RE: 04blackmax's post continued
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 8:23:15 AM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
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I don't know, I figured since novadex says it can be used as a stand alone it should be fine. I figure I have nothing to lose by using a PCT. Its recommended on the bottle anyway.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to toolman4052)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 8:30:39 AM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
I don't know, I figured since novadex says it can be used as a stand alone it should be fine. I figure I have nothing to lose by using a PCT. Its recommended on the bottle anyway.
I'd use a PCT just to be careful.
HOWEVER...the amount of dhea youve put in your body is negligable. Read the ingredients...then read DHEA conversion rates.
why does NO ONE listen to me?
It's not like I say stuff just for the hell of it.
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 8:56:21 AM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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Well, im planning on novadex...waiting a month or so and then depending on how that all went trying an actual PH, perhaps bold as you mentioned as it isnt very strong.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 9:03:50 AM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Well, im planning on novadex...waiting a month or so and then depending on how that all went trying an actual PH, perhaps bold as you mentioned as it isnt very strong.
the side effects arent very strong...
however the results are.
users report 10-22lbs in 6-12 weeks.
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 10:44:44 AM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Well, im planning on novadex...waiting a month or so and then depending on how that all went trying an actual PH, perhaps bold as you mentioned as it isnt very strong.
the side effects arent very strong...
however the results are.
users report 10-22lbs in 6-12 weeks.
Id probably be on the 10lb side because im only like 134. 10Lbs would make a pretty noticeable difference on me. .hopefully the end of this M-1 + Novadex + Bold apread across 4 months from now will have me at 150 by year end.
Back to the water gains vaughn, would you still insist its water gains when coupled with noticeable increases in strengh? I mean, just because generally speaking, theres a positive correlation between muscle size and muscle strength.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 10:51:50 AM
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toolman4052
Posts: 1875
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Russellville AR
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Back to the water gains vaughn, would you still insist its water gains when coupled with noticeable increases in strengh? I mean, just because generally speaking, theres a positive correlation between muscle size and muscle strength.
sometimes the additional water weight can help your strength, and at the end of a cycle some of the strength goes away as water weight is shed. But that's just from my personal experiences.. others may be different.
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 11:46:35 AM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Well, im planning on novadex...waiting a month or so and then depending on how that all went trying an actual PH, perhaps bold as you mentioned as it isnt very strong.
the side effects arent very strong...
however the results are.
users report 10-22lbs in 6-12 weeks.
Id probably be on the 10lb side because im only like 134. 10Lbs would make a pretty noticeable difference on me. .hopefully the end of this M-1 + Novadex + Bold apread across 4 months from now will have me at 150 by year end.
Back to the water gains vaughn, would you still insist its water gains when coupled with noticeable increases in strengh? I mean, just because generally speaking, [B]theres a positive correlation between muscle size and muscle strength.[/B]
please show me a scientific study that shows a direct relationship between muscle size and muscle strength.
water weight will instantly increase strength...I bet you can get some added strength in under 7 days by upping your sodium intake(dont believe me? try it!)
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 11:55:18 AM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3685
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
quote:
ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue
quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Well, im planning on novadex...waiting a month or so and then depending on how that all went trying an actual PH, perhaps bold as you mentioned as it isnt very strong.
the side effects arent very strong...
however the results are.
users report 10-22lbs in 6-12 weeks.
Id probably be on the 10lb side because im only like 134. 10Lbs would make a pretty noticeable difference on me. .hopefully the end of this M-1 + Novadex + Bold apread across 4 months from now will have me at 150 by year end.
Back to the water gains vaughn, would you still insist its water gains when coupled with noticeable increases in strengh? I mean, just because generally speaking, [B]theres a positive correlation between muscle size and muscle strength.[/B]
please show me a scientific study that shows a direct relationship between muscle size and muscle strength.
water weight will instantly increase strength...I bet you can get some added strength in under 7 days by upping your sodium intake(dont believe me? try it!)
This is probably one of the most interesting things you have said..
I wonder if the water bloat can affect endurance too? do you think? But I agree most methylated susbstances that cause bloating often associate with strength too.. Not trying to change the convo!! just using that as evidence in support of the water theory.
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 1:26:19 PM
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toolman4052
Posts: 1875
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Russellville AR
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IBendBarbells
This is probably one of the most interesting things you have said..
I wonder if the water bloat can affect endurance too? do you think? But I agree most methylated susbstances that cause bloating often associate with strength too.. Not trying to change the convo!! just using that as evidence in support of the water theory.
But high sodium intakes can be dangerous....but if you could find a safe amount that would make a difference, that'd be a pretty sweet thing to try, lol.
(in reply to IBendBarbells)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 2:09:14 PM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
Status: offline
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quote:
This is probably one of the most interesting things you have said ..
I wonder if the water bloat can affect endurance too? do you think? But I agree most methylated susbstances that cause bloating often associate with strength too.. Not trying to change the convo!! just using that as evidence in support of the water theory.
Water bloat should not effect endurance too much, however it will still effect it. The more sodium one takes in the higher your blood pressure will ride...the more strain on your heart/BP, the less work it will be able to do thus less endurance.
water HELPS with strength, however it is not the only thing that is responsible for strength gains on methylated substances.
An example of this would be Superdrol. Superdrol is incredibly dry(no excess water, it can't aromatize, and most users report decreased bf%), however strength is known to jump off the chart within 2 weeks of starting.
On the other hand, Phera Plex, one of the wettest legal compounds promotes a lot of strength as well.
SD works through glycogen stores whereas PP works through water weight.
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to IBendBarbells)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 2:45:53 PM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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Vaughn,
Here is a scientific study relating muscle size directly to strength. This is why I believe strength increases are evidence that an increase in muscle, not just water, is occuring.
Strength Correlates to Muscle Size
A muscle's strength has a strong relationship to its cross sectional area in both men and women. Muscle enlargement with a corresponding increase in strength was first shown scientifically as early as 1897.
Ikai M, Fukunaga T, Calculation of muscle strength per unit cross-sectional area of human muscle by means of ultrasonic measurements. Int Z Angew Phsiol, 26:26-32, 1968.
Hetting T: Physiology of Strength. Springfield. Ill, C. C Thomas, 1961.
Morpurgo B: U:ber Aktivita:ts-Hypertrophie der willkurlichen Muskeln. Virchows Arch. Pathol Anat Physiol, 150:522-544, 1897.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 3:50:24 PM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 3685
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Vaughn,
Here is a scientific study relating muscle size directly to strength. This is why I believe strength increases are evidence that an increase in muscle, not just water, is occuring.
Strength Correlates to Muscle Size
A muscle's strength has a strong relationship to its cross sectional area in both men and women. Muscle enlargement with a corresponding increase in strength was first shown scientifically as early as 1897.
Ikai M, Fukunaga T, Calculation of muscle strength per unit cross-sectional area of human muscle by means of ultrasonic measurements. Int Z Angew Phsiol, 26:26-32, 1968.
Hetting T: Physiology of Strength. Springfield. Ill, C. C Thomas, 1961.
Morpurgo B: U:ber Aktivita:ts-Hypertrophie der willkurlichen Muskeln. Virchows Arch. Pathol Anat Physiol, 150:522-544, 1897.
quote:
water HELPS with strength, however it is not the only thing that is responsible for strength gains on methylated substances.
An example of this would be Superdrol. Superdrol is incredibly dry(no excess water, it can't aromatize, and most users report decreased bf%), however strength is known to jump off the chart within 2 weeks of starting.
On the other hand, Phera Plex, one of the wettest legal compounds promotes a lot of strength as well.
SD works through glycogen stores whereas PP works through water weight.
When you bloat it does not just mean your bloating in your stomach face etc... Is it possible that water retention could also create a form of puffy muscles? I have noticed people who get bloated and it looks like their muscles are a bit puffy. So could the excess water in the muscles also be associated with muscle size? Which would then prove the theory of muscle size and also vaughns theory of water rentention....
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/10/2007 9:22:34 PM
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toolman4052
Posts: 1875
Joined: 8/12/2006
From: Russellville AR
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: IBendBarbells
When you bloat it does not just mean your bloating in your stomach face etc... Is it possible that water retention could also create a form of puffy muscles? I have noticed people who get bloated and it looks like their muscles are a bit puffy. So could the excess water in the muscles also be associated with muscle size? Which would then prove the theory of muscle size and also vaughns theory of water rentention....
nicely put
(in reply to IBendBarbells)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/15/2007 5:51:29 AM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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No comments on my scientific study? Well anyway im on my 18th day with 15 days to go and I have now definately gained a satisfactory amount of weight (both on the scale and in appearance) Since we are talking about a relatively small amount of weight, it fluxuates a few lbs during the day, but lately I have been 134-136, whereas before using the product I was at most 130. I expect to be 140 by the time I get on novadex.
On a side note, I did notice a small amout of acne develop on my forhead, its gotta be the product because I havent had more than a single zit pop up in a couple years, now there is a small area which broke out. It dosent bother me, because in HS it was worse anyway....makes me think something is actually going on with my testosterone level? Damn I wish I could get some sort of reading of this at home to verify.
To sum up, so far so good. Not life shattering muscle gains but gains nonetheless.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to toolman4052)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/27/2007 12:24:13 PM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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Im on my last week of taking M1-D and weigh 136, so Probably will have gained 6-7 lbs when its all said and done.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 8/27/2007 1:31:53 PM
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VaughnTrue
Posts: 890
Joined: 2/19/2006
From: NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 04blackmax
Im on my last week of taking M1-D and weigh 136, so Probably will have gained 6-7 lbs when its all said and done.
make sure to check your weight 2 weeks after you finish.
I'm willing to bet 3-4lbs of that are water/bf. I hope they're not though.
If 3-4lbs of that are water/bf...that means you gained less than you shouldve naturally within that time frame(at your current weight)
just keep eating big bro...all you really need for now.
_____________________________
"poena est vires in dissimulo"
Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"
Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%
(in reply to 04blackmax)
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RE: 04blackmax's post continued - 9/2/2007 11:30:01 AM
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04blackmax
Posts: 172
Joined: 6/3/2007
Status: offline
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Done with the M1D, picked up Novedex today. I plan on doing 2 capsules per night for 4 weeks. Im about 138 now and was out of town for business so my workout schedule was a little choppy last week. I will be goin hard again for the next month to hopfully be in the 140 range by the time im done with the Novedex.
_____________________________
"You are what you eat"
Age - 26
Height - 5'4"
Weight - 145
Arms - 14.5"
_____________________
Food...Creatine, Fish Oil
Multivitamin, Milk Thistle
RPN HAVOC
(in reply to VaughnTrue)
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If it's non-hormonal, I wonder if you should still use a PCT? but there is a possibility you will see gains from Novedex, especially if it boosts your natural test levels higher up than they normally are...
Theres the truth vaughn, happy? lol
? 
