RE: Fat and Muscle
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 6:44:14 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
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From: Texas
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i think one of the only ways that is actually accurate on how much weight is what, is to do that underwater deal, or the x-ray deal. i never really looked that much into it because i figured i would tell how much fat i had on me when i lost it. not really setting a goal, just monitoring my progress.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:06:31 PM
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JR0D08
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i am like 22% body fat i think, maybe a little less or more. my PT said it was around there. so should i give hot rox a shot? and ill be takin nitrix muscle milk and glutamine, and also CEE
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:18:16 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
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From: Texas
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well how active are you during the day. what sports do you play, how much workout time do you do, how much cardio do you do. etc.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:18:59 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
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quote:
i think that is wrong.
Which method did you use...tape measure?
It is not correct, to be certain, because the variables they used to create the tests we can use are not extremely accurate on a one time basis!
Water displacement is a bit better...but not necessary if you are tracking your own body composition changes.
As I said: They are better used to track changes over time on an ongoing basis.
JR0D08
If you are at 22% and 16 years old, you could easily be using primarily diet and training to get the fat down to the upper teens at first...there are different types of fat mobilizers.
Lipotropics would be the fist stage for you. These help to process the fat in the liver. This would be helpful until you dropped down to about 18%.
Then you would look into a switch to a thermo.
But these are not necessary..they are only aids. It is very possiblt to do it without.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to JR0D08)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:22:26 PM
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JR0D08
Posts: 195
Joined: 3/5/2006
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during the day i am at school, after school i play some hoops. play disc golf, etc. when i work out i train hardcore i do not slack. i work out at 6 or 6 30.
So i should start out by taking Lipotropics??? how soon will i see results?
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:23:36 PM
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JR0D08
Posts: 195
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what brand and where can i get it in stores?
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:33:03 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
Joined: 12/16/2005
From: Texas
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i just think that thermogain is bad for someone in your situation, since you're in school. because this stuff starts working right away and if youre in the middle of class and wired to the edge wanting to do something. you might get in trouble for moving around too much.
and if you take it after school you could stay up too late into the night and not get enough sleep which is what is key to building muscle and loosing fat. im not saying sleep like a cat and take naps all day and sleep for like 10 hours a night, but if you dont get sleep then you will suffer in school.
its a messed up chain reaction, so maybe you shouldnt take a thermo period, maybe taking the lipotropics would be best for you right now. until you reach summer time, which by that point you may not even want to take a thermo, but if you do then it would be a better time for you.
(in reply to JR0D08)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:36:35 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
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From: Texas
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and to dan, i did both the tape and caliper test. i didnt do the 7 point one because i didnt have anyone here to help me with my back and tricep. they both had different answers. let me ask you, on your stats it says that you have 27 pounds of bodyfat. does it look like you have that much. if you are a personal trainer i would think that having that many pounds of bodyfat would not make people want to come up to you for advice. i mean when i think of a personal trainer i think of someone that is real toned or ripped even.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:41:24 PM
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JR0D08
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what brand of a thermogetic should i look at or what exactly should i take both of u no more about this than me. what is the best stuff that works?!
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:44:24 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
Joined: 12/16/2005
From: Texas
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if you are asking me, i would say none. let me look at a couple ideas i have and i will tell you what i come up with. i may not be a personal trainer, but i have researched this type of stuff since i was 14 years old, im now 21.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:51:13 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
Joined: 12/16/2005
From: Texas
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alright what i came up with is maybe taking stacker 2 ephedra free. i have taken this product while i was in college, and it helped with staying focused, and also curbed my appetite. its not one of these products where you will go crazy because you are sitting still. the original stacker 2 would do that to you because of all the ephedra it had in it. and stacker 2 ephedra free will actually help keep your muscles and even aid in building them.
and just found out that stacker has made a thermo as well, but i cant say anything about it because i havent taken it, or heard anything from it.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:51:16 PM
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JR0D08
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alright thanks. ill be waiting to hear them.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 7:57:19 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
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From: Texas
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but if you are dead set on taking a thermo, and it sounds like you are, then i would go with hot rox. because from what i have heard it will give you quite a bit of energy, but you wont be aching to get up and do something. i can personally say that thermogain would be best taken when you are out of school, unless you feel like running around the school during breaks and lunch and after school.
you have to remember, thermogain was specifically designed for athlets. in other words people that base their whole lives on competitions. something like hot rox seems like it was made for the average joe who has a desk job and gets to work out or cardio train after work.
another thing to remember is if you do take a thermogenic, you have to, i mean you seriously have to drink basically a gallon of water every day, and take no other caffine induced products. like cokes or energy drinks. and its always a good idea to ease yourself into the dosage. in other words if it says take 3 a day, take only 1 or 2. for about a week or so.
(in reply to JR0D08)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 8:10:00 PM
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JR0D08
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ok i think i am going to try that and i drink about a gallon a day any ways. what about gatorade, i can drink taht still right?
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 8:18:28 PM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
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From: Texas
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yeah gatorade is always a good thing to drink, it may have a bit of sugar in it, but it also has a lot of electrolytes and vitamins for you. so yeah, just dont go with cokes or energy drinks. and a secret to gatorade, if you shake it up before each drink, it will taste a lot better. like chocolate milk that comes already prepared, shake it up before each drink and it will taste a lot better and be a lot thicker.
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/12/2006 9:51:58 PM
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danmirage
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JR0D08
If you want to lose fat then drop the artificially colored flavored drinks...artificial free gatoraide only for before and during training...and just after..but no other time. Remember, it adds calories to your total calories...
Just drink water. The body uses it in the process to burn fat!
Remember that no matter what you do, if you are eating more calories than you burn in a day...you will not lose weight. However..if you train smart..not overtraing, you can build muscle.
Here is a sample of a lipo...
NOW Lipotropic
This bottle is a 20 day supply. Pretty standard lipotropic.
Hor Rox is a stimulant...as noted it makes you feel the need to move around alot...since moving alot burns calories...
You still need to follow one of two strategies...
Either plan to succeed by planning your training adn meals and knowing what you take in and burn...
Or
Train your whole body, eat well, and do lots of cardio exercise...and hope you are burning about the same calories you take in.
To maintain or put on muscle while you burn fat...your meals have to be every 2-3 hours..and your nutrient levels need to be sufficient.
It is really not too complicated once you get it...read that link I gave, follow the steps, you can be dropping 1-2 pounds of fat a week...
quote:
and to dan, i did both the tape and caliper test. i didnt do the 7 point one because i didnt have anyone here to help me with my back and tricep. they both had different answers.
There is a variance between methods.
I can take any of the tests over and over and I get the same result.
I have been taking BF measuremnts for decades, so I am quite use to it.
Here are are a batch of test results on me a while back...
16.34% -Tape measure 3 location
14.5% - Tape measure 2 location
13.2% - Skin Fold 1 Location
19.4% - Skin Fold 2 Location
9.4% - Skin Fold 3 Location
15.1% - Skin Fold 4 Location
15.9% - Skin Fold 4 Location (actually an aggragate of multiple tests of: 4 folds-15.1%, 1 fold-13.2%, 2 folds-19.4%)
11.27% - Skin Fold 7 Location
16.6% - Bio-electrical Impedance
Wild isn't it.
quote:
let me ask you, on your stats it says that you have 27 pounds of bodyfat. does it look like you have that much. if you are a personal trainer i would think that having that many pounds of bodyfat would not make people want to come up to you for advice. i mean when i think of a personal trainer i think of someone that is real toned or ripped even.
LOL
A comment on the 27 pounds of bodyfat...since the body composition method I use is professional caliper..it is just a reference that I use to make informed adjustments to my taining and diet to keep me gaining 1-2 pounds of lean muscle a week...I may have less..
For health, 15% bodyfat is right in the middle of recommended ranges...though I intend to take it down to 9% later.
And in answer...First..I look plenty toned..you can see the veins in my arms, shoulders, etc. I have a nice 4-pack now....and you can see the rest. Close to the cover model body.
Second, I have nice size and people look at the mass and obvious health I have and that appeals to them.
Third..I am bulking up to 190 now and I am headed to my long term goal of somewhere in the 220s...when I get where I want to be I will get plenty shredded again!
Last, with over 20 years experience in bodybuilding and as a trainer and many other fitness adventures...I also let what I achieve for people do the talking!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to chisum1357)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/13/2006 5:07:44 AM
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JR0D08
Posts: 195
Joined: 3/5/2006
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thank you for all of your help. i appreciate everything. i am going to try hot rox since i heard so much about it, I am going to make sure I burn more calories than I eat. Thanks for your help guys.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/13/2006 7:35:34 AM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
Joined: 12/16/2005
From: Texas
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dan did you take what i said about your 27 pounds of body fat and you being a personal trainer personal? when i told JRODO8 that i have been researching things like supplements and weightlifting and proper ways to loose weight for a really long time, i meant it. the things i have learned are from mags, talking 1 on 1 with people that had been in the game since i was born, trying a lot of different things to see what fitted me (in which case i am still trying to figure out what fits me).
no i am not a certified personal trainer, and i am not dissing you for being one. hell i wanted to be one at some point in my life. and the only reason that i asked if it looked like you had 27 pounds of fat on you, is because to me and most other normal people out there, tests like those lie to us. but its because those tests are meant to be taken a specific way and if you do one little measurment wrong then it throws it all off and if you happen to take a big crap or cheat and purposley do everything you can to loose some extra pounds before you tape and weigh yourself, then you're cheating yourself, and still getting the better results. like having to weigh in before a competition or something.
what i was trying to get at is i am like most of the people in here, i am an amateur or maybe not even that. i am in no way a professional anything when it comes to fitness, not yet anyways, and nor did i ever say i was. and if you were to look up a thread i created called "how fat are you really", you will see what i mean. a lot of people who are on my level of training and thinking on how to go about succeeding with training, told me a lot of things and what they said to me made a lot more sense then what a professional would say to me because as a professional they tend to get into the actual science of the art in fitness and not everyone understands all that.
what i am trying to get at is an average joe asked for some help on loosing weight while maintaining his muscle and even building some more. and as an average joe who has been there numerous times and is still there, i gave him advice that either i have used and succeeded with, or that i am in the process of doing and having success with. everybody is different on how they are built and what works for them, so as an average joe i understand that what worked for me might not work for this person or that one, but it might work for someone else and the person after that.
(in reply to JR0D08)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/13/2006 8:24:51 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
Joined: 11/20/2005
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JR0D08
First...I wish you success in you plan!!!
Keep in mind that Hot Rox is a stimulant..it has caffeine. If it disrupts your sleep then stop using it. It is not recommended for those under 18. Chisum said why.
OK. Now that you chose your stimulant to assist in the fat loss...
quote:
I am going to make sure I burn more calories than I eat
A few questions:
Are you going to make a meal plan? It is just a guide so you know how much is the right amount of food.
Are you going to do resistance training for your whole body?
Did you read about PWOs for sparing muscle during bouts of training?
Keep us posted on how it goes!!!
chisum1357
quote:
dan did you take what i said about your 27 pounds of body fat and you being a personal trainer personal?
No, that was conversational...if it sounded defensive...then I came across wrong! I was simply discussing where I was at the moment.
For the last couple years I was busy running a record label, touring as a musician, and helping raise someone else's kids.
When I decided to get back into peak shape I was at 20% body fat in August, then 18% in September, 16% in October, down to 14% in November...and while doing that I was also gaining muscle.
During fat loss, if you are doing everything right, you can consistently gain .3-.5 pounds of fat a week at the same time.
I changed to a maximum mass gaining plan and I have gained 10 pounds of lean muscle in the last 6 weeks.
I am sharing that I did all this with just diet and exercise.
quote:
what i am trying to get at is an average joe asked for some help on loosing weight while maintaining his muscle and even building some more. and as an average joe who has been there numerous times and is still there, i gave him advice that either i have used and succeeded with, or that i am in the process of doing and having success with. everybody is different on how they are built and what works for them, so as an average joe i understand that what worked for me might not work for this person or that one, but it might work for someone else and the person after that.
Thats excellent! I was not trying to say anything bad about your experience and what you were sharing either. This is a public discussion forum, and as such we all mix our thoughts, experiences, etc together.
I am enjoying reading what you are sharing and what you experienced.
I also agree that many Personal Trainers don't know how to actually talk the everyday person through a significant physique change. They know the general platutudes...eat healthy, be active, progressive resistance, water, multi, lower or raise calorise,...yada yada.
But can they actually manipulate all the factors and identify the weaknesses to get the results the person wants? You know personally that it gets confusing. The body does not change the way you think it will. That is where some of the technical knowledge comes in handy.
Cheers!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to chisum1357)
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RE: Fat and Muscle - 3/13/2006 9:27:24 AM
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chisum1357
Posts: 238
Joined: 12/16/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
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dan, its cool to know that you arent one of those trainers that will hold the fact that they know damn near everything over someones head. i have dealt with trainers like that before which is why i might have come off a little defensive. i enjoy talking to people who know what they are talking about and when they have the knowledge and patience to teach someone else, is when they are indeed a real teacher.
p.s. it is real funny to see what you would think is just some fat out of shape teenager, deck an older, in way better shape, personal trainer at the local gym because he was making fun of the seemingly fat and lazy teen. and the personal trainer getting knocked the hell out.
(in reply to danmirage)
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