RE: For Losing Fat
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 8:01:50 PM
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XSWHCX
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danmirage,
I've read through this topic, the gaining mass topic, and your journal for the last few months and I just want to say thanks for all the information. I have some questions though.
For the Fibrous carbs, can you cook those with the meat to enhance the meat while still counting them as if you ate them seperate? I'm kind of a picky eater and don't like many of the Fibrous carbs on your list by itself.
With that said, do you know any recipe's that I could use to combine Fubrous carbs with chicken, lean steak, or lean ground beef that would make the vegies/meat taste better without making them bad for my goals? Perferably recipes that are grill friendly as I'm going to cook most of my meals on the grill.
I'm trying to lose fat while gaining muscle. I'm going to buy the Caliper you linked to so I can track my gains. I'd love to get to around 8% body fat. I'm probably around 23% (5'8 179.5 pounds, 20 year old male) so it'll be awhile.
Also, is Whole wheat pasta a good source of Starchy carbs (obviously not cooked with butter or anything)?
Thanks for all your help.
< Message edited by XSWHCX -- 5/24/2008 8:30:44 PM >
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 8:46:58 PM
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XSWHCX
Posts: 11
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quote:
They are to be eaten together not seperate. I am not sure what you meant by
"can you cook those with the meat to enhance the meat while still counting them as if you ate them seperate?"
What I meant by that was, you said you're supposed to have a lean meat, a Starchy carb, and a Fubrous carb with every meal. I don't like to eat many of the Fubrous carbs on your list by themselves. For example:
Meal 1:
Chicken
corn
Broccoli
I'd prefer not to do that since Broccoli alone doesn't taste very good to me (I know, I'm picky). I'd rather cook a Fibrous carb WITH my lean meat so that I can eat them together as one dish. The trouble is, I'm not an experienced cook so I don't really know grill-friendly recipes that include Fibrous carbs without adding things that make them bad for fat loss/muscle gain.
quote:
So long as you do not have a wheat sensitivity, Whole wheat pasta is a fine starch, more so if the goal is not fat loss.
What makes a potato or brown rice a better option for startch carbs compared to whole wheat pasta when the goal is fat loss? I want to lower my BF % considerable so from reading your topics, I need to gain muscle first while also losing fat right?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 8:57:11 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
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Chicken
corn
Broccoli
This does not imply that you will eat them seperately, this is simply the foods you might use to build the meal.
Example, here is something I created and often bring with me, prepared and eaten cold or warm.
quote:
Teaspoon olive oil
2 onions cut in thin slices
16 ounces of chicken breast cut in small cubes
1/2 teaspoon turmeric
2 cups quinoa
4 cups chicken stock boiling (when I do not have my own, I use organic, yeast free)
5 green cardamom pods, crushed, seeds removed...
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
4 whole cloves
1/2 teaspoon fenugreek
1 teaspoon salt
3/4 cup peas (can be frozen)
1/2 cup cashews
1/2 cup golden raisins
Red bell pepper strips to top when served
Parsley sprigs to top when served
Using water or olive oil, cook onions and chicken in a saucepan (pot) for 3 minutes.
Add turmeric and quinoa, cook 2 more minutes, stirring constantly
Stir in stock, cardamom seeds, cinnamon, cloves, fenugreek and salt.
Bring to a boil.
Stir well and cover
Cook gently 15 minutes.
Add peas, cashews, raisins.
Fluff with a fork
Cover and cook low/gentle 10 minutes.
Fluff again. Quinoa can absorb some broths very slowly, so it may need even more time
This has:
Chicken
quinoa
Onions/bellpeppers/parsley..
But they are not eaten seperately.
quote:
"What makes a potato or brown rice a better option for startch carbs compared to whole wheat pasta when the goal is fat loss?"
They are whole foods and not processed foods. Pasta is a processed food.
quote:
I want to lower my BF % considerable so from reading your topics, I need to gain muscle first while also losing fat right?
Ideally: Gain muscle first, then plan to lose the fat.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to XSWHCX)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 9:15:40 PM
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XSWHCX
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2008
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I guess I'm going to need to study/get a cookbook. I pretty much have a lot of it down just from reading through your journal/fat loss/muscle gain topics many many times. I'm up about 12-14 hours a day so that translates into 4 meals going by your recommendation of 3-3/12 hrs between meals, any my calorie intake is supposed to be around 2500 (using the calculator link you posted) for the day which leads to 625 a meal correct?
I've been using fitday for awhile now so I'm used to tweaking things to get the proper Fat/protein/carbs %. With that being said, what would you recommend for the first week? Then after the week I can see how my body reacted by using the Caliper and possibly changing it up if I didn't gain muscle/lose fat.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 10:50:19 PM
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XSWHCX
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2008
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Alright sounds good. If going for muscle gain should I start lower than 2500 or is that good for the first week, then tweak depending on how my body responds? Since muscle will burn fat, and I want muscle, I might as well try to put on muscle first. Besides, like you said, if I can find the perfect conbination in my diet I can technically do both.
Out of my total Calories per day what do you recommend the % of Protein/Carbs/fat should be for the first week?
Thanks again for answering all my questions, I do apprieciate it.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 11:11:12 PM
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danmirage
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Joined: 11/20/2005
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We should discuss this in the gaining muscle thread, it has a few slightly different parts to it.
I would start at 2200 the first week.
Make sure you get pre and post workout nutrition.
Make sure you get your meals on time.
Training (lifting) under 45 minutes if possible.
Design a 8, 10 or 12 week progressive program.
Start with the LEAST training to get gains. Gradually increase intensity.
As I mention in the main thread, ratio of calories is based on individual chemistry.
Once you find what you respond to favorable, keep that ratio!
Only manipulate it when losing fat or doing other strategies and then consider it your baseline.
You can take a middle of the road ratio and use the guidelines I give to make decisions about what to tweak.
If you are a light eater and meats sit like a brick in your tummy then go for the lower protein part of that range.
If you enjoy meats and could eat them many times in the day, and they give you energy...go for the higher end.
You can also judge your response to the other two the same...if large carb meals make you sleepy...if high fat meals make you heavy....
Target the fat % on the scale proportionate with the protein. Then inversely proportion the carbs to the protein.
It depends on your preferences and your body chemistry. Everyone IS different in the way they digest and use food. You have to work with it to find what gives you the most energy and power, focus and good feeling.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to XSWHCX)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/24/2008 11:37:13 PM
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XSWHCX
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline
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For my pre/post work out BCAA/protein I usually use Whey Protein and mix it with water. Should I just continue to use that and factor that in to my diet to keep it consistent with the target % of protein I want in my diet? I think I'll try to start with:
Fat 20%
Protein 20%
Carbs 60%
See how my body responds to that after a week.
My Whey protein gives me 5.5 grams of BCAA and 24 grams of protein per serving. Should I split that in half and take 1/2 serving at the beginning and 1/2 at the end, or should I take 1 full serving at the beginning/end? Keep in mind that I get 24 grams of protein per serving which would already give me 48 grams of protein in my diet just from that.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/26/2008 12:16:04 AM
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XSWHCX
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2008
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I just have two quick questions regarding cooking food...I think this is the right topic...hope so anyway.
1. Is it ok to cook a baked potato in the microwave? Or will it somehow ruin the nutrients in it?
2. Are uncle bens ten minute brown rice bowls (heated up in the microwave) ok for my brown rice? Or have you found that it's not the same as regular brown rice cooked on a stove?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/26/2008 7:22:04 PM
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ItaliaCat
Posts: 4
Joined: 4/29/2008
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Thank you thank you thank you
I will start doing the workout --- it will be difficult to do the whole body workout... i am used to doing separate body parts which isnt a big deal
I guess what i am concerned about right now is the amount of food i should be eating and the supplements i should be taking
Should i be eating 6 meals a day still and what should i take pre and post workout
I will not be off the P for probably another year or so... i am slowly weaning off of it but its still there..... that is why i am asking about the supplements if i should take more or less or any at all.....
(in reply to timothy)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/26/2008 8:08:34 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
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Keep the training under an hour...
Meals...well the amount of food depends on the goal.
If you are ready to gain muscle, then you can start where you are - adjsut your meals appropriatly as per the first post - and eat regularly.
Again as per the first post, increase calories when your muscle gains stop. you should see a gradual progression in gains.
Plan a training cycle that runs 8-10 weeks and then take 1-2 weeks off.
Make sure there is progression. You will note that the 3-day has progression and regular variation in the intensity.
After you finish that and take a break, have another program with progression ready.
Track your progress so you know what is happening. Keep a training journal.
While the P is in your system, there is bound to be some water retention that may appear like fat, ...puffiniess.
Make sure to get a variety of fresh vegetables and fruits. Include all the colors you can. Include celantro, garlic and a good amount of parsley.
Perhaps you might consider using Milk thistle for liver support. This is based upon the presence of the P.
You really do not need much in the way of supplements.
Get enough water.
Make your diet as healthy and supportive as possible.
A multivitamin/mineral would be the next stop.
Beyond that...
Fish oil is beneficial for almost everyone.
Creatine has loads of benefits.
I should not think you would need much to start to see ongoing progress!
Go have fun!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to ItaliaCat)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/31/2008 11:13:51 AM
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20FinalKonekt12
Posts: 2
Joined: 5/31/2008
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I am new to these forums and would like to say thanks for the wealth of knowledge in this post.
One quick question however...
When on a day where you are only doing cardio, say after waking, do you still take the whey 30mins prior and then then bcaas right before and after the HIIT session?
(in reply to TIHulk)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 6/5/2008 11:21:18 AM
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20FinalKonekt12
Posts: 2
Joined: 5/31/2008
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thank you.
I began experimenting with fitday.com
I entered what I was to eat today (4meals, 1 protein shake) and got these results:
Protein:39%
Carbs:41%
Fat:19%
Btw I am 6'1 210lbs 15-20% BF. Trying to cut & retain/build muscle
Is there such thing as too much protein?
Looks like i may need to add more brown rice or something to up the carbs a little.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 6/7/2008 12:56:54 AM
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CraziED
Posts: 1
Joined: 6/7/2008
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On the subject of bulking or cutting first, research has shown that if you have more fat to get rid off (not those last few pounds or in preparation for competition), then cutting is of more significance.
Being lean makes it easier to gain muscle, increasing your insulin sensitivity for muscle growth, etc. And when you're lean, you can bulk without far beyond a 22% bf level - which means you're still "lean" during bulking rather than becoming a balloon like what many others experience.
A very good article about the science behind this:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956
(in reply to TIHulk)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 6/8/2008 2:01:56 AM
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XSWHCX
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/24/2008
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Dan, could you tell me what the leanest form of buffalo (bison) meat is? I looked into using it as a lean protein (as I like the beef taste, but beef twice a day gives a little too much fat), but can't figure out what the leanest cut is called. Typically I found Top Sirloin or Tenderloin to be the leanest in beef steak, does it hold true for Buffalo steak as well?
On fitday.com they only have a general listing for Buffalo meat. For 4oz of the meat it has: 112 calories, 1.55 grams of fat, and 23 grams of protein. That seems VERY lean, I guess which cut would that most likely be close to?
Thanks again.
< Message edited by XSWHCX -- 6/8/2008 2:12:01 AM >
(in reply to danmirage)
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