Awesome Muscle Building Topic #17 Creatine

My Intro:

I have listened to Daniel Gastelu's (Ph.D., trainer, researcher, author) Seminar series on Developing Awesome Muscles and I believe there is a good deal of information of value in there for bodybuilders, powerlifters, physique athletes and even those looking to just get ripped. 

These are free to stream or download and packed with information.  They range in time from as little as 15 minutes to as much as an hour...on average being 30 minutes.  (I will show you how to cut 33% of the time off if your time is precious.)  There are no ads and no fluff.

I want to know if anyone would be interested in listening to the segments Daniel has presented, one at a time and discussing them...I will answer any questions anyone has about the content.  I am corresponding and will be talking with Daniel and if there is anything anyone wants to know more about, I am sure I can get him to cover it.

There are 22 topics from supplementation and nutrition for fat loss and muscle gains to some specific methods and techniques for maximal performance and development.

I will highlight the key points as I see them and try to clarify anything that I feel is presented in a complicated fashion.

Everyone else is free to do the same as well as discuss the points, ask questions, debate, and together work out practical scenarios for applying these things to our training to get the most of the cutting edge science that is presented.

P.S.  Daniel builds on ideas as he goes through the series and I feel that listening in order is very helpful in getting some of the insights he sharing.
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Here is the Seventeenth audio in the series.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/creatinepodcast.htm
April 2006 
36 minutes


Highlights:
Dr. Hatfield interview preview
Meal Replacements are a food not really a supplement
Protein powders are NOT a meal replacement..you need the nutrients
Creatine Monohydrate benefits from research
No research for CEE Creatine Ethyl Ester
Loading, lower dosages, absence of side effects in pure Creatine Monohydrate
Creatine has a controlling mechanism over protein synthesis!
Liquid Creatine not stable.
Ginko Biloba and its benefits
Buffered creatine...has no clinical evidence or proven efficacy. 
Creatine Alkaline is Buffered with sodium ash which can cause gastrointestinal problems
CEE and buffered Creatine are nothing magic
The more muscle you build the more effective creatine is for you
Use a pure, high quality creatine
Observe the results in a journal...


If you want to talk about anything you hear...post a comment in this tread!
Remember this is a moderated forum so comments may not immediately appear.

There are 22 topics in this series and I will put the links to them in here later...

My Journal Gain Muscle - http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/fb.ashx?m=111173 Lose Fat - http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/fb.ashx?m=111175

What do you think of this research grade creatine Dan??  I've searched for it on the net and can only find one site that actually sells the RG-creatine monohydrate...http://www.trulyhuge.com/rgcreatine.htm

I understand that there a tons of companies out there that are producing/selling creatine...some of which aren't producing pure creatine.  Marc David has posted things about the purity of creatine on his creatine website.

I will ask Dan for clarity.

However research grade simply has to meet higher standards and narrower measures..so researchers in various Labs can compare results based upon a consistent product.

There are two general market grades:
Pharmaceutical and supplement
 
Research grade must adhere to a more consistent measure and is therefor.."better" quality.

Part of the discussion of impure product really refers to the concoctions created by the manufacturers as witnessed on their labels.
--> All the colorings, flavorings and "special" additives that supposedly contribute to Creatine's uptake, etc...for which there is generally contradictory or no science. 

Plus the "proprietary blend" garbage can hide insufficiently low dosages!
Anyone can reference what the effective dose should be so hiding the amount on a product label just insults the consumer!

Look for Pure creatine monohydrate (even if in a concoction, it should be listed as such with the proper dose.)

As long as the company has independently tested the product to verify that it meets the applicable standards, it should be fine.

If someone had the money and wanted only th best, I would say..why not.

Is it necessary? NO.

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i didn't want to start another creatine thread for this so I'm just gonna post it here, but don't worry, this isn't the same old "will creatine help me" question.

I know that creatine is made up of arginine, glycine, and methionine, all of which are amino acids.  so does that mean that creatine is a protein?  i always hate when people think that just because they both end with an "een" sound that they are somehow related, but now I'm not sure. 

17 yrs 5'7'' 184 lbs
Estimated maxes:
Bench - 245x1
Deadlift - 350x1
Squat - 300x1

The answer to that is very technical and based in organic chemistry.

What are you trying to determine?

It is not one of the essential amino acids nor a non essential amino acid.

It is, I believe, technically a nitrogenous organic acid.

Because something is made up from the peptids that also make up amino acids, it is not itself an amino acid.  Saying more than that gets into a complicated discussion about what, exactly, a protein is, etc.

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Dan:
 
I've heard mixed responses, maybe you can help.  How important is cycling creatine?  Is it detremental to use for months without cycling?
 
Regards

There is creatine in the foods you eat....so cycling it would be tough.
 
Also, It would take as much as 6 weeks to allow the body to return to pre-supplement levels of Cp...so off cycles would have to be quite long.
 
There is no evidence that there is any benefit to cycling it.  The body does not appear to adapt to intake and gradually lower the setpoint of stored Cp.
 
Though there is a faster build up of creatine in the system from loading, loading is not essential and the benefit of loading is very short term...and oftern accompanied by intestinal distress.
 
There is evedence that long term use at 3-5 grams per day maintains an elevated level of CP in the body and this has so many benefits it makes one dizzy to contemplate.
 
There are no know negative side effects.

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Thanks!

The ONLY thing that makes no sense except in a marketing way is the use of "research grade" creatine.

What the heck is that?

I want USP certified.

Why?  Because there's some standards when you get USP verification.

The use of "research grade" just plays on the mind of the customer that somehow THAT creatine is better.  In fact, the only people using that term are companies (supplement) selling creatine. 

Red Flag --> I smell a made up term that's not legitimate in the industry.

Now if that creatine (product or used in a product) is tested, verified by an independent lab?  That's a damn good start.

Marc C. David
Support DB! Buy your supplements at Supplements101.com

how do you know if a creatine is usp cerifiied?

Look at this page.
This is the logo that will be on the supplement.
 
http://www.usp.org/USPVerified/dietarySupplements/

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"Research grade" is for researchers.
 
It simply meets a certain standard so researchers in different parts of the world can do parallel research and verify efficacy using a product with the same guaranteed properties.

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i want to start taking creatine monohydrate next week and have heard many times to get a pure creatine monohydrate.

does this look like a good one to buy? http://www.buildingbrawn.com/index.php?Search=creatine+monohydrate+&PageNo=2&ProductID=2210
it's very cheap and i havent heard of the maker before but it says its 100% pure creatine monohydrate. it also says pharmaceutical grade which i think Dan gastelu mentioned something about but i cant remember exactly what.

also..5g a day right?

If you want to get a baseline for what is happeining, and you have not used CM in 6 weeks, you might wiat until you start to be in control of the trends through diet and training.
 
Otherwise the fluctuations from CM will confuse you for 6 weeks.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

If you want to get a baseline for what is happeining, and you have not used CM in 6 weeks, you might wiat until you start to be in control of the trends through diet and training.

Otherwise the fluctuations from CM will confuse you for 6 weeks.

ok that makes sense. for when i do buy it though would the kind i posted be okay?    
 other than that i keep seeing all this "micronized creatine" when i search for CM but that one was cheaper anyway.