RE: best fat burn by designer supplements
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/20/2006 4:00:12 PM
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ebbearsfb1
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as long as it helps me get ripped up some what. cause im pretty ripped now just wanted to take it to get me over the top. and it will help me lose some body fat which is good
(in reply to 40 yard dash 2)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/20/2006 8:14:03 PM
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Twin Peak
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To add to what 40 said, Basic Cuts is a potent stimulating fat-burner. It is no miracle pill. If your diet and training is locked down, Basic Cuts will help you (like any other well crafted stimulating fatburner).
Basic Cuts will:
* increase metabolism
* provide energy
* increase core temperature
* suppress appetite.
Its difficult to quantify how much extra fat you will burn, but using 2-3 doses a day, I have seen people that have lost in 6-8 weeks what would normally take them 8-10.
Frankly, if you are looking to maximize fat-loss, Basic Cuts stacked with Melting Point is a superb combination. You get the best of both worlds by hitting fat-loss from a myriad of lypolytic pathways.
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(in reply to ebbearsfb1)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/20/2006 8:33:32 PM
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Cdub05
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ahhh dont take pills and all that....alot of those pills block fat and stuff from going into your system but they often block out much needed nutrients. JUST RUN AND DIET cmon dont take the easy way out. I run 2 miles a day and i save money and actualy get in better shape. The pill will do nothin but waste ur money in my opinion
(in reply to ebbearsfb1)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/21/2006 4:19:01 AM
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Twin Peak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Cdub05
ahhh dont take pills and all that....alot of those pills block fat and stuff from going into your system but they often block out much needed nutrients. JUST RUN AND DIET cmon dont take the easy way out. I run 2 miles a day and i save money and actualy get in better shape. The pill will do nothin but waste ur money in my opinion
Well thought out and articulate opinion. It is based on what? I ask, because it is not based on fact. Particularly considering that VERY FEW products work by blocking the absorbtion of fat and nutrients -- indeed, none of the products discussed here do.
I guess it is easier to make broad, sweeping generalizations, than to actually critically think about the issue and the products being discussed.
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(in reply to Cdub05)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/21/2006 9:02:10 AM
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ShaqAtack
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First, I wanted to agree with Automan earlier in the post. Diet and exercise by far is the most important for losing fat. Your carbohydrate intake should be decreased dramatically (but not going into ketosis) and your fat should be decreased (so chicken and non-fatty fish instead of beef, and no nuts or seeds), and your protein should remain quite high. You should also consider eliminating all dairy products except non-lactose whey. Milk products really cause a lack of definition due to lack of appropriate enzymes in the typical person. If you take all that into account for your unique situation, you will be well on your way.
To 40 yard dash in regard to ephedra...Just so you know, on the government's OWN dangerous consumables website, number one and number two are tobacco and alcohol (which have not been banned from purchase), and Ephedra is nowhere to be found on that list of scientifically-proven dangerous consumables, yet was banned by the FDA in a heart-beat because a couple potential cases of problems (out of millions of purchases), but mainly because of supplement's competition with more expensive fat loss "drugs". IF, after many studies, Ephedra emerges as truly dangerous for humans, then why not put a warning label on it like tobacco and let the people decide if they want to buy it? But the bottom line is it was not proven dangerous, and the FDA overreacted because Ephedra companies don't pay the FDA as much money to look the other way as tobacco companies do. The FDA has a terrible track record of taking off perfectly good nutrients because of small reported cases of problems, which were never investigated (!), just because their presence interferes with sale of drugs.
To modagg, the best cotisol inhibitor is Insulin. So frequent meals with carbohydrates and protein will limit cortisol's secretion throughout the day, and do it for no more than your normal cost of food! Cortisol is secreted under extreme stress with minimal blood glucose (weightlifting without consuming carbs during). Remember muscle glycogen and blood glucose levels are different things. Cortisol responds to the level of blood glucose. Naturally supplement companies don't want you to know that and purchase their cortisol-inhibitors instead. Also certain amino acids when present in large quantities like BCAA's and Glutamine can inhibit cortisol in their own specific immune-boosting ways.
And to Ebbears, why don't we just address your problem head on. You want maximum fat loss, while maintaining strength. Since you would have to be in a calorie deficit, it will be tough to increase strength dieting, compared to not dieting. Here are some food choice guidelines for you to tailor to your own situation, rather than abstract facts and figures.
Carb sources:
Green Vegetables (not starchy like corn), potato (the only starch I'd recommend, but eat it the first meal after your workout), fruit juice (only before and during the workout, and at no other time), Toast. You shouldn't really include any other carbs than these, because they are too many calories.
Protein Sources:
Chicken (without skin), Turkey, Fish (broiled), Eggs, Whey (with no lactose). The consumption of these foods will easily get you enough protein grams to satisfy the requirement.
Fat Sources:
Reduce consumption of all oils. This means don't do any cooking with oil, and don't eat any nuts and seeds and peanut butter when trying to diet. A healthy exception is one tablespoon of the fish oil per day. The only fat you should consume should come from the eggs and the fish/flax oil.
Micronutrients:
I'd recommend extra calcium because of laying off of dairy produts. I'd recomend a lot of vitamin D to help absorb that calcium. I'd recommend more B-vitamins and Glutamine since you're laying off Beef (chicken provides a lot of glutamine however). I'd recommend BCAA's which have been scientifically-proven to help reduce belly fat.
And, I hope that helps.
(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/21/2006 9:17:25 AM
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moralski
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From: abortion clinic escapee
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i'll be cutting in a couple weeks myself. I've gotten my supps already. here's my stack:
ephedra
caffeine
asprin
and reducing calories and upping cardio. i expect to drop about 10lbs. i'm at 9% bf right now.
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(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/21/2006 9:30:25 AM
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ShaqAtack
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To Twin Peak about Cdub's comments:
Regardless of the accuracy of his described mechanisms for fat burners, he nevertheless gave good advice. It was clear to me he was trying to make a point and not say all pills use that mechanism.
Is your response to a potential customer indicative of your customer service? The sarcasm in your first two sentences in your first paragraph, and your second paragraph, sounded very unprofessional which I think may help hinder the selling of your products. I'm just trying to help bring to your attention the tone of yoru response for your own benefit.
(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/21/2006 5:39:50 PM
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40 yard dash 2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
To 40 yard dash in regard to ephedra...Just so you know, on the government's OWN dangerous consumables website, number one and number two are tobacco and alcohol (which have not been banned from purchase), and Ephedra is nowhere to be found on that list of scientifically-proven dangerous consumables, yet was banned by the FDA in a heart-beat because a couple potential cases of problems (out of millions of purchases), but mainly because of supplement's competition with more expensive fat loss "drugs". IF, after many studies, Ephedra emerges as truly dangerous for humans, then why not put a warning label on it like tobacco and let the people decide if they want to buy it? But the bottom line is it was not proven dangerous, and the FDA overreacted because Ephedra companies don't pay the FDA as much money to look the other way as tobacco companies do. The FDA has a terrible track record of taking off perfectly good nutrients because of small reported cases of problems, which were never investigated (!), just because their presence interferes with sale of drugs.
We will just have to disagree. Potential risks or issues associated with Ephedra are, elevated resting heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, tolerance, dependency, vasoconstriction, restlessness, anxiety, jitteriness, nausea, irregular heat rate, etc.
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(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/22/2006 11:20:21 AM
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Twin Peak
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Thanks for the comments. I reread my post, and also his, and I stand by it.
His comments were beyond general, they were specific -- they went to the products discussed in this thread. None of them block absorbtion of anything, therefore, his argument is meritless in that regard.
I also disagree with your statement that his advise was good. It was not. Actually, it was silly. The notion that all supplements are a waste of money is silly. The notion that all you need to do is run 2 miles a day is silly.
Advising someone that supplements are secondary to exercse and diet is good advice. Advising someone that they should not buy into marketing hype, and should not buy stuff without researching the ingredients to ensure (1) efficacy, and (2) that they are properly dosed. That's good advise.
What I saw posted, was not.
And my tone was in reference to that. As a moderator, I would have had the exact same tone and response regardless of thread topic and whose products are being discussed. Their is nothing more irritating to me than people who crusade through the supplement section preaching against supplements, particularly when they don't know their ass from their elbow. You know, the guy who joins a thread to answer the question, "what is the best supplement for gaining muscle?" with the single word "food."
Supplements work. Plain and simple. Some are crap, some are too expensive, some are underdosed, some should be avoided at all costs. That is why I preach education and critical thinking. And why I despise uneducated, pointless regurgitation of inaccurate and misleading information.
If that offends you as a potential consumer, I will have to live with that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
To Twin Peak about Cdub's comments:
Regardless of the accuracy of his described mechanisms for fat burners, he nevertheless gave good advice. It was clear to me he was trying to make a point and not say all pills use that mechanism.
Is your response to a potential customer indicative of your customer service? The sarcasm in your first two sentences in your first paragraph, and your second paragraph, sounded very unprofessional which I think may help hinder the selling of your products. I'm just trying to help bring to your attention the tone of yoru response for your own benefit.
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(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/22/2006 11:27:49 AM
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Nic
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I'd like to add my point of view here !
I am not against supplements, never will I be !
BUT I am for trying to reach our limits naturally before using supps. I mean if I want to lose fat I would not use fat burners because it's the quickest way. I would change my diet, my workouts, I would inform myself of all the ways in order to reduce my bf%. Then when I reach my physical limits, I would maybe think about using supps.
Same thing with bulking.
The problem is that many bodybuilders use supps right away without knowing their own physical limits. It's important that you know what your body responds to and how to reach that limit point. Once you know that, you might want to use supps.
I had to add my 2c here !
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(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/22/2006 9:14:07 PM
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ShaqAtack
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Hi Twin Peak. I very much respect your wanting to keep things very accurate, particularly when involving your supplements. While his post may have been written in haste, I took it as him making a point that pills, drugs, etc. not necessarily yours, have the potential to intefere with normal bodily processes.
However, let's keep this real. I know the primary item on your agenda is to sell your supplements. That's not a particularly bad thing, and you sound more legit than other companies which are out there. But if someone has an opinion that diet and aerobics in addition to weight training is what you need to lose fat (which I personally endorse), then I think they have a right to express that opinion. However, this isn't my forum.
Without question, there is scientific basis for supplements increasing athletic performance, and increasing the recovery rate and protein synthesis following exercise. And I'm aware that those with the whey and BCAA's are stronger than those without which gives substantiation to the use of supplements being more effective than just diet. But this is only with regard to enhancing performance and strength, and building muscle mass.
I would like to know though how anyone can sell a fat loss supplement that is more effective than the right macronutrient ratio withOUT dangerously speeding up the body's natural processes with stimulants or artificial metabolic activators. If you have one, your description of that "amazing fat loss supplement" which you possess must not include carbohydrates, fats, amino acids or micro- and phyto-nutrients because I can get that through my food. So since you're so adamant about supplements effectiveness for fat loss, I would like to know what you can do for me above what food or nutrients can for fat loss. Now sure, you can make indirect arguments that if something causes me to build more muscle it increases my metabolism, but let's not nit-pick. You're selling it as a fat loss supplement, not muscle-building. So please describe the mechanism for me.
And lastly, I'm not personally offended by your comments. I just thought others might be and I was letting you know how that post sounded.
(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/22/2006 9:25:23 PM
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ShaqAtack
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"We will just have to disagree. Potential risks or issues associated with Ephedra are, elevated resting heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, tolerance, dependency, vasoconstriction, restlessness, anxiety, jitteriness, nausea, irregular heat rate, etc. "
Hi 40 yard dash. Well you're certainly open to your opinion. And I respect it as well. However, not until you're able to prove it (as opposed to calling it 'potential risks') and publish it in a study where it happens in greater than 25% of cases will "I" be convinced. If there were scientific studies to support the ban of ephedra it would be on the government's dangerous consumables list. Alas, it is not.
(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/23/2006 8:39:27 AM
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Twin Peak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
"We will just have to disagree. Potential risks or issues associated with Ephedra are, elevated resting heart rate, blood pressure, blood glucose, tolerance, dependency, vasoconstriction, restlessness, anxiety, jitteriness, nausea, irregular heat rate, etc. "
Hi 40 yard dash. Well you're certainly open to your opinion. And I respect it as well. However, not until you're able to prove it (as opposed to calling it 'potential risks') and publish it in a study where it happens in greater than 25% of cases will "I" be convinced. If there were scientific studies to support the ban of ephedra it would be on the government's dangerous consumables list. Alas, it is not.
My personal opinion on E/C and its safety is much more in line with yours, than with 40. 40 is quite educated on the topic however, and I do respect his opinion on the topic, even if I don't agree with it.
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(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/23/2006 8:59:57 AM
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Twin Peak
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
Hi Twin Peak. I very much respect your wanting to keep things very accurate, particularly when involving your supplements. While his post may have been written in haste, I took it as him making a point that pills, drugs, etc. not necessarily yours, have the potential to intefere with normal bodily processes.
Fair enough. I didn't take it that way, and I suspect some take it as you did and some don't. I was looking to clear up that peice.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
However, let's keep this real. I know the primary item on your agenda is to sell your supplements.
Primary? Not really. If that were my primary goal, I'd probably not have come off how I did right? My primary goal it to educate. If that results in the sale, great. If not, so be it. I often steer people away from supplement use, and from use of DS supplements.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
That's not a particularly bad thing, and you sound more legit than other companies which are out there. But if someone has an opinion that diet and aerobics in addition to weight training is what you need to lose fat (which I personally endorse), then I think they have a right to express that opinion. However, this isn't my forum.
That is not what he expressed however. With that comment, I agree with. Indeed, I have written MANY articles on diet and on training. To think that I would not endorse what you wrote, means that you don't have knowledge about what I have contributed to this and other boards.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
Without question, there is scientific basis for supplements increasing athletic performance, and increasing the recovery rate and protein synthesis following exercise. And I'm aware that those with the whey and BCAA's are stronger than those without which gives substantiation to the use of supplements being more effective than just diet. But this is only with regard to enhancing performance and strength, and building muscle mass.
There is significant research on lypolytic supplements, your research is lacking.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
I would like to know though how anyone can sell a fat loss supplement that is more effective than the right macronutrient ratio withOUT dangerously speeding up the body's natural processes with stimulants or artificial metabolic activators. If you have one, your description of that "amazing fat loss supplement" which you possess must not include carbohydrates, fats, amino acids or micro- and phyto-nutrients because I can get that through my food. So since you're so adamant about supplements effectiveness for fat loss, I would like to know what you can do for me above what food or nutrients can for fat loss. Now sure, you can make indirect arguments that if something causes me to build more muscle it increases my metabolism, but let's not nit-pick. You're selling it as a fat loss supplement, not muscle-building. So please describe the mechanism for me.
This paragraph is a tad confusing. There are supplements that HELP fat-loss. They work through a variety of different pathways.
They do not work IN LIEU of diet, or in lieu of training. They SUPPLEMENT it -- meaning, make it easier or faster. In other words, using the right products, you can turn a 10 week diet into an 8 week diet, or you can make the diet easier on your body. Or you can eat a few more calories and lose the same amount of wait.
As I said, there are a number of ingredients and products on the market. Here is an article I wrote about a year and a half ago:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par45.htm
As to our products, there is a TON of information about them, and their mechanisms of action on our website. If like, take a look, and if you have any questions, let me know. None of them are a MAGIC BULLET, they are what they claim to be, useful fat-loss supplements.
www.designersupps.com
quote:
ORIGINAL: ShaqAtack
And lastly, I'm not personally offended by your comments. I just thought others might be and I was letting you know how that post sounded.
I sincerely appreciate your concern. However, as I said above, selling isn't my primary goal. And in order to get someones attention, sometimes you need to bang a loud drum.
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(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/23/2006 1:42:20 PM
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ShaqAtack
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The reason I wrote that paragraph, asking for you to explain how your fat loss supplements can work so effectively (which diet and exercise alone can't do for me), is because in your previous post you held supplements with such high esteem.
With regard to lipolytic supplements, maybe I should add the provision, "research done in respectable journals by respectable scientists." If there are controlled studies that have been done that included the use of your supplements or ingredients in your supplements and their effects on human physiology (with a conclusive result having more positive than negative side effects for the subjects) then please point them out to me! I found close to zilch in Journal of Clinical Nutrition, and Sport's Nutrition journals. And this tells me that a majority of the studies are funded by the supplement companies themselves and not a third party such as university scientists. And naturally, they circulate the results of those "successful studies" all over the internet to make it appear as fact. So if my research is lacking, please enlighten me. But I don't do my research by typing something into google.
Again, I challenge you to answer my question of, without safety risks, what can you do to make my fat loss quicker than diet and exercise alone which would give credence that fat-loss diet supplements make the diet more effective?
If I have time I may visit your website.
< Message edited by ShaqAtack -- 4/23/2006 1:47:59 PM >
(in reply to Twin Peak)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/23/2006 2:07:06 PM
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ShaqAtack
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I had just visited your website to look at your top fat burner "Melting Point" which is simply a combination of fatty acids. Now if you'll remember, I challenged you to show me a fat-loss supplement that does not include one of the 6 basic nutrients, becaue I can get that all from food.
There is no doubt your supplement has worth for losing fat because of insulin supression alone (if carbs were low you could start arguing about ketosis metabolisms), but I can get all the same effects with a properly-designed diet which includes flaxseed and other healthy seed or nuts oils. Why is it essential that we get your supplement to accomplish that task? Is it for the convenience alone?
Out of curiosity, can the chemist behind the scenes get me the chemical formulas of your fatty acid blend?
(in reply to ShaqAtack)
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RE: best fat burn by designer supplements - 4/23/2006 6:10:10 PM
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modagg
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i dont care if its poop wrapped in tin foil as long as it works.
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(in reply to 40 yard dash 2)
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