Havoc/Epistane PCT

Topic says it. What kind of PCT would you rec for a cycle on Havoc? Just got my bottle in. I wont begin until mid-January(I'm going to log the results), but wanted to get everything I need in advance. I've been reading a lot recently about the product over on the bb forums and understand a PCT is necessary.

2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

Would simply Novedex XT by gaspari work or should I go a bit more heavy. Don't really have access to Nolva and not willing to spend the bucks, what other products should I also be looking into. Clomid/Tam/Liver longer?

22 - 6'4 - 195
Hook 'em
Halodrol Liquid Gel/Activate log started Dec. 6

ORIGINAL: ianthegreat
Clomid/Tam/Liver longer?

if by tam u mean tamoxifen, then that is nolva. novedex XT will not be sufficient. IMO nolva is an essential for pct get clomid also if u can afford.

215 lbs
5'10''

I've heard conflicting opinions about clomid. Although I'll give it a try. Thanks for the clarification on tamoxifen. Is nolva available openly? For some reason I thought it was banned/prescribed or something... I could be completely wrong, I'll study into this more tom.

22 - 6'4 - 195
Hook 'em
Halodrol Liquid Gel/Activate log started Dec. 6

nah im pretty sure its illegal, but its still widely available, some people become drousy, blurred vision, and alot of other unwanted sides from clomid if u dont want to try it nolva will do, but to combine them both would be a little better, alot of people dont bother with clomid at all.

215 lbs
5'10''

no need for clomid...stick to nolva. 40/40/20/20 or 40/30/20/10 depending on how bad you shut down.

"poena est vires in dissimulo"

Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"

Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%

Takes alot more mg in clomid then nolva.. I agree stick to nolva..  Clomid i hear can make you go blind although they have no proven that yet.   Personally i take what ever the hell is in my dresser.  I ran out of nolva taking clomid ill have nolva in a bit.  sometimes throw in some HCG and get a real boost in the natural test levels, but just like steroids and pro hormones the natural test levels reduce again. 

ORIGINAL: VaughnTrue

no need for clomid...stick to nolva. 40/40/20/20 or 40/30/20/10 depending on how bad you shut down.

lol, vaughn i was waiting for you to come and scream at me saying ''nolva is not enough!'' etc.

215 lbs
5'10''

lol...until you start hitting longer/deeper cycles, usually involving aas, nolva + some ai + liver protectants is really all you need. and the nolva MIGHT not be neccessary depending on how bad you shut down.

"poena est vires in dissimulo"

Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"

Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%

What do you think about a liver protectant? Needed or not? I'll probably find some nolva somewhere now, seems to be the staple of a PCT, based on everyones opinions.

22 - 6'4 - 195
Hook 'em
Halodrol Liquid Gel/Activate log started Dec. 6

yeah man, nolva is really an essential for any PCT, and IMO liver protectants arent necessary unless your running a rediculously long oral cycle which is just plain steroid abuse. but thats the same with anything the liver will take a beating from any drug (painkillers, etc.) digested for a long period of time.

215 lbs
5'10''

This is a legit methlyated steroid, so if you run it for more then 2 weeks, yes I think liver protectants as well as an AI and a SERM are in order post cycle.  And I wouldn't run it for more then a month.

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yea without a doubt, 4weeks MAX. you should be taking milkthistle for at least 2-3 weeks before hand also, and have some of thermolifes liverlonger on hand

"poena est vires in dissimulo"

Start
Height : 6'
Weight : 258lbs
Waist : 38"
Bicep : 16"
Neck : 20"

Now
Height : 6'
Weight : 200
Waist : 32"
Bicep : 17.25
Neck : 19"
BF% - 7.4%

Actually you guys would be surprised.  Epistane, is actually very mild when it comes to shutdown.  It acts as a 17b-estradiol receptor antagonist, despite being 1100% more anabolic as methyl-test.  It does exhibit androgenic effects, which makes it even stranger that it holds both properties, but due to this trait, it keeps shutdown much lower than M1T or Superdrol. 

Not only that it has been shown to reduce gyno even with dosages as high as 30mg (possibly higher).  I do recommend Nolvadex or Toremifene for a PCT, however, a full PCT might not be necessary if this is run by itself.  Everyone is different, however.

Bump to that, but 1100% more anabolic than methyl-test?
 
The methylated "Havoc" PH is somewhat similar to that of Superdrol. It is however, a clone to Epistane. Both Havoc and Epistane have similar compounds but differ in that Havoc is 2a,3a,-Epithio-17a-methyl-5a-andrstan-17b-ol and Epistane has 2a,3a,Epithio-17a-methyl-17B-hydroxy-5a-androstan. Relatively new to the market but, sound promising.
 
IMO a good PCT similar to a Superdrol PCT would be adequate. There are other alternatives to Nolva and Clomid. Just my 2 cents.
 

 

Bro, please don't try to speak organic chemistry to me, it is practically my field of study.

Trust me the compounds are IDENTICAL.  There are many differerent ways to name a compound.  In this case the difference you are seeing is 17b-ol, compared to 17b-hydroxy.  If you look at the definition of hydroxy, you will see that it is an -OH group, which defines an alcohol, 17b-ol, also refers to alcahOL, hence the OL at the end.

And yes, a study conducted by a reputable scientific journal, years back found that it was 1100% more anabolic than methyl-test.  Even Anavar is ~500% more anabolic.