RE: Superskinnyman posts again
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/24/2007 4:05:36 PM
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danmac75
Posts: 267
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From: Beantown
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Would you say, cursor, that you should eat less carbs on your rest day? I will be able to find out for myself what my body needs once I start measuring my results and such, but what do you do? I remember you writing about taking your daily calorie requirements, and multiplying them by 7 to get a weekly calorie expenditure. Then, dividing up those calories to coordinate with what you're doing on any given day. Since you recommended a decrease in calories on off days, would you reccommend cutting those calories from carbohydrates like rice, oatmeal, and quinoa?
(in reply to cursor)
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 2:18:57 AM
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MrBafner
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/9/2006
From: Brisbane, Australia
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Carbohydrates are fuel, energy... not mass. Muscle tissue is not related to carbohydrates at all... and muscle mass is not related to the energy that you exert (well not for mass building).
The kid is not wanting a marathon, triathlon or swim 50klms for breakfast.. he is wanting to gain mass, muscle mass. I assume he is a skinny little bugger.
If he consumed 50k calories a day on carbohydrates and being a noobie, I'd love to see his muscle to fat ratio.
(in reply to cursor)
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 5:57:12 AM
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cursor
Posts: 385
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quote:
MrBafner :: Carbohydrates are fuel, energy... not mass. Muscle tissue is not related to carbohydrates at all... and muscle mass is not related to the energy that you exert (well not for mass building). Of course carbs are not "mass" (lean body mass?). You can, of course, say the same of dietary protien and dietary fat. They are dietary macronutrients/fuel that is processed by the body. If the dietary intake is right, and the exertion level proper, then lean tissue will be added (as the old is naturally discarded).
quote:
MrBafner :: If he consumed 50k calories a day on carbohydrates and being a noobie, I'd love to see his muscle to fat ratio. My guess is that as a beginner, 5000 calories a day (regardless of macronutrient form) is out of line and will result in accumulated body fat.
Recognition of the balanced value gained by eating the right amounts of 1) proteins, 2) carbohydrates, and 3) fats (combined with dietary fiber and water), will lead you to your end goal of health & fitness faster than any more myopic perspective.
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quote:
danmac :: Would you say, cursor, that you should eat less carbs on your rest day?
Yes, that would make sense to me. Ask yourself how your body processes any particular food (or combination of foods), then choose foods based on your body's current ready-state.
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(in reply to MrBafner)
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 6:40:01 AM
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danmac75
Posts: 267
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From: Beantown
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So you're saying that carbohydrates do not fuel your anaerobic workouts at all?
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 9:00:45 AM
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cursor
Posts: 385
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Are you asking me, danmac75? I previously posted this:
quote:
cursor :: Carbohydrates represent a quality fuel that is burned (following nutrient processing by one's body, of course) during exercise (resistance training or cardiovasular activity). That exerted effort builds lean tissue.
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"Push your limits — define aggressive goals"
_________.P R O G R E S S___P I C S
(in reply to danmac75)
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 9:59:16 AM
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danmac75
Posts: 267
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Beantown
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No I was asking Bafner. For some reason I didn't see your post when I went to write my response. That happens sometimes on here.
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 10:07:38 AM
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danmac75
Posts: 267
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: Beantown
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Also, cursor, I'll definitely look into eating less carbs on rest days. I really like your previous suggestion on a different post about calculating your weekly calories and eating more on workout days and less on rest days, and I'll definitely consider trying that. Once I start measuring my body fat, I'll no doubt need to adjust my diet, so if I find I'm gaining more fat than muscle, I'll probably cut carbs down a little on off days, and add calories on workout days.
As to whether carbs are related to muscle gains, it's pretty clear to me. For me, I know, complex carbs give me a lot of energy. Not only do carbs play an important role for me in fueling my workouts and allowing me to lift heavier weight, or just workout better all around, but for everyone glycogen is burned lifting weights. It's simply the only energy your muscles use, wheras with light cardio your body can use glycogen then switch to burning fat once glycogen is gone. From what I understand, your muscles will essentially break themselves down to create more glycogen. Carbs are a must, and this is the first time I've heard it any other way. However, to be fair to MrBafner, there are exceptions to every rule and maybe some people are simply more responsive to high protein/low carb nutrition.
However, how does it make sense to reccommend that to a beginner? Everyone needs to find the right amount of nutrients for themselves, so starting out at one extreme end of the spectrum is not a good idea. The most logical way to start your nutrition as a beginner, no matter what your goal is, is to start somewhere in the middle with a good balance of nutrients and to adjust by looking at your weekly BF% measurements, muscle measurements, and judging how certain nutrients make you feel.
(in reply to cursor)
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 10:47:59 AM
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cursor
Posts: 385
Joined: 1/20/2007
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Another important point to keep in mind is that carbohydrates (depending on the quality of choice) can offer nutrients for general good health (beyond simple fuel for activity) that other macronutrient forms cannot. Fresh fruit & vegetables and whole grains have potential to play a large role in longevity -- not to mention taste. Whoops ... I guess I just mentioned it.
_____________________________
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"Push your limits — define aggressive goals"
_________.P R O G R E S S___P I C S
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RE: Superskinnyman posts again - 1/25/2007 1:38:15 PM
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MrBafner
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/9/2006
From: Brisbane, Australia
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No, if your eating a high protein diet your probably getting enough carbohydrates, and nutrients to cover more than your workload.
If your a skinny guy, superskinnyman, then you have veins, bones, ribs, etc showing and not a great deal of body fat. Sure, carbs will convert into fat, but not on your metabolism level.
From what you just said and your energy levels are depleted and you feel the need to recharge by eating heaps of carbohydrates, then its obvious your not resting enough. You probably drink far too much caffiene, have too many stimulants in your diets, and your energy is probably being spent or stored in other factors.
There is absolutely nothing new about the high protein diets, and nothing new about people deleting carbs from their diets.
Before you start debating the idea of carbs / protein / fats you need to start thinking short or long term.
An example.. short term, drink alkaseltza (I think it is) and lots of fluids and you will swell up like a balloon. But it won't last, will be gone in a week, the water retention will deplete and your hard work gone.
Carbohydrates are simliar.. you can store them or not store them in fat form. Now that depends upon you and your diet, how many meals per day to your ernergy output. Heck a muesli bar may be enough to give you enough energy, but its not going to build mass.
Are you wanting to put on muscle mass or just throw weights around and look like your doing something?
You have to start asking yourself questions, why are you training? why are you drinking 13 cups of coffee a day or maybe another caffiene source (tea, coke, chocolate, etc)? why is your energy being depleted?
Most people turn to protein diets to lose body fat and maintain muscle mass. You on the other hand don't have either, but need to grow your muscle mass and that is protein... protein... protein, muscle mass is protein. Carbohydrates will not build muscle mass.
At your level of training, rest will provide enough energy.
(in reply to cursor)
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