RE: Looking for mass...
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/6/2006 7:28:07 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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I am going to give some of the rationale for my choice of workout regimen:
The key is to stimulate ongoing growth. This means keeping the body in a state where it has to continually adapt or as Daniel Gastelu more accurately says "acclimate"....and is supported in doing so.
Research has shown that changing your training each subsequent session for the same body part leads to more muscle growth than changing it every 4 weeks.
Focus on 80-100% compound (multi joint) movements and 0-20% isolation (single joint) movements.
Cycle the training (endurance, strength, hypertrophy) and vary the progressions in every cycle! This progression demonstrated greater muscle growth than it's reverse.
Proper form is king.
Start with the least amount of work to get the desired result...including both diet and training.
Accelerate the pace of concentric (lifting/pushing/pulling) portion of lifts in perfect form. Use control on eccentric portions (lowering) of movements. Feel full contractions at both isometric ends extended and flexed.
The revers of the above is also very powerful and research shows it also gives excellent results...that is DECELERATE an accelerated eccentric/lowering/releasing portion of a movement under control. Followed by a 2+ second pause at the end/bottom/extension to allow the muscle to de-load the stretch-reflex...then an accelerated concentric (lifting/pushing/pulling) portion of lifts, as fast as you can.
Do not train beyond the threshold of recovery and diminished returns ...instead train muscle with more intensity variations (Drop sets, supersets, etc).
You only need to challenge the body and muscle sufficient to bring about the desired adaptive response...then support recovery as completely as possible.
Because the body adapts quickly to stimuli, you need to vary the challenge to get the body to continue to respond with desirable adaptations.
Resting 2 or 5 minutes showed no change in results of strength training.
In hypertrophy training, shorter duration rests resulted in increased hypertrophy compared with longer rests.
In hypertrophy training high set volume (6) did not result in additional muscle growth or hormonal response over moderate set volume (4). Though additional muscle growth and hormonal response was higher in moderate set volume (4) than for low set volume (2).
Cardiovascular exercise results in a change in muscle building patterns that inhibits the optimal building of muscle. As the goal is optimal muscle growth, there will be no cardio.
The body adapts to protein intake, facilitating more waste as protein intake increases. Therefor I will start with a lower intake than normal and progress it. When lowering protein intake there is a loss of beneficial protein use as the body continues to waste high amounts of protein and lags in acclimation to lower intakes ...however this can be mitigated through protein timing and availability.
Supplementation refers to adding on to an already well defined nutrition and training program. If diet and exercise are not optimal, supplementation is wasted.
Leucine, a BCAA is known to be the protein synthesis catalyst in the body. BCAAs are also a source of muscle sparing energy.
Creatine's benefits are so well researched that I simply need to mention it will be used in it's pure form. The key being consistent use. Timing of dosage has not demonstrated that it is as important.
L-Arganine is an excellent antioxidant and increases cellular oxygenation in addition to it's mild vasodilation properties and supporting NO production.
Glucosamine and Chondroitin are precursors for tissue building and joint repair and will be used.
Additionally...every 10 pounds of muscle increases caloric needs 350 to 500 calories.
I will keep a journal with numerous measures "daily" including:
( ) Sleep quality
( ) Workout intensity capacity
( ) Mental Focus
( ) Energy
( ) Mood
( ) Water intake
( ) Adherence to meals
These are links to what I use:
L-Arginine
4-6 grams pre bed
or in pill form L-Arganine (4-6 grams) and Citrulline (200-1000mg)
L-Arganine
L-Citrulline
BCAA
.035 g per pound of bodyweight or 1/4 teaspoon per 35 pounds taken immediatly pre workout and again the same immediatly post workout
Creatine
1 hour pre workout 3-5 grams
Glutamine
Rarely but - 2 grams after severe workouts, pre bed if 2 hours after a meal
Fish Oil
2 teaspoons a day fills out my calories right now
or
Krill Oil
I switch between 3 MRPs for if/when when I need those or post workout
Now ProGainer - Chocolate..the vanilla is nasty- this is also the one that I make pudding with...
Champion Super Heavy Weight Gainer 1200
Now Lean Grow - for down days or as a quick meal replacement/boost with teeth but no carbs
B-50 complex
with the MRP to aid in using the carbs and daily to keep my b vitamins near optimal
C-500
various times for immune support and to get my C in an optimal range
Calcium-Magnesium Complex
to get my Cal/Mag in an optimal range, taken with MRP usually
Glucosamine and Chondroitine
joint repair and health as well as tissue repair
L-theanine
(immediatly post workout) reduce the body's response to stress in general
Vegan One Multiple Multivitamin
1 a day
Antioxidant
Pine Bark Extract: 30mg, Grape Seed Extract: 50mg, Co-Enzyme Q10: 10mg, Alpha Lipoic Acid: 50mg, Green Tea Extract: 50mg
Whey Protein Vanilla (Mega Pack) 10 lbs
To optimize protein % of various meals and in my MRPs.
< Message edited by danmirage -- 2/26/2008 6:56:39 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/6/2006 8:12:42 PM
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Lynx100
Posts: 1006
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
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Sorry to hijack your journal - So going by the 'acclimatisation' theory Dan, isnt it then reasonable to think that should we be cycling our diet too? i.e. protein and carb?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/6/2006 8:43:57 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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I am happy to discuss anything here...
as I said...
quote:
The body adapts to protein intake, facilitating more waste as protein intake increases. Therefor I will start with a lower intake than normal and progress it. When lowering protein intake there is a loss of beneficial protein use as the body continues to waste high amounts of protein and lags in acclimation to lower intakes ...however this can be mitigated through protein timing and availability.
However, nutrition adaptation is the opposite of training adaptation. Acclimation to training is to benefit the body, but is generally not what we want if it happens too quickly. It enables the body to do less work and handle a recurring event more easily, which might mean more muscle...but then the body is acclimated!
Acclimation to nutrition is to be more efficient at the foods we take in and more beneficial to us!...better at burning fat or storing it, better at using fat or carbs for energy rather than protein...better at building muscle, better at storing and using energy for training, etc.
The key thing about cycling fat, protein, and carbs is to manipulate hormonal response.
There is a small advantage to doing a low protein period...in hormonal response, as the body will be more apt to use the protein for building, when you raise the intake, if the stimulus is there.
There is not a whole lot of actual research on benefits of nutrition cycling...however there is good research showing that the consistent diet gives favorable results...
We may yet learn something about benefits to cycling the diet. I know one researcher who is also a natural bodybuilder working on protein intake questions in clinical research.
I do cycle my total calories, rotate my food choices, modulate my nutrient balance (though I know that certain balances are ideal based on personal oxidative and metabolic rates), etc...
I just lowered my calories to an average of 2500 for the last few weeks. This was to slow my TSH production and thus my metabolism...so that I could start to gain at 3000 calories rather than 4500...in 20 pounds I will be back at 4500+- but I would rather start eating a lower intake and see gains!!
Keep in mind we increase our total calories as we gain muscle...and we vary our total protein, carbs, and fat over time...
That is kind of a trick...many people come to the site and are eating 1700, do a calories calculator and see they need 3000 to gain..and switch to 3000 right away and lose all the benefit of going 2300...2550...2800..3000!!! They kick up the thyroid production in response to the sudden hypercaloric intake! They miss all the gains they could have had on the way up. Same thing with people who start off with 8 sets per body part! 
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Lynx100)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/6/2006 9:42:57 PM
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Lynx100
Posts: 1006
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
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So then, what is the best way to optimise our hormonal response with diet?
And what hormones are we talknig about here? Just increasing the anabolic ones? Insulin, thyroid and testosterone? Or can dietary changes significant reduced catabolic hormones as well? (i.e cortisol)
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/8/2006 8:51:45 AM
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Lynx100
Posts: 1006
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
A daunting topic at the moment. yes, all the anabolic hormones...as well as avoiding catabolic states.
Perhaps I will compile a primer for the answer to that! And then we can refine it.
Sounds like a plan!!
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/8/2006 9:05:59 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Hey, Dan. I will be happy to help you with your diet and supplements. Thanks for reading my posts. I write them in order to provide some "experienced" help and support to those who might be interested in competing.
Thank you Scott, I have found a great deal of value in your posts.
First, in the form of motivation.
Like you, I love bodybuilding. I love the look, smells, sounds, feel, struggles, etc...everything!
Your posts are like a book on breaking into bodybuilding...(when you get your pro card...how about it?)
Second, with my extensive understanding of nutrition and training, it is fascinating to look at the cycles you go through in diet, nutrition, and training.
When I get closer to choosing a contest, I will certainly be picking your brain!
For posing, for timing, for supplementation...etc..
Since I never made it to the weeks of competition cutting in any of my previous moves toward BB competition...I simply do not have the experience or arriving in top shape and would certainly want to have someone on my side who did have it! Plus, in your working with Dave and other's you have some insight, I imagine, into how what you know really applies to others.
I am still looking at being at the National Gym Association (NGA) event in
Atlanta, Georgia - September 30th as cheerleader for "Team Old Navy" !!
I am excited!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Old Navy)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/8/2006 2:57:05 PM
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Old Navy
Posts: 1905
Joined: 1/7/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
quote:
Hey, Dan. I will be happy to help you with your diet and supplements. Thanks for reading my posts. I write them in order to provide some "experienced" help and support to those who might be interested in competing.
Thank you Scott, I have found a great deal of value in your posts.
First, in the form of motivation.
Like you, I love bodybuilding. I love the look, smells, sounds, feel, struggles, etc...everything!
Your posts are like a book on breaking into bodybuilding...(when you get your pro card...how about it?)
Second, with my extensive understanding of nutrition and training, it is fascinating to look at the cycles you go through in diet, nutrition, and training.
When I get closer to choosing a contest, I will certainly be picking your brain!
For posing, for timing, for supplementation...etc..
Since I never made it to the weeks of competition cutting in any of my previous moves toward BB competition...I simply do not have the experience or arriving in top shape and would certainly want to have someone on my side who did have it! Plus, in your working with Dave and other's you have some insight, I imagine, into how what you know really applies to others.
I am still looking at being at the National Gym Association (NGA) event in
Atlanta, Georgia - September 30th as cheerleader for "Team Old Navy" !!
I am excited!
Me too, Dan. I really want to win my Master's Pro Card at the NGA. I am doing a 'warm up' show, the OCB Gulf States Bodybuilding Championship in Baton Rouge, LA, on September 16, two weeks before the NGA event. I will be ripped and shredded for the NGA. When you are ready, I will be your long-distance Personal Trainer. Distance Learning is the way to play, without pay...I'm free. LOL
< Message edited by Old Navy -- 8/8/2006 3:00:48 PM >
_____________________________
Scott "Old Navy" Hults, NFPT-CPT; NGA-CPT
FAME, NGA & IDFA Natural Master Pro Bodybuilder
FAME, NGA & OCB Contest Judge
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/9/2006 7:23:46 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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I would be honored!
August 8 Active Rest Day
1-10 (10 =best)
(9) Sleep quality
(-) Workout intensity capacity
(6) Mental Focus
(7) Energy
(6) Mood
(9) Water intake
(9) Adherence to meals
- about 20-30+ minutes of walking in the beautiful outdoors
- Only shift in diet is meal 4
Meal 4:
BCAA 5000 Powder Optimum Nutrition 1.5 Teaspoon (pre walk)
Creatine 5G (pre walk)
L-Arganine 4g (pre walk)
NOW Lean Grow 1/2 cup (post walk)
Green Beans 4 oz.
Calcium & Magnesium - Natures Way 1 Capsule (post walk)
B-Complex 50 Solaray 1 Capsule (post walk)
Vitamin C 500 Solaray 1 Capsule (post walk)
The end result was an Increase in fiber and a drop in
-8 grams fat
-48 grams carbs
-9 grams protein
-310 calories
August 9 Training Journal
Woke this AM leaner than yesterday. My waist measure even shrunk and I can see more abs. I started to feel a bit hungry at times right at meal time yesterday. I was hoping the 3000 calories (2700 on the off day) would start the gains off nicely.
I won't test my composition again until the 12th to determine where to take my calories. Though I may weigh tomorrow to see if I am gaining or losing weight. Maybe I need to adjust calories up?
Next weeks training is going to be strength training- for 2 weeks- then I will go into a very specific muscle hypertrophy training for a while, 8-10 weeks. I will be testing a few things in 4 week increments during that time which I will cover later.
Due to my personal oxidative rate and past training experience - I have not found a mix of nutrients that works as well as 30% fat, 45% Carbs, 25% Protein for me.
I will be trying out a different mix of nutrients for a few weeks (4?) based on how I feel after the first 2 I may try 2 more. I won't start that for 4 weeks and I will discuss that more later.
There is no cardio in this routine..though the routine is very aerobic due to the pace..I am breathing as much air in as I can almost all the way through. On the 7th I felt like I almost blacked out from the squats! I have not done that in a while! Thats what I get for doing the squats near the END.
A note about the creatine...after listening to one researcher discuss findings on creatine I will be taking my creatine 1 hour before training. The researcher said it takes about an hour for the creatine concentration to peak in the blood and the force of blood to the muscles during training, in effect, targets the delivery.
He was also discussing the post workout delivery of amino acids and said that they found a 30 minute window for consumption for the optimal anabolic effect. I was already aware of this and am very religious about it, but it is nice to hear these things discussed.
1-10 (10 =best)
(9) Sleep quality
(9) Workout intensity capacity
(7) Mental Focus
(8) Energy
(7) Mood
(10) Water intake
(10) Adherence to meals
Creatine 5g 1 (hour before training)
BCAA 7.5g = 1.5 Tsp x2 (immediately pre and post)
L-Arganine 3g 1 Tsp
ALC 3g 1.5g x2
L-Theonine 100 mg (post)
The Workout:
Done in supersets to shorten the duration.
10 exercises. 2 sets each (shown). 12-15 reps each. Heavy but not to failure. Minimal rest.
warm up
Hack Squat
Hack Squat
Calf Raise
Calf Raise
Incline Bench
Bent Row
Incline Bench
Bent Row
Skull Crush
Upright Row
Skull Crush
Upright Row
Preacher Curl
Preacher Curl
Weighted Crunch
SLDL
Weighted Crunch
SLDL
Stretching & Cool Down
Took 45 minutes. Was fun and awesome. Looking forward to Friday where I go to failure aiming for 8-10.
I was hungry today! I will weigh myself tomorrow to see if I am losing weight...
< Message edited by danmirage -- 8/9/2006 8:36:23 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Old Navy)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/13/2006 8:24:39 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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I am enjoying the days off but itching to lift again. I feel good and look good and want to make that even better. I want to get back to 166 pounds of lean mass and then top 170...then 175...
Though I look modelish and people comment on how "fit" I am now...I want more muscle size...so there is no doubt about my appetite for muscle.
Today I am scheduled to take some photos...we will see if they come out any good!
Being pale as white flour makes photos hard...all detail is washed away. I should some paint on tan and paint mysef for the next photos.
I am ghostly..you can see through my skin in a spectral way. I go over well in gothic circles...good thing I love to dance to that music.
"You are so fit and...pale." Thats what someone just said to me. he he he
I do get out every day or so for 45 minutes in the sun...but in actuality I have low pigment. I am not anything like an albino. I have a nice healthy flush to me. I grew up and lived at the beach in Santa Monica, California and Venice, California...I spent more than a few years sailing the high seas...I trained for Desert Storm and lived in the dessert for what seemed an eternity...all to no avail...the slight color I pick up fades in a short time.
Ahh well.
Later I will finish my meal plan and put that in and I will pop in a copy of the workout for tomorrow.
Next 2 weeks is Basic Strength and Mass Training.
Calories are going up 300 to 3300, still in the 45 carb, 25 pro, 30 fat ratio...i will switch that September 10 to another ratio to test it - I will talk more about that soon.
I will watch the response to food closely and raise the cals if I need to!
I will do 2 weeks of strength and then the first 2 weeks of hypertrophy training with just my standard ratio (45 carb, 25 pro, 30 fat), then the next 2 weeks of hypertrophy training with another ratio to compare, after that I may stick with it or go back...if I go back I will go a week back on my standard ratios and the next week I may add some supplements...for a month to test them...(discuss that later)
August 13-26 - Strength and mass training
August 27 - September 9 - Hypertrophy Training (baseline for growth)
September 10 - September 23 - Hypertrophy Training with Experimental diet
September 24 - September 30 - Hypertrophy Training on basic diet to establish baseline again or start 4 week supplement cycle and remain on Experimental diet
This will run until Octover 21 or October 28...after that I may do 2 weeks of muscle shaping and leaning and take a week off.
September 30 - Atlanta GA Team Old Navy rocks the NGA
My hope is to have 6-10 more pounds of muscle by the time I get to Atlant GA to support Old Navy!
Strength and mass Training
The objective is to train the major muscles with compound movments in intense sessions...hitting the fast twitch fibers hard.
The rests will be a bit longer to allow for max strength between the two heavy sets, with a total goal workout time of 40 minutes.
The whole body will be trained 3x a week with the following basic scheme
Set 1 warm up set with a weight that would allow 20....for 10 reps
Set 2 warm up set with a weight that would allow 12...for 8 reps
Set 3 same as set #2 but 6 reps
Set 4 Select a weight that would allow 4-6 reps to MMF
Set 5 Select a weight that would allow 4-6 reps to MMF (if #4 was over 6 reps...go up in weight)
Every workout will vary.
Exercises...
Quads-Squat
Chest-Press (Incline / Flat / Lower)
Back-Row (Bent / Cable / High)
Bi-Curl (Standard / Preacher / Hammer)
Tri-Dip/Extension (Crushers / Overhead / Pressdown Dip)
Shoulder - Press (Military)
Calf - Raises (standing / seated style)
Deadlift (yea)
Abs (weighted crunch, weighted reverse crunch, weighted leg raise)
Post workout will include glutamine for stress recovery, L-theanine to minimize stress, and the standard PWO formula:
(40G) 0.2 g/lb fast assimilated carbs contain a 1:1 glucose(dextrose):fructose mixture
(20G) 0.1 g/lb protein from whey with 7g BCAA added
Followed with a meal in about 1 hour
< Message edited by danmirage -- 8/27/2006 7:54:47 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Looking for mass... - 8/13/2006 11:26:00 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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As I was needing to go back and look at what food combinations were most successful for me in my mass gaining , I had to go back and compare the combination of training and diet on the results.
I thought it might be interesting to to share the last years changes in body composition/Lean Mass/Fat/weight straight from my electronic journal.
I also have the exact diets I was eating and the exact training I was doing in each of these periods.
Date 8/13/05 9/13/05 9/24/05 10/7/05 10/17/05 10/25/05
Calories 1950 2100 2200 2200 2500 2500
Weight 175 167 165 165 168 169
BF% 20.0% 18.0% 16.9% 16.5% 14.8% 15.6%
Lean 140 137 137 138 143 143
Fat 35 30 28 27 25 26
11/2/05 11/10/05 11/18/05 11/24/05 11/29/05 12/6/05 12/17/05
2500 2700 2700 2700 3000 3500 3500
171 172 172 175 175 175 176
14.6% 15.5% 14.6% 15.9% 15.9% 16.9% 15.3%
146 145 146.9 147.2 147.2 145.4 149.1
25 27 25.1 27.8 27.8 29.6 26.9
1/24/06 2/1/06 2/6/06 2/11/06 2/20/06 2/25/06 3/4/06 3/11/06 3/17/06 3/24/06
2700 2700 3000 3000 3150 3150 3150 3150 3300 3300
175 175 176 180 180 181 183 184 185.5 186.5
15.7% 14.6% 15.0% 14.8% 14.9% 14.9% 14.6% 14.9% 15.1% 14.8%
147.5 148.6 149.5 153.4 153.2 154.0 156.3 156.6 157.5 158.8
27.5 25.4 26.5 26.6 26.8 27.0 26.7 27.4 28.0 27.7
4/5/06 4/15/06 4/23/06 5/2/06 5/16/06 5/25/03 7/4/06 7/29/06 8/7/06 8/12/06
3300 2700 2700 2700 3000 3150 2529 2529 3000 3300
184.5 188.5 189.5 187.5 188.5 189 194.5 192 190 191
15.8% 15.8% 16.0% 15.2% 15.6% 15.4% 17.1% 16.1% 14.5% 14.5%
155.3 158.7 159.2 158.9 159.2 160.0 161.2 161.0 162.4 163.4
29.2 29.8 30.3 28.6 29.3 29.0 33.3 31.0 27.6 27.6
8/22/06 8/29/06 9/5/06 9/12/06 9/19/06
3300 3300 3300 3300 3300
193.5 194.5 196.5 198.5 200.5
15.1% 15.2% 15.4% 15.0% 15.4%
164.3 165.0 166.2 168.8 169.7
29.2 29.5 30.3 29.7 30.8
It is interesting to note the two largest gains in mass I had and why.
#1
10/7/05 ---> 10/17/05 A 5 pound gain in mass...what happened?
From 9/29-10/17 my calories were around 2200-2300 and I did not raise them. 27% fat/ 42% Carbs / 31% Pro
BUT on 10/7 I was doing 1-set per bodypart in a 20 minute workout with only 6 exercises 2 or sometimes 3 times a week. The week of 10/10 I got in 3 sessions and session #3 I changed to doing 2 sets per bodypart and took 40 minutes!!
#2
2/6/06 - 2/11/06 3.9 pounds of Lean Mass gained in 5 days
On 2/6 I increased my calories from 2700 to 3000 both with a 45 carb, 25 pro, 30 fat ratio
Prior to 2/3 i was training the whole body each training day.
However 1/31 it took nearly an hour because I switched to 2 pre-exhaust sets before 1 compound movement per muscle.
So 2/4 I went to a 2-day split so the workout only took 30 minutes each of 2 consecutive days!
The switch to more itense, shorter duration 2/day workout + calories stimulated the growth.
In each case...the drastic change in training led to the jump in muscle...I wonder if all the 3 lb muscle gains I had were where I switched my routine?
I know from published research that changing the routine weekly leads to greater muscle mass gains over changeing every 4 weeks...Hmmmmm..interesting.
As an aside...12/17 was a 3.7 pound gain...just before that I knew I was going on a trip so I did a double split to get my last 2 workouts in....that is doing the AM and PM workout thing..so upper AM Lower PM.
I'll think about this: week 1 of strength I will do 3 days of full body..and week 2 I will do a 2/day split?
< Message edited by danmirage -- 9/20/2006 4:40:01 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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