a full moon while reading Noam Chomsky" advice. That is not legal -that's merely taking a less direct route to the same illegal end.
there are no OTC estrogen blockers that are as effective as the prescription variety, thus the seperation of OTC and prescription.
Obtaining Nolvadex/any SERM is completely Legal. If you DECIDE to use it for human consumption, thats your choice, however finding/purchasing/getting a serm shipped to your house is 100% LEGAL.
Much the same way Finaplix is legal as long as you use it for your prize dairy cow betsy. Come on Vaughn-that is a stretch
Obtain these "research chemicals" are far from legal. Just that these sites have not made it onto the FDA radar just yet-They will
I remained silent through these pages. however my two cents.
I see ZERO NEED for any discussions of anabolic steroids that are controlled substances and illegal.
IF we are going to allow Prosteroid posts, I would want them in a seperate section so I can avoid them if I so choose.
I don't know any humans who inject Finaplix... Tren Acetate from what I have been told is the same compound intended for humans instead of cattle.
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to njmuscle66)
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RE: ok...who thinks we need this - 8/4/2007 4:25:50 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3686
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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LoL this discussion I swear.. I know im not 100% on anything I have to say about anabolics.. They typically have forum moderators with years of experience for these types of conversations..
This is pretty much the reason why I totally agree with everyone just lock/delete all the threads and discussions.. Someone said something about legal problems with having a steroid board on here... Well imagine whats going to happen when some 15 year old boy come onto this site and starts taking PH's for full year cycles because some retard in here told him it was okay.. Say he gets a liver infection that may or may not be related to the PH's anyways.. He tells him mother and father about the discussions on this forum and then they want to take it to court "Not that I know any of the legalities behind any of that" Just throwing out a scenario.
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to veggeep)
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