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RE: Help - 2/4/2007 8:19:53 PM
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saternal
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yeah =D
I've planned out this workout for wednesday:
Compound:
Inclined Barbell Bench Press (chest)
Seated Cable Rows (Back)
Good Mornings (Lower Back)
Seated Military Press with supported Barbell (Shoulders)
Isolation:
Lying Leg curls (Hamstrings)
Supinated Dumbell Tricep Extensions (Triceps)
Does this look fine?
Also do you recommend i should take BCAA?
< Message edited by saternal -- 2/5/2007 2:57:26 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 5:31:49 AM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saternal
i tried em with oatmeal today but i was afraid i used to much heat to cook the eggs. =(
Is cooking the eggs a no-no? I figured 4 egg whites and 1 yoke with 1 cup oatmeal cooked together (i.e. scrambled) would be ok?
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 5:34:47 AM
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saternal
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Its ok as long as the heat isn;t too high. Damages the Protein in the eggs. I'm gonna boil them . it seems easiest this way.
Btw Dan. I should be trying to consume foods lower in GI Index right? Which means things like Spaghetti, Protein Enriched. Lentils , Kidney Beans ? I also heard potatos and carrots have high GI index.
Meal 1 : 6 boiled eggs (1 yolk eaten)
1 tbsp flaxseed oil
100g of Lentils
1 sweet potato
28g protein 16g fat 47g carbs
30 minutes b4 workouts 17g whey
immediately after workout 17g whey
Meal 2-6: 100g Spaghetti - Protein Enriched / Brown Rice / Yam / Sweet Potatos
Broccoli / Cauliflower / Eggplants / Peppers / Bean Sprouts (Boiled/roasted)
Lean Proteins (Roasted/Boiled)
2 tbsp peanut butter
I'll only take the 2 tbsp of peanut butter if i don't eat Salmon / Cod because they alrdy contain alot of fat on their own.
I;ve also decided to stop taking oatmeal and potatos. Mayb once in a while. I'm also not sure about fruits because certain fruits like Grapes , Grapefruits , apples , oranges and pears contain fructose which are low in GI index. Mayb if i took them pre or post workout it would be ok. Also , Yogurt is low in GI. But its dairy so i'm still confused.
< Message edited by saternal -- 2/5/2007 6:02:21 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 5:50:55 AM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saternal
Its ok as long as the heat isn;t too high. Damages the Protein in the eggs. I'm gonna boil them . it seems easiest this way.
Hmm, this is news to me. I don't like "drippy" eggs, so perhaps if I cook them more ... then I should supplement the missing protein with whey? What say you Dan?
Also, I found this post of yours and I was wondering what you meant?
"Eggs can develop into an allergy so I am careful with them."
Lastly, is it necessary/recommended to take a multi-vitamin? I figured with my (now) good diet, 10g BCCA's a day, and 3 tspn of fish oil ... all my nutrients would be provided so the need of a multi-vitamin wouldn't be that great.
Also, I checked out the HST plan ... working every muscle three times a week? Have you seen good results from this Dan? It just goes against everything I know, that's why I'm surprised by this routine ... but it seems simple enough.
Do you happen to have a good link that discusses HIIT? I did a search for it and food some good info, but maybe you have something I missed.
< Message edited by XtremeSki2001 -- 2/5/2007 9:38:36 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 6:04:52 AM
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saternal
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I get what you mean. I don't think that's a good idea because the protein in the morning or any other meal for that matter should come from a whole food. Just my 2-cents =D
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 9:39:45 AM
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danmirage
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quote:
Does this look fine?
yup.
quote:
Btw Dan. I should be trying to consume foods lower in GI Index right?
No, no no ..
Ignore that GI nonsense.
That is ONLY for foods consumed ON THEI R OWN...not for meals.
Eat a complete meal and the GI is nonsesne.
quote:
do you recommend i should take BCAA?
BCAA is a convenient way to get the needed aminos pre during and post workout..but using the whey pre and post accomplished the same thing.
quote:
Is cooking the eggs a no-no?
High heat can damage the nutrients in an egg.
Raw is fine as is cook over lower temps.
The protein is still there.
As for the egg being a highly allergenic food...some people become allergic to them very quickly.
Spaghetti is processed food and not optimal if the goal is fat loss...so eat sparingly.
quote:
decided to stop taking oatmeal and potatos.
Oatmeal is a fantastic food as are potato.
quote:
I'm also not sure about fruits because certain fruits like Grapes , Grapefruits , apples , oranges and pears contain fructose. Mayb if i took them pre or post workout it would be ok.
Fruits may not be ideal except post workout if the goal is fat loss.
FORGET THE GI!!!
quote:
Lastly, is it necessary/recommended to take a multi-vitamin?
Yes.
When I was eating 3500 calories if all fresh, whole, varied, organic foods, 6 serving of veggies a day!!...I had an ongoing and complete analysis of my diet, and with all that I was still deficient in many vitamins and minerals!
Take the multi. You don't want any procecss in the body to be deficient in needed precursors.
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 9:43:33 AM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
quote:
Lastly, is it necessary/recommended to take a multi-vitamin?
Yes.
When I was eating 3500 calories if all fresh, whole, varied, organic foods, 6 serving of veggies a day!!...I had an ongoing and complete analysis of my diet, and with all that I was still deficient in many vitamins and minerals!
Take the multi. You don't want any procecss in the body to be deficient in needed precursors.
Thanks.
Arg! Just placed an order to Amazon, oh well I guess I'll place another one ... care to recommend a multi-vit?
Also, I editted my post, but it looks like you replied while I was doing so ... here are my additional questions:
quote:
ORIGINAL: XtremeSki2001
Also, I checked out the HST plan ... working every muscle three times a week? Have you seen good results from this Dan? It just goes against everything I know, that's why I'm surprised by this routine ... but it seems simple enough.
Do you happen to have a good link that discusses HIIT? I did a search for it and found some good info, but maybe you have a link I missed.
< Message edited by XtremeSki2001 -- 2/5/2007 9:44:48 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 10:44:51 AM
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danmirage
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quote:
Also, I checked out the HST plan ... working every muscle three times a week? Have you seen good results from this Dan? It just goes against everything I know, that's why I'm surprised by this routine ... but it seems simple enough.
I trained almost the whole of year 2006 this way (more like the 3-day program with daily or weekly variation), even though I have decades of training experience. My results were either loss of 1-2 pounds a week in fat or gain 1-2 pounds or more a week in muscle. Depended on my goal.
Granted I have some serious know how...but I just used what I tell everyone.
Nothing special.
The key, as noted by the writer of the HST..is not overtraining. Not overdoing volume.
You want to take advantage of the fast training-recovery hormonal responses.
Is there ever a time to train the body 3x a week vs 2x a week vs 1x a week...?
Sure.
Depends on volume, intensity, goals, etc...
AS for HIIT..
http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp
In a nutshell..
There should be a 5-7 minute warm up (gradual increase jog) before each session and a 5-7 minute cool down (gradually decreasing heart rate jog) followed by appropriate stretching.
The exercise Type can be anything (jog, swim, bike, starmaster, jump rope, row, etc...)
Week 1
One 4-minute cycle:
Warm up jog for 5-7 minutes gradually bringing up heart rate and body temp
Jogging for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Sprinting for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Jogging for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Sprinting for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Jogging for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Sprinting for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Jogging for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Sprinting for 30 seconds followed immediately by
Cool Down jog for 5-7 minutes gradually lowering heart rate and body temp
Appropriate stretching
One 4-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 5-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
Week 2
One 5-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 5-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 6-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
Week 3
One 7-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 7-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 8-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
Week 4
One 8-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 9-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 9-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
Week 5
One 10-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 10-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 11-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
Week 6
One 11-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 12-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 12-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
Week 7
One 13-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 13-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 14-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
Week 8
One 14-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
One 15-minute cycle
(add one 30-second sprint and one 30-second jog)
One 15-minute cycle
(same as previous workout)
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 10:54:55 AM
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XtremeSki2001
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Thanks again, Dan!
2 lbs a week would be nice. I'm 226-227 now, I'd like to be < 200 by August 
I'll keep track and we'll see where I end up ... I think I'm ready to roll!
Starting my meal/workout plan tomorrow ... integrating HIIT next week.
Check-out my sig if you want to keep me honest or see how I'm progressing.
< Message edited by XtremeSki2001 -- 2/5/2007 11:00:14 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 11:05:30 AM
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danmirage
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You are thinking about a loss of 26 pounds?
But wait..what is your bodyfat% now?
Lets say 15% BF
226 total weight
192 Lean Mass
34 pounds fat mass
in this example 200 is a loss of muscle and fat..and not an ideal goal!
Lets say 20% BF
226 total weight
180 Lean Mass
46 pounds fat mass
In this example..226 at 15% would be a great long term goal, gaining 22 pounds of muscle and losing 12 pounds of fat...
The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat. Gain muscle, lose more fat.
My point is you MUST be careful to set a completely reasonable goal!!!
This is why many people fail...They set the wrong type of goal.
Many people want to lose weight.
IF the goal was to lose muscle and water weight and gain it back again in the form of fat..then they were a success...I am sure you don't want that.
Your goal should be to gain muscle and then lose undesired fat.
Irrespective of your total weight!
Once you get the right mindset of lose fat / gain muscle..then you can focus on a proper weight goal.
< Message edited by danmirage -- 2/13/2007 7:30:45 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 11:22:14 AM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
You are thinking about a loss of 26 pounds?
But wait..what is your bodyfat% now?
Lets say 15% BF
226 total weight
202 Lean Mass
34 pounds fat mass
in this example 200 is a loss of muscle and fat..and not an ideal goal!
Lets say 20% BF
226 total weight
180 Lean Mass
46 pounds fat mass
In this example..226 at 15% would be a great long term goal, gaining 22 pounds of muscle and losing 12 pounds of fat...
The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat. Gain muscle, lose more fat.
My point is you MUST be careful to set a completely reasonable goal!!!
This is why many people fail...They set the wrong type of goal.
Many people want to lose weight.
IF the goal was to lose muscle and water weight and gain it back again in the form of fat..then they were a success...I am sure you don't want that.
Your goal should be to gain muscle and then lose undesired fat.
Irrespective of your total weight!
Once you get the right mindset of lose fat / gain muscle..then you can focus on a proper weight goal.
Good point.
I've been lifting since I was 17-18 and I'm now 23. I've only had a month or two over all those years where I completely stopped.
For the most part, I've been in "maintenance" this whole time ... but I never ate right and I never did cardio and I've been slacking over the last 6 months. Gradually I've seen an increase in fat, especially since I moved out of my parents house.
This being said, I still lift the same weight as I've always done, but I'm fatter. 20% sounds about right ... although the BF% at the gym (the handheld device) said something in the 21%-25% range.
quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
Lets say 20% BF
226 total weight
180 Lean Mass
46 pounds fat mass
I think your assumption here is spot-on. I'm very content with my muscle size, but the fat on top is my issue ... especially in the back/pectoral area.
If I could get down to 10% BF that would be great, but I think what you're saying is set my goal to 15% and once I get there, increase my goal to 10% BF?
This is my goal:
Current: 226lbs, 20% BF (46lbs of fat and 180 lean mass)
Goal: 213lbs, 15% BF (33lbs of fat and 180 lean mass)
Extended Goal: 203lbs, 10%BF (23lbs of fat and 180 lean mass)
Do you think it's realistic that I could get to my extended goal in six months?
edit: I decided to get Kirkland's http://www.amazon.com/Kirkland-Signature-Mature-Adults-Tablets/dp/B000KF8OIA/sr=8-1/qid=1170704759/ref=sr_1_1/102-2155763-3467343?ie=UTF8&s=hpc multi-vitamin ... OptimumHealth recommended them. Lastly, should I take any BCAA's on my off days? I figured on my "carb only" day (Tues/Wed/Sat) I'd take BCAA's just like I would on my lifting days.
< Message edited by XtremeSki2001 -- 2/5/2007 11:48:29 AM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 12:59:30 PM
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danmirage
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BCAA are for sparing muscle when you train.
Pre / during / post training
quote:
I figured on my "carb only" day
What is a carb only day?
quote:
Do you think it's realistic that I could get to my extended goal in six months?
Atually, no..you have to increase muscle if you want to do this without a net loss of muscle.
The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat. Gain muscle, lose more fat.
quote:
I think what you're saying is set my goal to 15% and once I get there, increase my goal to 10% BF?
Yes, but gain muscle first, then lose fat, gain muscle, lose fat....
Muscle Is metabolism.
10 pounds of muscle will burn enough calories in a week to lose 1 pound a week doing nothing but training easily!
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http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 1:25:35 PM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
BCAA are for sparing muscle when you train.
Pre / during / post training
quote:
I figured on my "carb only" day
What is a carb only day?
Opps ... I meant a "cardio only" day ... see what you've done to me, everything is fat, protein, and carbs haha! What I meant to say is I probably SHOULD take BCAA (pre/post cardio) when I'm JUST doing cardio.
quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
quote:
Do you think it's realistic that I could get to my extended goal in six months?
Atually, no..you have to increase muscle if you want to do this without a net loss of muscle.
The ideal is to gain muscle first, then lose fat. Gain muscle, lose more fat. .
I know this will sound silly, but what if I don't want more muscle? I guess I could train so that my muscles become more dense rather then larger?
I'd imagine using the HST program and following it closely I will be building muscle at the same time I'm losing fat.
quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
quote:
I think what you're saying is set my goal to 15% and once I get there, increase my goal to 10% BF?
Yes, but gain muscle first, then lose fat, gain muscle, lose fat....
With the diet you helped me build and the HST program .... wouldn't this do both at the same time?
< Message edited by XtremeSki2001 -- 2/5/2007 1:27:15 PM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 1:31:48 PM
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danmirage
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quote:
Opps ... I meant a "cardio only" day ... see what you've done to me, everything is fat, protein, and carbs haha! What I meant to say is I probably SHOULD take BCAA (pre/post cardio) when I'm JUST doing cardio.
Yes!
quote:
I know this will sound silly, but what if I don't want more muscle? Is there a way one can decrease Lean Mass? Don't worry though, if I need to, I'll just have to build more muscle to get past the 15% BF goal.
I'd imagine using the HST program and following it closesly I will be building muscle at the same time I'm losing fat.
Unless you are VERY good and very patient, thne you will likely lose some muscle over the period of fat loss...when you lose muscle you lower th metabolism!
SO, if you gain muscle first, thn when you cut it is much easier!
YOU can do it without gaining first...but you must put th body in the balanced hormonal state to optimaize muscle preservation and lose fat.
In the end, it is always best to cycle training. Gain muscle, lose fat, maintain, gain, lose....
quote:
With the diet you helped me build and the HST program .... wouldn't this do both at the same time?
Perhaps, if you have everything dialed in.
That is how the body works. But people tend to stagnate and not respond to the needed changes to maintain gains/losses...
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http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 1:40:57 PM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
That is how the body works. But people tend to stagnate and not respond to the needed changes to maintain gains/losses...
Thanks for all your help, AGAIN! You seem to have a great deal of patience ... that being said, let me know what you think of this.
I'll do the meal plan that we suggested and HIIT and the HST program for 2-4 weeks and we'll see what's happening and make adjustments at that time ... seem reasonable?
Also, if I can ever provide help to you, please be sure to let me know. My skills are primarily in computing.
< Message edited by XtremeSki2001 -- 2/5/2007 1:50:57 PM >
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 6:07:44 PM
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saternal
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Ok Dan Sry about the GI **** i got steered off for a while. I understand what u say now unless their eaten by themselves.
Btw Dan is there anything else i can do that will cause my mid-section to "get tighter". Its kind of , you can say "watery" now flabby and stuff. Quite irritating when you look in the mirror and everything else is small then theres this flab hanging out that gives a smile to my stomach.
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 6:23:41 PM
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XtremeSki2001
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saternal
Ok Dan Sry about the GI **** i got steered off for a while. I understand what u say now unless their eaten by themselves.
Btw Dan is there anything else i can do that will cause my mid-section to "get tighter". Its kind of , you can say "watery" now flabby and stuff. Quite irritating when you look in the mirror and everything else is small then theres this flab hanging out that gives a smile to my stomach.
Hey man ... I'd rather have it in my stomach ... I have it all in my tits ... imagine my tits are as big as my g/f's no lie
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RE: Help - 2/5/2007 6:59:42 PM
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danmirage
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Everyone has a different place that they genetically store fat in the tough moments...
You can not spot reduce fat.
You do spot store fat - in those places..kinda irritating!
You can spot store muscle.
The way to get rid of that fat is to store more muscle.
Muscle is what gives us the nice form and figure we like.
Muscle is also metaboliclly active tissue...meaning it burns calories...It is THE site in the body where calories are burned. More muscle means more metabolism...
Then you follow the basic rules as in my threads...those rules are designed to favor muscle storage and fat burning.
Water, sleep, multivitamin, no stress, etc...
After you get the basics in place and go a few weeks gaining muscle and having a good time feeling better and getting better every week...then there are gradual tweeks that will keep it going the way you want.
Once you learn the pattern..you know it for life!
You can do it at 20 or 40 or 60 or 80 and get the same results!
quote:
I'll do the meal plan that we suggested and HIIT and the HST program for 2-4 weeks and we'll see what's happening and make adjustments at that time ... seem reasonable?
Also, if I can ever provide help to you, please be sure to let me know. My skills are primarily in computing.
First, I see you started a thread, so I will follow you there.
Post your diet and training (weekly plan and daily "finished"), plus your 12 week overview kind of plan...just a general overview to keep you focused.
My first thought is to make sure you have had a week off from training. Second is to wait on the HIIT for at least 4 weeks.
You want to get each part going gradually and observe its effects so you can make informed changes!!!
Lastly, Get calipers and take measures as per the recommendation in my thread!
This is one powerful tool!!!
Calipers
I explain how to modulate the diet/training continuoum based on those measurements.
It will also be a "real" tangible way to track success.
As for what you do, why not tell me or PM me a little about what it is you do with computers. I volunteer my time here as I am able, but if at some time you are able to help me with something, that would be a wonderful thing..that would give me more time to give to others! 
Either way, I deeply appreciate you recognizing and validating the value I deliver.
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http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
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RE: Help - 2/6/2007 2:09:42 AM
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saternal
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Hey Dan one thing about my workout plan for tomorrow (Wednesday) should i try to workout muscles similar to the ones i did on monday? for example i did quads on monday so should i try doing quads tomorrow?
And should i incorporate that HIIT Cycle into my warm-up cardios?
< Message edited by saternal -- 2/6/2007 2:18:52 AM >
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Help - 2/6/2007 6:09:58 AM
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XtremeSki2001
Posts: 870
Joined: 1/16/2007
From: Philly, PA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saternal
And should i incorporate that HIIT Cycle into my warm-up cardios?
No, HIIT and your warm-up should be done seperate. You should do HIIT after your workout ... a warm-up should be exactly that .... 5-10 mins of light jogging/biking/eliptical
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(in reply to saternal)
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