weight gaining issues for an ectormorph
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weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 8:01:18 AM
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juxtrkov
Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2006
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hey guys, as u can tell from the title i am an ectomorph, am 5'7 and 112 pounds, its ok to gasp now, i'm used to that kind of reaction whenever i announce my weight, haha!
looking to eventually put on a LOAD of lean mass, put some inches to my arms, and increase my chest size. and also broader shoulders.
i am planning to commit to a massive mass gaining program, and thats where i need your help.
basically i've done my research, mostly reading articles from bodybuilding.com on my body type (the damn skinny people), but i still need some confirmation from some of you here.
to spark off this program, i went to my nutrition store and got myself 2 tubs of weight gainers, if u could take some time off and review it, its right here : http://www.gnc.com/sm-gnc-pro-performance-weight-gainer-2200-gold-chocolate--pi-2133631.html (click on product info tab to see nutrition content)
i know for an ectomorph, i gotta EAT BIG, lift big and get enough sleep, that is why i thought weight gainers would be a good investment. this is what i plan to eat in a day :
1 serving of mass gainer (2200 cal)
my 3-5 meals
lots of snacks and nutrition bars (so that my body is constantly digesting something)
i figured the total amount of calories would come to about 3500 <-- thats the minimum.
i got some questions regarding the weight gainer i just bought. the instructions for preparing is :
Mix 3 rounded scoops to 24 fl. oz. of cold water or 2% reduced-fat milk. Blend throughly until dissolved
if i do so, am i suppose to consume the whole serving (2200 cal) at ONE GO? or would it be better to take 1 scoop at a time, 3 times a day?
next, my training schedule, i plan to go to the gym 3 times a week, doing low reps, low sets and high weights (which is the most advisable for people of my build). it made sense to me that the serving of weight gainer would be fully utilised on a day that i work out. what about the rest of the days where i don't do weights, will the serving go to waste? (considering that i intend to consume the mass gainer everyday regardless of whether i do weights)
basically i jog quite often. but i read that for people who are looking to put on some weight, jogging should be kept to a minimum. because that combined with my fast metabolism rate burns the fats that i need too rapidly. what are you views on this?
also i do light jogging before every weights session to 'warm up', but i make sure that i get enough rest so that i am at my peak while lifting. is the jogging part necessary? or what are some other ways to warm up?
hope to hear from you guys soon, till then take care!! massive mass gaining starts in 4 days time ;)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 10:01:23 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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first let me say that i'm an ectomorph also, and this is from my experience
first things first measure your bodyfat% fat dosen't go into the amount of food you need to consume.
Then next thing is results take time and dedication.
You need a goal just saying looking biggers not it, how much lean body mass are you looking to gain?
You should be eating 4-5 meals + a post workout shake, the weight gainer shake counts as a meal
Now the weight gainer i would take the weight gainer once a day, and one scoop a day thats all you need if your getting 4 other meals but if your in a rush then you can take it more then once.
and cut the jogging if it's not being used to warm up
also how did you come to the conclusion that you need 3500 cals at the minimum?
you should see gains in you weights at 2700 cals. even at 7% bodyfat
the low reps low sets are better for incresing strength, why don't you try 8-12 reps with 3 set useing weights that allows you to have good form, weights wont do much if yours stoping half way through.
the weight gainer isn't going to waist on your non-workout days since your body rebuilds after you workout and takes about 4-7 days to fully rebuild a perticular muscle group.
and it would be wise to invest some money in some Whey protine and take it post workout
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 11:55:23 AM
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juxtrkov
Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2006
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nah i didn't conclude that i needed 3500 cals, in fact u're right, i only need 2787 of cals if i followed the calculation method discuss in another part of this forum. what i meant was, if i followed the instructions behind and took 1 serving per day, it would amount to over 3500 cals including the other stuffs that i eat during the day.. would the extra calories do any harm? or rather would it even help? if it doesn't then i'll just consume enough so that my powder can last longer :D
i've read more articles than i can count, and all of em recommend High Intensity Training (HIT) for big/fast gains and i must say i'm pretty convinced.. its not about 'stopping halfway through', more of pushing yourself to failure. years back when i first got my own dumbells, i did 2 sets of 12 biceps curl (1st set 12, 2nd set to failure) and for months i couldn't see results. if HIT doesn't work for me i'll try what u suggested ;)
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 11:55:34 AM
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Angel
Posts: 186
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From: Chicago
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Keep the jogging to a minimum and do some starting set before every workout.
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 12:18:20 PM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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quote:
i did 2 sets of 12 biceps curl (1st set 12, 2nd set to failure)
The bicept is a very small muscle group and if you weren't training your back chest, and most importantly legs, you won't see real gains.
quote:
i've read more articles than i can count, and all of em recommend High Intensity Training (HIT) for big/fast gains and i must say i'm pretty convinced..
almost every type of workout will give you results as long as you keep at it, you should be fine with that form of a workout, but i would try and change the excercises you do every 2 weeks or so since your body adapts. for example if you've been doing tricep pull down for a few weeks do tricep kickbacks
quote:
would the extra calories do any harm? or rather would it even help? if it doesn't then i'll just consume enough so that my powder can last longer
well the extra cals, could lead to fat stroage or could just flush out of your system. eat your your target cals for how much you need to gain weight. and you don't need 3 scoops a day thats just overkill. Those weight gainers put a real hole in your wallet, so i wouldn't waist it.
quote:
lots of snacks and nutrition bars (so that my body is constantly digesting something)
this really isn't needed if your getting your cals throug your meals then the snacks are just a wasit of money. it it takes an hour+ for your body to digest something so you should be good if you eat something every hour and a 1/2 to 30 but not more then three hours. also if you'r having trouble counting your cals protein and stuff in meals go to www.fitday.com, it saved my life .
< Message edited by sied1922 -- 8/26/2006 12:19:45 PM >
(in reply to Angel)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 12:19:50 PM
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twistedlink
Posts: 8339
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Bah if i took in what i "needed" id still be 147lbs
Im on 4600-5000 cals a day and its taken me 10 weeks nearly just to gain 8-10lbs and im not someone who goes around pretending to lift, sure ive slacked 3 weeks, but they were all for illness reasons.
sied has most of it right, however i shall say one thing which is a big no no which he said - unless he didnt mean it like he worded it.
A weightgain shake is NOT a meal, you should NEVER substitute a meal for ANY supplement. Supplements are liquids and can be easier absorbed than solids, as a result having a meal of 1 shake is not really effective, ALWAYS have a shake WITH a meal-you'll get better results.
But everything else he said follow in general
Try for around 40% carbs, 35% protein and 25% fats
As a general rule eat 3-4 times your bodyweight in lbs(convert to grams)
so youre 112lbs, so have 448 grams of carbs, that includes supplements, crank it up to 5 if weightgain is too slow.
Protein should be 1.25-1.75x body weight in grams also
Meaning you should aim for about 175grams of protein every day.
This is actually quite easy, 2 tins of any fish=90 grams protein, 3 shakes a day= roughly 50-75grams of protein, and youre already there, and them tins and shakes are just tiny add ons for meals or between meals.
Just eat fish and meat like its your last day on earth.
and go for about 100 grams of fat-it gives plenty o' energy lol
As to your weightgainer
"Mix 3 rounded scoops to 24 fl. oz. of cold water or 2% reduced-fat milk. Blend throughly until dissolved "
only mix 1 ROUNDED SCOOP each individual drink, this will allow you to spread out the 2200 calories through 3 seperate times of the day.
TBH if youre getting 2200 of your 3500 calories from weightgainer-youve got a problem, i can crank up more than that difference of 1300 calories just in breakfast and pre and post workout top ups.
But hey youre smaller.
But still...
As to working til failure-yes, do it.
I spent a year on and off ****ing around with mediocre weights and while i felt worked i never broke much sweat, end your routine on the mentality of either "HELL YES i feel soo good, but so tired" or "my god im gonna collapse"
Work that body of yours until it screams stop.
Also strength is not 3 sets of 12, thats size
2-6 reps-strength
8-12 reps-size
12-15+ reps-endurance
You want to see big muscles or strength?
if you want size then i suggest 3-5 sets of 8-10 rep exercises, each exercise
so if you do 6 exercises one day (which you should be aiming for if not more) then that will be 30 sets max from it. More exercises-more sets, like i said, push yourself.
Sometimes when you first start gym you can lift a certain weight and keep to it, which is fair enough, however because your body has never really gone through such muscle tearing torture-your body can give out. So if your first few days at the gym end early-dont worry, just push it by that one more workout next time (if you failed to finish them all, if you did finish them all-brilliant, keep that going)
Also like sied said-get some protein powder, while you can get it from food and most weightgainers contains a lot, it is best to have a protein shake every now and then to keep your body topped up, like he said, your body spends 4-7 days fixing itself up, so take in plenty of protein, and overdose on the stuff right before you sleep-your body rests most during sleep.
Its also when us ectos loose weight most.
Jogging only do 5 mins of low speed to warm up-thats it.
_____________________________
Oh this is taking the piss now, seriously, give me my damn results.
(in reply to Angel)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 12:39:34 PM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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quote:
A weightgain shake is NOT a meal, you should NEVER substitute a meal for ANY supplement. Supplements are liquids and can be easier absorbed than solids, as a result having a meal of 1 shake is not really effective, ALWAYS have a shake WITH a meal-you'll get better results.
your 100% right infact i'm not using any gainer right now eather, i didn't mean he should be taking the weight gainer alone thank you for the correction, its best if your get some fibrous veggies along with your meals too.
but i still suggest he try and the amount of cals he came up with for a week and if he dosen't see gains raise em 500 cals.
quote:
Also strength is not 3 sets of 12, thats size
were you correcting me on that becasue i think thats what i said.
btw link in by no means did i think you went into the gym pretending to lift
< Message edited by sied1922 -- 8/26/2006 12:45:46 PM >
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/26/2006 11:41:20 PM
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juxtrkov
Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2006
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actually i don't really know how to calculate the calories of my meals, lets just say each of my meal is 500 - 800 cals average 
i'm hearing two things here, eat excess calories or my 'needed' (normal +20%) calories?
i shall try out 2 sets of 8-10 since both of u suggested the same thing. then again, how many exercises should i do per muscle group?
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 12:06:21 AM
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twistedlink
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knock that up to 3 sets of 8-10 when youre comfortable
Sied technically is more correct with the calories-i am saying you should have more, all im saying is, as a seriously prime good example of a ectomorph (I lose weight constantly even on 3000 calories a day-unless i lift) i personally from experience have found that the calorie calculator puts me in at around 2800 calories...I can tell you now...I lost nearly 15lbs in 4 months on 3000 calorie diet, so 2800 will get me nowhere
2-3 exercises per muscle group
_____________________________
Oh this is taking the piss now, seriously, give me my damn results.
(in reply to juxtrkov)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 5:14:15 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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quote:
Sied technically is more correct with the calories-i am saying you should have more, all im saying is, as a seriously prime good example of a ectomorph (I lose weight constantly even on 3000 calories a day-unless i lift) i personally from experience have found that the calorie calculator puts me in at around 2800 calories I lost nearly 15lbs in 4 months on 3000 calorie diet, so 2800 will get me nowhere
i really didn't use a cal calculator, i was not workning out for 3 months and i wasn't losing weight so i counted thoses cals and they were my mantance calories. you are right that the calorie calculator do not give a perfect estimation. i used the cal calculator and put me mor at 2450 cals but i have to be at 2700 to see weight gains.
quote:
I lost nearly 15lbs in 4 months on 3000 calorie diet, so 2800 will get me nowhere
well you must take in to accuont that your weight is considarbly higher then his, i think by the time he reaches your weight he will need the same amount of cals per day. i think that if he startes at the maximum amount per day then he'll never have the chance to see if the medium works.
ya you should deff bring that up to 3 sets, the intensity is much diffret if your doing 2 sets as apposed to three
one more thing DO NOT LIFT MORE WEIGHT THEN YOU CAN, theres no need for ego, your form will suffer and you won't see as good gains becasue of that.
< Message edited by sied1922 -- 8/27/2006 5:21:29 AM >
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 5:42:08 AM
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juxtrkov
Posts: 21
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hmm oh here's another question, when i do sets of 8-10 reps, am i suppose to train with weights that would only allow me to do no more than 10 reps (after mustering all my strength), or am i allowed to use weights that i can do over 10, but stopping at the 10th rep?
if ur refering to 'with weights that only allow me to do no more than 10 reps' , then i imagine that the 2nd and 3rd reps would be do-to-failure? cuz its unlikely that i'll be able to lift past the 7th rep.. if thats what y'all meant then i'll change it to 3 sets..
and what do u think of throwing egg whites into the blender together with my weight gainer? how much protein does egg whites provide?
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 5:54:33 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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one egg white from a large egg provids roughly 3-4 grams of protine. i'm not to sure about the egg whites in the weightgainer,i wouldn't do it becasue the gainer has protine and your supposed use that as a supplement to you meals
you should use weights that allow you to go to muscualr faliure aat 10 reps if thats your target, then you rest a minute and do it again, if the last set i find most of the time that people quite on a 7th or so rep becasue they lose motivation and think they can't do it, but if you've reached mucualr faliure at 7 reps thats fine.
btw muscular faliure ir reached when you are unable to preform an excersise with good form not when you can't lift your arm anymore.
(in reply to juxtrkov)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 5:56:34 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
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go to www.fitday.com register, its free and it will tell you exactly how much nutrition is in almost every food you can think of.
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 7:52:48 AM
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twistedlink
Posts: 8339
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1st set 10th rep-feel a nice burn, but the ability to maybe push 12
2nd set 10th rep feels even more burn, maybe you could stretch out another 12, but more likely just one more
3rd set you want to be using all your strength on the 10th rep, to find a weight that does this is rare, and usually for only a few weeks until your strength changes, but if youre on your last set and last rep and you dont feel worked-up the weight.
sied, them 4 months was when i wasnt bodybuilding, so i lost 15lbs sitting on my ass doing nothing but eating 3000 cals a day, i dont have hyperthyroidism, and i stumped all doctors ive seen, i see little weightgain with a 4600-5000 calorie a day diet, and the docs either wont believe me, or just dismiss it through metabolism...I however personally think i was born with either a) two stomach, or b) a black hole in me LOL.
_____________________________
Oh this is taking the piss now, seriously, give me my damn results.
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 8:52:00 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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my real name is syed, yous should go into those eating contests like that chinese you'd be world champ. ya it's the same thing with me only not to the same extent as you. When ever i lower my cal by 200-300 cals i start leaning out like crazy. But i usually only lose fat. Last time i did this i lost 7 pounds of fat and .5 pounds of lean body mass
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 10:04:16 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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juxtrkov you seem to be very concerned with the the protein you take concidering that it is only 35% of your diet. have you given any thought to where your gona get the other 75%. you should post what you are planing to eat in one day. It dosen't have to be perfect just something so we can get an idea of what you need to add and take out.
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 10:20:50 AM
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juxtrkov
Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2006
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1 serving of weight gainer
1 litre of soya bean milk (that would be mixed with gainer) contains 40g of protein in itself
3-4 meals, the food varies, but i try to get at least 30 grams of protein in each of it.
snacks distributed throughout the day, bout 10g protein 600 cals
and fruits
feel free to comment or suggest ;)
(in reply to sied1922)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 10:47:52 AM
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sied1922
Posts: 211
Joined: 7/2/2006
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ok i have a ball park of how much protein you are getting a day. but you should be getting a certin amount of carbs and fats to balance that out. also don't think that protein is the only important thing, reacerch has shown that "good" fat increace the level of testosterone and reduce bodyfat as well as lowering muscle catabolism (that should be very important to us since our body type find it somewhat difficult to retain muscle mass).
quote:
snacks distributed throughout the day, bout 10g protein 600 cals
and fruits
cut the snacks out for now you should be getting enough nutrince with your meals.
also eating most fruit, and sugary snacks,(alone) alone will result in a sharp insuln spike with will cause your body to only use only glocuse as fuel and will not draw its fuel from fat stores, therefore compiling more fat stores.
quote:
1 serving of weight gainer
if you must drink the weight gainer i would recommend you take it with some fibrous veggis, and some almonds(i am giving you what you need at the very least, since school is comming up and you might not be able to carry around a whole meal with you.) do not take the Meal replacement as a meal it will never be as good as the real thing it's just a replacement.
did you go to fitday yet?
< Message edited by sied1922 -- 8/27/2006 11:14:22 AM >
(in reply to juxtrkov)
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RE: weight gaining issues for an ectormorph - 8/27/2006 7:50:38 PM
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juxtrkov
Posts: 21
Joined: 8/26/2006
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yup i've created an account there
oh and i failed to mention, i got a month of holiday starting today!! hehehe that is why i decided to commit right now..
also could you tell me what i can do about the 'good fat' thing? how to get it settled etc.. i'll definitely do some research on it, but after i come back from chalet in 2 days time (weds)..
< Message edited by juxtrkov -- 8/27/2006 7:59:39 PM >
(in reply to sied1922)
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