Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness!
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Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 4/7/2007 1:33:14 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
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What I am going to say is based on scientific research.
There are repeated studies that support this information.
Some of you may know this and may put it into practice...most probably do not.
I will quote 3 trials as reported by Cribb, P., Ph. D.
You can get MORE Strength and More Muscle and Decrease Fat Faster
compared to average supplement practices.
I know, sounds like a stupid supplement commercial.
Well, this is nothing special you have to buy...just simple adjustment in how and when you do simple things!
How?
Optimal Supplementation and Meal Timing
Lets compare the finding of the average supplementation practice to the optimal supplementation practice...then I will sum it all up.
Trial #3
Meal Timing vs Not Meal Tming
Meal timing compared taking a protein/carbohydrate supplement "any time" compared to taking the same supplement "30 minutes pre and immediatly post" workout. These were resistance training workouts.
Here are the actual findings from the two groups:
("+" = increase from pre trial / "-" = decrease from pre trial )
Based on measures taken before and after 10 weeks following Max-OT and the given protocol.
"supplement any time"
Bench Strength = +9kg
Squat Strength= +17kg
Deadlift Strength= +17kg
Type I Muscle +350
Type II Muscle +800
Type IIx Muscle +800
Contractile Protein measure: 18
Lean Mass +1.5
Fat Mass +0.25
supplement "30 minutes pre and immediatly post workout"
Bench Strength= +13kg
Squat Strength= +20kg
Deadlift Strength= +20kg
Type I Muscle +450
Type II Muscle +1200
Type IIx Muscle +1200
Contractile Protein measure: 30
Lean Mass +2.75
Fat Mass -0.25
Compared to the "supplement any time" here is what the "30 minutes pre and immediatly post workout" group experienced
Strength 23% more
+ Muscle 46-83% more
- Fat loss +-100% more
Would you want to gain 23% more strength, gain 60% more muscle and lose fat?
Here is what they did:
30 minutes before and immediatly after training they consumed a supplement equal to:
Whey Protein 0.18 grams per pound of bodyweight
Carbohydrate 0.2 grams per pound of bodyweight
Creatine Monohydrate at about .03 grams per pound of bodyweight (about 1/4 teaspoon per 40 pounds)
175 pound person consumed
protein 32 grams
Carbs 35 grams
Creatine Monohydrate 5.25 grams
Trial #2 and #1 to follow!
< Message edited by danmirage -- 4/7/2007 7:25:11 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 4/7/2007 4:35:15 AM
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PimpWivGunZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: My mum
Status: offline
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that sounds awesome and i for one will take that into practice
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 4/7/2007 7:19:48 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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Now on to Trial 1 and 2
These two were performed before Trail 3 and led to the question, "Does it matter what time we take the supplement to get the results we want?"
It doesn't take a genius to see that benefit in the strength gains, fat loss, muscle gain, total muscle increase of each fraction of muscle, and increase in muscle protein that resulted from the Protein-Carbohydrate-creatine combination are significant compared to carbohydrate alone, protein alone and even carbohydrate/creatine and protein/creatine!
Trial 1
Trial 1 looked at the results experienced by 4 groups after 11 weeks
Cho - carbohydrate
Cho+Cr- carbohydrate + Creatine Monohydrate
WP - Whey protein
Wp+Cr - Whey protein + Creatine Monohydrate
Cho
Bench increase= +5kg
Pulldown increase= = +5kg
Squat increase= = +7kg
Type I Muscle +100
Type II Muscle +250
Type IIx Muscle +250
Lean Mass +.75kg
Contractile Protein measure:7
Cho+Cr
Bench increase= +20kg
Pulldown increase= = +17kg
Squat increase= = +30kg
Type I Muscle +600
Type II Muscle +950
Type IIx Muscle +850
Lean Mass +3.75kg
Contractile Protein measure:27
WP
Bench increase= +20kg
Pulldown increase= = +17kg
Squat increase= = +30kg
Type I Muscle +300
Type II Muscle +700
Type IIx Muscle +600
Lean Mass +2.25kg
Contractile Protein measure:18
Wp+Cr
Bench increase= +22kg
Pulldown increase= = +22kg
Squat increase= = +35kg
Type I Muscle +800
Type II Muscle +1100
Type IIx Muscle +950
Lean Mass 3.5kg
Contractile Protein measure:27
What do we see?
Strength
10%, 30%, and 16% greater increases with the WP-Cr as compared to WP or Cho-Cr!
Muscle fiber increase
33%+, 15%+, 11%+ greater increase with the WP-Cr as compared to WP or Cho-Cr!
Lean Mass increase
66%+ greater increase with the WP-Cr or Cho-Cr as compared to WP or Cho!
Contractile Protein Increases
50%+ greater increase with the WP-Cr or Cho-Cr as compared to WP or Cho!
Trial 2
Trial 2 looked at the results experienced by 3 groups after 8 weeks
Protein
Protein-Carbohydrate
Creatine-Protein-Carbohydrate
Protein
Bench increase= +12kg
Pulldown increase= = +12kg
Squat increase= = +25kg
Type I Muscle +300
Type II Muscle +600
Type IIx Muscle +600
Lean Body Mass +5kg
Fat Mass -2kg
Contractile Protein measure:20
Protein-Carbohydrate
Bench increase= +8kg
Pulldown increase= = +12kg
Squat increase= = +22kg
Type I Muscle +400
Type II Muscle +750
Type IIx Muscle +625
Lean Body Mass +4kg
Fat Mass +2kg
Contractile Protein measure:20
Creatine-Protein-Carbohydrate
Bench increase= +23kg
Pulldown increase= = +18kg
Squat increase= = +34kg
Type I Muscle +500
Type II Muscle +1375
Type IIx Muscle +950
Lean Body Mass +7kg
Fat Mass -1kg
Contractile Protein measure:32
What do we see?
Strength Increases
90%+, 50%, and 36% greater increase with Cr+WP+Cho compared to WP+Cho and WP
Lean Body Mass increases
40% greater increase with Cr+WP+Cho compared to WP+Cho and WP
Muscle fraction increases
66%+, 80%+, and 52%+ greater increase with Cr+WP+Cho compared to WP+Cho and WP
Contractile Protein increase
60% greater increase with Cr+WP+Cho compared to WP+Cho and WP
Fat mass
WP outperformed Cr+WP+Cho, while WP+Cho gave a negative result
< Message edited by danmirage -- 4/7/2007 7:21:18 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 4/24/2007 12:30:41 PM
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redtailshark2000
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/23/2006
Status: offline
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I find the trial 2 results very interesting. I think I can explain though.
Just protein promoted lean mass and a fat loss because of the lack of a high glycemic carb. This would lead to less calories (unless they were all on the same calorie diet). Also, without and insulin spike they would be less likely to store fat.
Protein plus high glycemic carb resulted in more calories, thus more fat. Also, the insulin spike could have led to more fat storage. In my experience I agained the most fat when clyling of creatine and just doing dextrose and whey.
Protein plus carb plus creatine would give more lean mass gains due to the volumizing effect of creatine. I really can't explain the fat loss though.
This is what I think, but I by no means think I am 100% right or anything. What do you think Dan? You are the master .
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/3/2007 1:26:16 PM
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DA
Posts: 1916
Joined: 8/11/2005
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I don't understand how protein and a carbohyrdate would generate less muscle than protein alone.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/11/2007 11:41:18 AM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 5883
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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hmmm I might do something with this..
A post work out shake may help me out alot.. I usually eat all day and because of my schedule I end up eating just before the gym too then 2 hours after the gym.. But I wonder If I can sneak a shake in right after the work out soo:
5:30 - Cottage cheese + Fruit + Pasta
6:15 - Gym
7:15 - Protein shake <--- added in
8:00 - dinner - Chicken + Rice + Greens
10:00 - Protein shake
I know my diet falls really close to work outs but its for a reason... Drive time and work slows me down my last meal is at 1:00 then I don't start back up again until 5:30 So thats 4 hours of time that I don't eat..
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/13/2007 9:49:13 AM
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IBendBarbells
Posts: 5883
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline
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thanks bro ill incorperate that into the diet.. seems my protein is almost sufficient but lack of carbs and veggies may make it hard for my body to digest.
_____________________________
--Ninja spy of the Emancipation Detoxification.--
"Man.. It feels good when alot of losers are around. "
Every man has his strong points.
In a party full of average fish the sharks really stand out.
With the way things are going Ill be 240 by March 2010
Short term goal - 215lbs 10% BF
New Scale weight - coming soon.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/26/2007 10:49:43 AM
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Krieger
Posts: 96
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
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Hey dan, i'm taking a mass shake with two scoops that is 90 Carb and 30 Protein each - plus 3 teaspoon of skim milk (13 protein) - that makes 118 carb and 44 protein pre workout, which I drink about 45 min-1 hour before to digest... And post workout the same plus 1 scoop whey of 23g. Can I expect the same results?
I'm 200 lbs, by the way!
< Message edited by Krieger -- 5/26/2007 10:50:58 AM >
_____________________________
My Cutting Journal!
185 cm
93 kg
BF 14%
LBM 79 kg
MY CURRENTLY GOAL:
BF 10% at max!
LONG TERM GOAL:
BF = 8%
LBM 90 Kgs (11 more to go! let's go!)
(in reply to IBendBarbells)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/27/2007 9:24:38 AM
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Krieger
Posts: 96
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
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Oh, yes - I'm bulking right now. What about the amounts ?
And milk... what's wrong if it ? I never had any problem at all. But I never understood why I heard often of not drinking milk around workout... can you clarify about it ?
AND the amount is small ?
_____________________________
My Cutting Journal!
185 cm
93 kg
BF 14%
LBM 79 kg
MY CURRENTLY GOAL:
BF 10% at max!
LONG TERM GOAL:
BF = 8%
LBM 90 Kgs (11 more to go! let's go!)
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/29/2007 1:20:45 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
And milk... what's wrong if it ? I never had any problem at all. But I never understood why I heard often of not drinking milk around workout... can you clarify about it ?
Fat and casein are slow release and can slow the other nutrient's availability.
There is nothing wrong with it, we are talking about optimizing the response!!!
quote:
What about the amounts ?
You do the math.
Here is what they did:
30 minutes before and immediatly after training they consumed a supplement equal to:
Whey Protein 0.18 grams per pound of bodyweight
Carbohydrate 0.2 grams per pound of bodyweight
Creatine Monohydrate at about .03 grams per pound of bodyweight (about 1/4 teaspoon per 40 pounds)
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Get more Strenth, More Muscle and More Leanness! - 5/31/2007 1:40:31 PM
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Krieger
Posts: 96
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline
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Thank you Dan.
Health is always a controversial topic... Muscle Nerd from OA said to take 30 gram of fat post workout to increase testosterone - is this really true ? It's confusing - the bodybuilder wants testosterone or quicker absorbing ?
_____________________________
My Cutting Journal!
185 cm
93 kg
BF 14%
LBM 79 kg
MY CURRENTLY GOAL:
BF 10% at max!
LONG TERM GOAL:
BF = 8%
LBM 90 Kgs (11 more to go! let's go!)
(in reply to danmirage)
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though not as much as with carbs. 
