RE: Looking for mass...
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RE: Looking for mass... - 7/17/2007 5:49:36 AM
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Wyrms
Posts: 1458
Joined: 12/19/2006
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
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I've read most of this thread and I must say, it's been VERY educational! :)
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 7/17/2007 8:50:25 PM
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Wyrms
Posts: 1458
Joined: 12/19/2006
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: twistedlink
It is.
Repeat after me everyone
Dan is god
Dan is god
Dan is god
Dan is God, Dan is God. 
(in reply to twistedlink)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/19/2007 4:20:34 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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No scale to take stats with yet. Need to get one.
University closed. They are building a new fitness center, where I may be a trainer for a while.
The Workout:
Some done in supersets to shorten the duration.
10 exercises. 15-25 reps each. Not to failure. Minimal rest.
warm up
Squat w/u 50x20, 100x20
Squat 150x15
Squat 150x13
Bench 110x15
Bench 120x15
Pulldown 50x20, 100*15
Pulldown 110x8
Tri Pressdown 20*20
Military 50*20
Tri Pressdown 40*15
Military 60*15
Bi Curl 50*15
SLDL 50*20
Bi Curl 60*10
SLDL 60*15
Calf Raise 110*20
Weighted Crunch 50*20
Calf Raise 150*20
Weighted Crunch 50*20
Stretching & Cool Down
(all weight not including bar)
Creatine 5g 1 Tsp (post)
BCAA 5g = 1 Tsp (Mid)
L-Arganine 3g 1 Tsp (PRE-Bed)
L-Theonine (post)
< Message edited by danmirage -- 12/19/2007 7:12:05 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/23/2007 9:26:10 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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I am going to give some of the rationale for my choice of workout regimen again:
The key is to stimulate ongoing growth. This means keeping the body in a state where it has to continually adapt or as Daniel Gastelu more accurately says "acclimate"....and is supported in doing so.
Research has shown that changing your training each subsequent session for the same body part leads to more muscle growth than changing it every 4 weeks.
Focus on 80-100% compound (multi joint) movements and 0-20% isolation (single joint) movements.
Cycle the training (endurance, strength, hypertrophy) and vary the progressions in every cycle! This progression demonstrated greater muscle growth than it's reverse.
Proper form is king.
Start with the least amount of work to get the desired result...including both diet and training.
Accelerate the pace of concentric (lifting/pushing/pulling) portion of lifts in perfect form. Use control on eccentric portions (lowering) of movements. Feel full contractions at both isometric ends extended and flexed.
Do not train beyond the threshold of recovery and diminished returns ...instead train muscle with more intensity variations (Drop sets, supersets, etc).
You only need to challenge the body and muscle sufficient to bring about the desired adaptive response...then support recovery as completely as possible.
Because the body adapts quickly to stimuli, you need to vary the challenge to get the body to continue to respond with desirable adaptations.
Resting 2 or 5 minutes showed no change in results of strength training.
In hypertrophy training, shorter duration rests resulted in increased hypertrophy compared with longer rests.
In hypertrophy training high set volume (6) did not result in additional muscle growth or hormonal response over moderate set volume (4). Though additional muscle growth and hormonal response was higher in moderate set volume (4) than for low set volume (2).
Cardiovascular exercise results in a change in muscle building patterns that inhibits the optimal building of muscle. As the goal is optimal muscle growth, there will be no cardio.
The body adapts to protein intake, facilitating more waste as protein intake increases. Therefor I will start with a lower intake than normal and progress it. When lowering protein intake there is a loss of beneficial protein use as the body continues to waste high amounts of protein and lags in acclimation to lower intakes ...however this can be mitigated through protein timing and availability.
Supplementation refers to adding on to an already well defined nutrition and training program. If diet and exercise are not optimal, supplementation is wasted.
Leucine, a BCAA is known to be the protein synthesis catalyst in the body. BCAAs are also a source of muscle sparing energy.
Creatine's benefits are so well researched that I simply need to mention it will be used in it's pure form. The key being consistent use. Timing of dosage has not demonstrated that it is as important.
L-Arganine is an excellent antioxidant and increases cellular oxygenation in addition to it's mild vasodilation properties and supporting NO production.
Glucosamine and Chondroitin are precursors for tissue building and joint repair and will be used.
Additionally...every 10 pounds of muscle increases caloric needs 350 to 500 calories.
These are links to the supplements I use:
L-Arginine
4-6 grams pre bed
BCAA
.035 g per pound of bodyweight or 1/4 teaspoon per 35 pounds taken immediatly pre workout and again the same immediatly post workout
Creatine
1 hour pre workout 3-5 grams
Glutamine
Rarely but - 2 grams after severe workouts, pre bed if 2 hours after a meal
Fish Oil
2 teaspoons a day fills out my calories right now
or
Krill Oil
I switch between 3 MRPs for if/when when I need those or post workout
Now ProGainer - Chocolate..the vanilla is nasty- this is also the one that I make pudding with...
Champion Super Heavy Weight Gainer 1200
Now Lean Grow - for down days or as a quick meal replacement/boost with teeth but no carbs
B-50 complex
with the MRP to aid in using the carbs and daily to keep my b vitamins near optimal
C-500
various times for immune support and to get my C in an optimal range
Calcium-Magnesium Complex
to get my Cal/Mag in an optimal range, taken with MRP usually
Glucosamine and Chondroitine
joint repair and health as well as tissue repair
L-theanine
(immediatly post workout) reduce the body's response to stress in general
Vegan One Multiple Multivitamin
1 a day
Antioxidant
Pine Bark Extract: 30mg, Grape Seed Extract: 50mg, Co-Enzyme Q10: 10mg, Alpha Lipoic Acid: 50mg, Green Tea Extract: 50mg
Whey Protein Vanilla (Mega Pack) 10 lbs
To optimize protein % of various meals and in my MRPs.
< Message edited by danmirage -- 12/23/2007 10:32:24 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/27/2007 9:47:42 AM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
No.
Rule #1
Eat the LEAST amount of calories to get the result you want.
Start with 2200 and go a week, if you don't gain 1-2 pounds go to 2500 and go a week..then 2800, etc, until you are gaining 1-2 pounds a week...then stick with it until your gains start to slow, then bump it!
Food is THERMIC..meaning it raises your metabolism.
The more you eat, the more you need to eat!
Start with less and give yourself LOTS of room to progress.
If you start with 3500 calories or whatever..your body would adjust to that level of intake and burn off what it didn't need and you would need to eat 3800 just to bump that!
Hey Dan,
Sorry to get a little off topic, but some questions:
I'm 6'2" 180 lbs. Been trying to bulk pretty much this entire year but have only put on a little over 12 lbs all said and done. (I have had some injuries and sicknesses, but my lack of gains comes more from my lack of discipline) I have done a decent job of eating ENOUGH calories a day, but I haven't been getting GOOD calories. Not to mention I haven't even gotten technical and with 25% fats, 15% protein etc.
Basically I've focused on JUST trying to get calories, even if that means some junkfood, pizza, so on- and I've worked my way up to about 4000 calories a day. (I should mention that I haven't really gained ALL year, UNTIL recently when I started getting 4000 a day and a good deal of it is fat)
My goal is to slowly incorporate healthy food into my diet-- simply because eating 4000 calories a day of grilled chicken, veggies, and other things would be WAY to hard. I'd probably only be able to stuff 2000 calories down a day.
But since I've been bulking for so long with no break, I'm doing a little bit of cutting now just to change it up and surprise my body. How long in your opinion should I do this before getting back into the bulking game?
And as per the quoted section above, I think I'm going to start at around 2800 and work up when I get back into it (2800 is about what my TDEE is)
Thanks for your time!
Jared
(In case it matters, my 'end' goal if you will, is to be at something like 220 pounds. Not super lean and cut, but just a nice balanced look from mostly muscle)
< Message edited by Dolman -- 12/27/2007 9:49:20 AM >
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/27/2007 4:32:25 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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6 weeks is nice. 8 weeks is also nice. 12 weeks is nice if you do it smart. Max 12 weeks. If you are sharp about this and track your body composition changes with weekly calipers and circumference measurements, you can keep on top of what your body is doing and see when you need to make changes.
12 pounds in a year, of muscle, is nice.
After the cut, Take a week off. Scale back the diet, including the ratio of nutrients. Then start up again.
When in the fat-loss period, the goal is to lose 1/2 - 2 pounds a week. Reverse that for the mass gaining period only for muscle.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Dolman)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/27/2007 6:38:47 PM
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grantoiz
Posts: 865
Joined: 6/17/2006
From: cheshire, england
Status: offline
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nice journal dan, just a quick question ive been travelling round australia for the last few weeks from the uk.., and ive lost alot of mass due to little/zero workin ou and not eating to strict.. my waist has remained 32'' whilst my weight has dropped down to 183 from 192 at 5 foot 9. anyway how long can i expect it to take me to get back to where i was? thanks
_____________________________
height 5'9 weight 205 lbs b.f 17
bench press july 08: 255 *9
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZ-F7r2SNs
old bench video 245 * 10
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3633862719544729670
BENCH PRESS NEW EST MAX 330 LBS
deadlift : 485lbs
yates rows : 265 * 9
close grip bench press : 255 * 5
squat : 365 ! :@
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/27/2007 9:27:05 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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In my experience...you get it all back very fast.
I didn't train very much for YEARS because I was doing so much else. Then I just hit it. (this journal)
Lately, the last 12 weeks, you see I was so busy with school that I simply did not train much.
Well, 3 training sessions later and I have already filled out a little.
Some of the size is simply nutrients stored in muscle (the pump) and you get that size back fast (the first 8+ pounds of muscle)
To get back to a previous state...well forget that.
Set a new goal and just go for it.
You will be happy with the initial gains.
Don't worry about the losses while you have been having a life.
One of the reasons I train this way is so I can live a wild life and be fit as hell..I lose some of it and then I train and get it back...
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to grantoiz)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 12/27/2007 11:22:33 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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warm up (2 sets deadlifts, 30 reps 50-100 pounds)
Squat w/u 100x20, 120x20
Squat 170x15
Squat 170x14
Bench 130x12
Bench 140x12
Pulldown 80x15,
Pulldown 120*9
Pulldown 130x8
Military 80*15
Tri Pressdown 50*15
Military 90*12
Tri Pressdown 50*15
SLDL 60*15
Bi Curl 70*12
SLDL 70*15
Bi Curl 80*10
BCAA 5g = 1 Tsp (Mid)
Creatine 5g 1 Tsp (post)
L-Theonine (post)
PWO shake
L-Arganine 3g 1 Tsp (PRE-Bed)
Tomorrow:
Calf Raise 110*20
Weighted Crunch 50*20
Calf Raise 150*20
Weighted Crunch 50*20
Stretching & Cool Down
(all weight not including bar)
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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