RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? Many questions... help!
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/15/2007 9:59:28 PM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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Dan, this is the Whey I picked up earlier (it has BCAA's in it)
http://tinyurl.com/3ymx7n
How would you recommend me going about dosing this for pre & post workout? How much for me, and when for P/PWO? I read your stuff in your For Losing Fat article of course about P/PWO dosing... but you mentioned taking BCAA's separately, etc... and this supp has it in it... so I kinda need some pro help here ;) (i assumed this would count as one my meals, so i need to get an idea on this so i know how to incorporate it into my daily intake)
EDIT: I just read this on your article "When you can not use BCAAs/Essential Amino Acids, take 0.2 g/lb whey 30 min. pre workout, and 0.1 g/lb whey following." Should I stick to that, or would I alter that since my whey supplement has BCAAs/EAAs??
< Message edited by drastic -- 3/15/2007 10:32:16 PM >
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 12:03:20 AM
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drastic
Posts: 37
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OK, here is my meal plan for review. I made the meals using fitday.com, so all of the gathered data should be very accurate as far as what foods will offer me what. The meals are in no particular order, btw. Dan, you said I should shoot for equal ratios of macros while I start this off, right? Well, if so, I managed to end up with an almost perfect daily ratio! Also, I had planned on eating the same thing daily for my first week, right? Not a big deal, I eat to get full - I generally don't have a problem with burn-out 
:: Meal 1 ::
Oatmeal - 1/2 cup
Mushrooms – 2 cups
Sliced Turkey – 4 oz
Olive oil – 1 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 596
Total Mass = 49g/54g/22g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 35%-29%-36% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 2 ::
Extra Lean Ground Beef – 4 oz
Baked Potato – 1.5 large size
Leaf Lettuce – 4 leaves
Lemon Juice – 1 fl oz
Tuna – 2.5 oz
EFA supplement – 3 pills
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 562
Total Mass = 48g/50g/20g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 35%-33%-32% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 3 ::
Tuna – 5 oz
Leaf Lettuce – 4 leaves
Wheat Pasta – 1 cup
Olive oil – 1.5 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 613
Total Mass = 47g/55g/24g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 32%-33%-36% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 3 (Alternate) :: This was created in response to the “don’t eat too much fish because of mercury” issue… I figured I could just swap this and the other Meal 3 around different days of the weak to limit my Tuna intake.
Ground Turkey – 6 oz
Leaf Lettuce – 4 leaves
Wheat Pasta – 1 cup
Olive oil – .25 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 603
Total Mass = 43g/55g/22g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 31%-34%-35% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 4 ::
Tilapia – 2 fillets
Brown Rice – 3/4 cup
Steamed Broccoli – 1/2 cup
Olive oil – 1.5 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 610
Total Mass = 49g/51g/24g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 33%-32%-36% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 5 ::
Chicken – 1 breast
Baked Potato – 1 large
Green Beans – 2.5 cup
Olive oil – 1 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 573
Total Mass = 46g/56g/22g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 33%-32%-35% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 6 ::
Whey Supplement – 30g (pre-workout)
Whey Supplement – 15g (post-workout)
Water – 12 oz
Total Calories = 171
Total Mass = 31g/6g/2g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 73%-15%-12% (p/c/f)
:: TOTALS ::
Total Daily Calories = 3125
Total Daily Mass = 270g/272g/114g (p/c/f)
Actual Daily Ratio = 34%-34%-32% (p/c/f)
Total Water w/ Meals = 112 fl oz
_____________________________
- GABE
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 12:34:23 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6347
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This is a good start.
Please understand that Product labels can legally lie and actual ingredients are listed on the nutrition panel. So this 100% Whey protein is actually dosed with artificial ingredients.
Note that items are listed in order of volume!!
From the label:
quote:
Natural and Artificial Flavors, Salt, Xanthan Gum, FD&C Red #40, Carrageenan, Cellulose Gum, Lecithin, Sucralose, Proprietary Protein Blend (Whey Protein Concentrate, Ion-Exchange Whey Protein Isolate, Hydrolyzed Whey Peptides)
Artificial ingredients can impede your fat loss attemps.
GNC does not make a pure protein.
On the plan...I will be straightforward...
The outline is looking good.
Your nutrient levels are off.
You should start with a minimum of 45% carbs
So (max) Protein at 25% - (min) Carbs 45% and (max)fat 30% would be an extreme for hormonal blance.
So, raise carbs and lower protein and fat.
Your veggies need to be varied in color and more fibrous!
Lettuce is not ideal all the time...especially with pasta.
Peppers, onions, garlic, celantro, parsley, chard, kale, calliflower...
(The two bold ones discussed at the bottom.)
Cut back on the olive oil and get that fat below 30%...over 30% can have a slowing effect on the metabolism.
Why garlic and celantro? Why more colors?
Your body stores toxins in fat cells. When you are losing fat, these toxins are released into the system. Antioxidants and other phytonutrients found in colorful foods protect your cells from damage. Garlic and celantro are detoxifiers that help remove toxins from the system!
Try slightly smaller protein and fat portions and higher carb portions...
Great start>
Oh, and water primarily between meals.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 8:47:09 AM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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OK, I can take back the Whey I got from GNC... but what brand would you suggest instead? MuscleMilk? Should I get the Light formula, or just the plain old original?
I guess I misunderstood you about keeping macro ratios equal at first, but I'll rework it real quick and repost. Also, as Im revising my meal plan here - are any fruits acceptable as a carb? I mean the lower sugar, higher fiber fruits like strawberries, peaches, grapes... etc. Just curious, because I really am not much of a vegetable person - I love fruits (I know, probably bad)
< Message edited by drastic -- 3/16/2007 8:50:19 AM >
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- GABE
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 9:22:03 AM
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Lady C
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I would like to add a couple of points. These are extremely important for someone in your condition to be successful.
MOST IMPORTANT
Go have a full physical with your doctor and get blood work done now. Explain to him/her your plan and get his/her approval.
Go through your cupboards and discard all boxed cereals, crackers, cookies, quick-fix meals, candies, mixes of all kind. These are highly processed carbohydrates that are poor nutritional quality.
I doubt someone of your size & fitness level can do HIIT without losing substantial amount of weight first. This is where your doctor and your blood pressure stats come into play. Make sure you expain to the doctor you plan on doing this High Intensity workouts. I'm not sure your health can take them right now.
I would pick up Optinum Nutritions Whey concentrate for postworkout shakes. It is mostly protein and inexpensive. Last time I checked GNC carried this brand. Otherwise, order it from the internet.
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 9:57:49 AM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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Thank you for reminding me to get this done. I know a physical will be a great thing to have done. What all blood work would you recommend I ask for?
I assure you that I am mentally prepared to do HIIT - when I am focused, I push myself extremely hard. However, if it would be physically unsafe for me to do HIIT... would could I do instead until I lost weight, and at what point should I check into doing HIIT again?
< Message edited by drastic -- 3/16/2007 10:30:12 AM >
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- GABE
(in reply to Lady C)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 10:32:08 AM
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Coop
Posts: 1718
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From: Tucson, Az.
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Honestly just getting to the gym and doing some sort of cardio is a win... just get the habbit of doing it.... you can change the what as you get better.
_____________________________
Eat...Lift....Sleep......Repeat
Enjoy the process.. but crave the goal.
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 12:43:11 PM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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OK, I'll pick up some of the Optimum Nutrition whey soon. These are the 2 products I found on GNC... but as I look at their ingredients, they don't really look very different from the ProPeformance GNC brand that Dan said to steer clear of? I see artificial flavors, etc in these products too - is that standard? Basically, is this what I want or not?
http://tinyurl.com/3cxnku
http://tinyurl.com/32rwow
When you say "if you do not currently perform cardio training, simply starting with the 3 progressive weeks of standard cardio I recommended would be sufficient"... Im assuming you mean the plan to just do cardio warm-up & cool-down for 2-3 weeks right?
< Message edited by drastic -- 3/16/2007 12:53:57 PM >
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(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 1:22:09 PM
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danmirage
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quote:
When you say "if you do not currently perform cardio training, simply starting with the 3 progressive weeks of standard cardio I recommended would be sufficient"... Im assuming you mean the plan to just do cardio warm-up & cool-down for 2-3 weeks right?
No. You missed that post? Note you would still also do the warm up and cool down!
quote:
"If your cardio fitness is low...start with doing 10 minutes post workout for a week then 12 minutes the next week, then 14 minutes the next week...these would be done at a rate that allows you to talk but not with ease because of breath...a heart rate of around 65% of Maximal (220- your age)"
Ask for This product:
Natural ON Whey
Protein Blend (Whey Protein Isolate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Whey Peptides), Cocoa, Fructose, Lecithin, Natural Flavor.
Though I use this product most
Pure Whey
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/16/2007 3:24:00 PM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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My bad, Dan - I totally forgot that you had posted that! Thanks for reminding me on the cardio.
OK, revising my meal plan now - I'll post it after work later tonite. Thanks again all 
_____________________________
- GABE
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/17/2007 7:10:22 PM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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Sorry this took a while to get posted - work has been swamped the past 2 days.
OK, here's my revised meal plan with lower protein/fat and higher carbs. I was shooting for a 20/60/20 p/c/f and I managed to hit it perfectly with my daily totals :) I also varied my "colors" by adding green peppers/onions/carrots (even though Im not a big fan of carrots lol - but I can tolerate them for HEALTH!!)
As for the garlic and cilantro - great suggestions - but how much should I shoot for daily? Like if I flavor my foods with them, will that be enough, or should I consider supplementing them?
:: Meal 1 ::
Oatmeal – 3 cups
Mushrooms – 2 cups
Olive oil – 1/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 559
Total Mass = 25g/92g/13g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 20%-57%-23% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 2 ::
Extra Lean Ground Beef – 2 oz
Baked Potato – 2 cup
Onion – 2.5 cup
Green Pepper – 2.5 cup
Olive oil – 1/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 567
Total Mass = 22g/94g/13g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 17%-61%-23% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 3 ::
Tuna – 1 oz
Leaf Lettuce – 4 leaves
Wheat Pasta – 1 2/3 cup
Olive oil – 2/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 580
Total Mass = 23g/92g/13g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 18%-91%-22% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 3 (Alternate) :: This was created in response to the “don’t eat too much fish because of mercury” issue… I figured I could just swap this and the other Meal 3 around different days of the weak to limit my Tuna intake.
Ground Turkey – 2 oz
Wheat Pasta – 1 1/4 cup
Steamed Carrots – 2 cups
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 596
Total Mass = 25g/94g/13g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 19%-59%-22% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 4 ::
Tilapia – 1/2 fillet
Brown Rice – 1 1/3 cup
Steamed Broccoli – 1 cups
Olive oil – 3/4 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 558
Total Mass = 23g/92g/14g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 17%-61%-22% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 5 ::
Chicken – 1/4 breast
Baked Potato – 2 1/3 cup
Green Beans – 3 1/2 cup
Olive oil – 3/4 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 558
Total Mass = 23g/96g/13g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 17%-60%-23% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 6 ::
Whey Supplement – 40.5g (pre-workout)
Whey Supplement – 21.5g (post-workout)
EFA Pills – 3 pills
Water – 14 oz
Total Calories = 279
Total Mass = 30g (pre) + 16g (post)/10g/6g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 67%-14%-19% (p/c/f)
:: TOTALS ::
Total Daily Calories = 3117
Total Daily Mass = 162g/478g/72g (p/c/f)
Actual Daily Ratio = 20%-60%-20% (p/c/f)
Total Water w/ Meals = 114 fl oz
_____________________________
- GABE
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/18/2007 10:00:34 AM
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drastic
Posts: 37
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Oh, the EFA thing - didn't actually mean to take those with that meal. I was just trying to work their values into my daily total. I'd take them with a normal meal. I'll go ahead and refactor that into an actual meal.
OK, so 33/33/33 was not so hot, and 20/60/20 is probably a lil too far in the other extreme... what would you say about 25/50/25 ?? I know you said "(max) Protein at 25% - (min) Carbs 45% and (max)fat 30%", but is that what you'd like me to actually try for? I'd kinda like to get an exact figure to aim for from you because reworking this whole meal plan takes a lotta time
Also, this is complete speculation... however, I'm inclined to think that I am a carb-sensitive person simply from the fact that I lost so much weight so quickly on ketogenic diets, without doing much exercise at all. Thoughts on this?
Thanks
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- GABE
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/18/2007 1:58:53 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6347
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quote:
Also, this is complete speculation... however, I'm inclined to think that I am a carb-sensitive person simply from the fact that I lost so much weight so quickly on ketogenic diets, without doing much exercise at all. Thoughts on this?
Rubbish. You gained it right back right? Nonsense. Ignore it.
quote:
is that what you'd like me to actually try for? I'd kinda like to get an exact figure to aim for from you because reworking this whole meal plan takes a lotta time
As I said, without testing you and working with you personally, I can only show you how to find the ideal ratio for you. Every person is different and every person does not respond the same to a given ratio.
That said...25/50/25 is a decent middle of the road.
After you eat that way for a week, you will have plenty of input to adjust from!
It can take 3 weeks to get dialed in.
Thats all part of the process. But once you learn how you respond to all the different ratios (you will learn over time) and which one you maintain on best, you know for the rest of your life!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to drastic)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/18/2007 2:03:41 PM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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Perfectly undersood - I'll post another revised meal plan based around 25/50/25 tonite
I understand that changes will probably need to take place down the road as we fine tune the diet based upon results Im seeing (or lack thereof)
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- GABE
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Advice on DB topics for Severely Overweight ppl? M... - 3/18/2007 7:06:44 PM
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drastic
Posts: 37
Joined: 3/14/2007
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LOL, true - can't argue that 
Again, as for the garlic and cilantro - great suggestions - but how much should I shoot for daily? Like if I flavor my foods with them, will that be enough, or should I consider supplementing them?
OK, how is this?
:: Meal 1 ::
Oatmeal – 2 2/3 cups
Mushrooms – 1 cups
Olive oil – 2/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 545
Total Mass = 29g/75g/16g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 23%-48%-29% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 2 ::
Extra Lean Ground Beef – 3.5 oz
Baked Potato – 2 cup
Onion – 1 1/4 cup
Green Pepper – 1 cup
EFA Pills – 3 pills
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 557
Total Mass = 29g/73g/17g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 22%-49%-29% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 3 ::
Tuna – 2.5 oz
Leaf Lettuce – 2 cups
Yams – 2 1/4 cup
Olive oil – 1 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 564
Total Mass = 25g/87g/15g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 19%-56%-25% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 3 (Alternate) :: This was created in response to the “don’t eat too much fish because of mercury” issue… I figured I could just swap this and the other Meal 3 around different days of the weak to limit my Tuna intake.
Ground Turkey – 4 oz
Yams – 1 1/4 cup
Steamed Carrots – 2 cups
Olive Oil – 1/3 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 540
Total Mass = 28g/73g/16g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 23%-48%-29% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 4 ::
Tilapia – 1 fillet
Brown Rice – 1 cup
Steamed Broccoli – 2 cups
Olive oil – 1 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 557
Total Mass = 33g/73g/17g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 24%-48%-28% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 5 ::
Chicken – 1/2 breast
Baked Potato – 2 1/4 cups
Green Beans – 2 cups
Olive oil – 4/5 tbsp
Water – 20 oz
Total Calories = 556
Total Mass = 29g/81g/16g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 22%-52%-27% (p/c/f)
:: Meal 6 ::
Whey Supplement – 40.5g (pre-workout)
Whey Supplement – 21.5g (post-workout)
Water – 14 oz
Total Calories = 249
Total Mass = 46g/10g/3g (p/c/f)
Actual Ratio = 74%-15%-10% (p/c/f)
:: TOTALS ::
Total Daily Calories = 3016
Total Daily Mass = 192g/392g/84g (p/c/f)
Actual Daily Ratio = 25%-51%-24% (p/c/f)
Total Water w/ Meals = 114 fl oz
_____________________________
- GABE
(in reply to danmirage)
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