RE: For Losing Fat
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/3/2007 5:28:50 AM
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saternal
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Whey Protein 30 minutes pre and then another immediately after workout. Rmbr 0.1g/lb of bodyweight.
(in reply to DA)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/3/2007 12:38:07 PM
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IwillMakeIt
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Danmirage, I would first like to say thank you for all your helpful tips. But i am having a few questions. Okay so I changed my diet to what you said: a lean protein, starchy carb, and fiburous veggie. I try my best to stay away from things in a box, made by man then dont eat it law. Ok so before i can tell you my problem let me tell you of my make up. Im around 5'9ish 5'10ish, 17 years old, 155 or less and 12 percent body fat.. dont sound to bad right well the only problem is, is that I have an enourmus belly. Okay maybe not that big but still its good size. It has been a week sence i have choosen to do it the right way because before i have done the whole fad diet crap and hey im still stuck here. I eat 6 meals a day and workout at 5 oclock everymoring and each workout consist of about 25-35 mins of hard lifting and im doing the 15min HITT program. Now previously I did all these same things and even use to do around 45 mins of cardio and my deit i think was the problem. I didn't eat over a 1000 calories when i looked at it and i did that for a week trial period. Lost weight and was sorta happy on the 7th day and guess what, I splured. And I mean i went from having 1000 calories perday to well over 5000 for the next few. I know this was wrong but i just wanna get rid of my stomach. So now i have choosen the right way. I was just wondering how long do you think that it will take for my metabolism to speed up and stay that way with the ways i am eating now, no splurging and 6 healthy meals. Oh by the way my stomach sorta hangs and its not big and round like everyone eles's who has weight problem. Mines is sorta flat but hangs and stick out and i was wondering if that was b/c of my previous weight loss in which i was around 210 a year ago and now down to 155. Thanks for all your help.
A true fan
(in reply to TIHulk)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/5/2007 8:59:12 AM
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danmirage
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quote:
GWAR! Man, I love milk, how MUCH of a hindrence is it?
Depends on how serious the cut is...if you are striving to get ready for a show...then milk might be a challenge.
Some people are very reactive to milk....so individuality is a factor as well.
quote:
Should I take a protein shake before and after the workout (30 minutes each) while cutting? If so, besides the whey I have (ON Whey, with BCAAs) what else should I put in it? Any recommendations?
Depends on your toleracne for carbs and your training. You could add Post carbs for better response...as discussed in the other thread...but if you look at the numbers...the carbs can mean a net adding of some fat...so add carbs slowly and watch the response.
_____________________________
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RE: For Losing Fat - 5/5/2007 9:02:28 AM
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danmirage
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IwillMakeIt
Danmirage, I would first like to say thank you for all your helpful tips. But i am having a few questions. Okay so I changed my diet to what you said: a lean protein, starchy carb, and fiburous veggie. I try my best to stay away from things in a box, made by man then dont eat it law. Ok so before i can tell you my problem let me tell you of my make up. Im around 5'9ish 5'10ish, 17 years old, 155 or less and 12 percent body fat.. dont sound to bad right well the only problem is, is that I have an enourmus belly. Okay maybe not that big but still its good size. It has been a week sence i have choosen to do it the right way because before i have done the whole fad diet crap and hey im still stuck here. I eat 6 meals a day and workout at 5 oclock everymoring and each workout consist of about 25-35 mins of hard lifting and im doing the 15min HITT program. Now previously I did all these same things and even use to do around 45 mins of cardio and my deit i think was the problem. I didn't eat over a 1000 calories when i looked at it and i did that for a week trial period. Lost weight and was sorta happy on the 7th day and guess what, I splured. And I mean i went from having 1000 calories perday to well over 5000 for the next few. I know this was wrong but i just wanna get rid of my stomach. So now i have choosen the right way. I was just wondering how long do you think that it will take for my metabolism to speed up and stay that way with the ways i am eating now, no splurging and 6 healthy meals. Oh by the way my stomach sorta hangs and its not big and round like everyone eles's who has weight problem. Mines is sorta flat but hangs and stick out and i was wondering if that was b/c of my previous weight loss in which i was around 210 a year ago and now down to 155. Thanks for all your help.
A true fan
The super low calories probably caused a loss of muscle...then the splurging after starving may have caused a gain in fat...So now, your goal is to add muscle.
210 down to 155...you probably have loose skin. This takes a while to adjust. Just focus on eating the best you can and training.
Now you said this:
quote:
I eat 6 meals a day and workout at 5 oclock everymoring
It is important that you get NUTRITION before you train so you do not lose muscle!!!
Cardio should be either after you train or on another day...
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http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
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Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to IwillMakeIt)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 6/28/2007 12:28:56 PM
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bigkahuna
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danMirage,
Thanks for the great posts here. I have a what if this were you question?
At my fattest I was 360 lbs. Over the last 2 years I have lost 150 lbs. and I am down to 210 lbs. at about 18% BF. I have lost alot of muscle in that time and have loose skin in my pelvic curtain area and not extremely tight in other areas. I am 6'2" and down to 37" waist and have a big frame and I am thinking the lowest in weight I want to go is 190. I would like to get down to 34" waist as well. I am not interested in following bodybuilding routines per say but would just like to lose the proper amount of body fat to make my body look healthy looking kind of like a cross between a swimmer's body with a bit more muscle/tone. I currently lift 2x a week and take a martial arts/kickboxing class 2x week and power walk for about an hour the other days of the week.
I am struggling with how I should take off the rest of my weight vs. the muscle I will eventually have to gain. Not sure if I should just vontinue losing 2 pounds a week with cutting and then gain muscle later? I am afraid of the concept of gaining muscle while losing body fat because I do not know if I can dial the process in enough in order not to gain fat back.
What would you do?
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RE: For Losing Fat - 7/21/2007 7:55:32 PM
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danmirage
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High bodyfat levels CAN impede muscle gains. So if I had over 30% bodyfat, I would train for max muscle gains but eat for fat loss.
It takes a while to switch the chemistry to favor muscle gains vs fat loss. Like turning a moving water craft around.
The KEY for you is to start tracking body fat %, using calipers.
Then you will KNOW what is happening.
There is a learning curve so at first you sort of observe and do not judge,
quote:
I am not interested in following bodybuilding routines per say but would just like to lose the proper amount of body fat to make my body look healthy looking kind of like a cross between a swimmer's body with a bit more muscle/tone. I currently lift 2x a week and take a martial arts/kickboxing class 2x week and power walk for about an hour the other days of the week.
You have done well so far, but now I would say you should consider a bodybuilder type workout. Modified to a combination style training with mixed 9-12 reps and 15-25 reps schemes to help you keep the oxidation going strong.
Train each bodypart at least 2x a week. One in each scheme. Stick to the basic movements, as listed in my top post.
you could also go for the 3-day training. That variation level creates a huge response.
It is KEY that you get the pre and post workout protein and some post workout carbs...no matter what type of training you do.
You want to preserve muscle.
Make sure your healthy fat intake is up to at least 20-30%
< Message edited by danmirage -- 7/21/2007 7:56:44 PM >
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
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Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to bigkahuna)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 7/25/2007 2:23:18 PM
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dutchyblunt
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Ok so i'm really trying to come up with a good all around weight loss nutrition/cardio/workout regimen for my dad.
here's his stats:
59 years old
6'0"
240 pounds
-He's pretty outta shape, definitely got the tire around the waist thing going on.. doesn't have the best knees, and has had heart problems in the past.. But im definitely tryin 110% to help him get in shape..
Diet:
According to Diet Analysis Plus 8.0 he needs 2809cal/day
--Does that sound about right to u guys?
---EDIT: I'm starting to think that 2809cal/day sounds like way to much considering he's overweight. I've been checking out Tom Venuto's calorie counter and entered in his information using the Harris-Benedict Formula and multiplied the BMR by a Sedentary activity level and came up with 2478.96/day.. This sounds more reasonable to me.. If this is the case would i say subtract 500 to get to lets say 2000cal/day? what do u guys think?
---here's the link to the post with Tom Venuto's Calorie Counter:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/How_Many_Calories_Do_You_Need%3a_Calorie_Calculators_-_Includes_Quick_Spreadsheet_Too!/m_45013/tm.htm
He eats a low carb, high protein diet, about 2200cal/day.. but its also high in fat, sodium, and cholesterol.. so that needs to change.
Workout:
-Till now hes been pretty inactive, daily routines n thats about it, and hes been aimlessly goin to the gym about once or twice a week for a couple years
-What he really needs i think is a program that would involve cardio of some sort (not sure what exactly) And a workout program to strengthen his core and support muscles (i.e. Lower back, Abs, Legs, etc..) and im thinkin 3 days a week in the gym if that sounds right..
Question:
My question would be what would be the best kind of workout routine for him to continue to lose weight? What kind of balance between cardio/lifting? What would be the best exercises and sets/reps? and also what kind of diet would you all recommend?
Appreciate any help i can get! Thanks in advance!
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 7/25/2007 2:48:09 PM
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danmirage
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First he sees his physician for a comprehensive physical. They will discuss what is acceptibls as far as diet, training and to get baseline numbers on LDL/HDL, BP, HR, VO2, etc...
Calories required should be based on lean body mass weight.
So determine that as well.
Your measure of changes will be LBM and rechecking states with the doc as often as the doc recommends based on the conditions.
You see, training is potentially fatal. No joke.
No matter what, get Patrially hydrogenated fats out. Lower animal based Saturated fats. Moderate fat intake is fine. Follow the meal guidelines in the initial past.
Lean Protein
Starch carbs
Fibrous carbs
Good Fats.
First, through diet, you want to get his hormones and general condition optimal.
THEN its time to start a systematic training program.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to dutchyblunt)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 7/25/2007 8:04:57 PM
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dutchyblunt
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thanks danmirage i think he should be ok working out but getting checked out first is definitely a good idea.. Ill come back when i have more info!
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RE: For Losing Fat - 1/12/2008 12:28:41 AM
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Flash29
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I'm only 195 pounds, would love to cut but not get down to like 165 or anything. Any suggestions?
GREAT information here!
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RE: For Losing Fat - 1/12/2008 1:12:57 PM
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danmirage
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Just as the first post says...establish a diet and start training with a simple routine and gradually change the routine and diet as needed to achieve the desired results.
30 pounds is quite a bit.
You can be 195 say at 27% bodyfat
Fat=53 pounds
Lean mass = 142 pounds
Train for say 10 months and end up...
190 pounds at 18% bodyfat
Fat= 34
Lean Mass = 156
Loss of 19 pounds FAT
Gain of 14 pounds Muscle
So its not that drastic on the scale.
You may gain muscle first for 12 weeks and go from 195 at 27% FAT to 207 at 22% FAT...or something, then switch to 8 weeks of cutting and drop to 195 again only this time at 19% FAT.
Another 12 weeks of muscle gain and you are 207 again at 19% FAT. Another 8 weeks cutting and you are 190-195 again at 16% FAT.
You just get better and better...
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Flash29)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 1/13/2008 9:14:14 PM
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Flash29
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Really appreciate the info!
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RE: For Losing Fat - 1/30/2008 7:50:59 PM
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Dolman
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I'm in a cycle of bulking right now, but this question is for a friend.
We understand that doing cardio AFTER lifting has great benifits for fat loss, due to glycogen being depleted. But what about cortisol?
My understanding is that if you keep your training around 45 min and with proper nutrition, cortisol should'nt be a problem. But what about after that when your doing your cardio? I've heard cardio can release cortisol.
If so, from this aspect it seems counterproductive. Muscle burns fat, but cortisol keeping muscles from getting bigger keeps you from burning as much fat 
Thanks!
(in reply to Flash29)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 1/31/2008 7:43:00 AM
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Dolman
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Yes I do not do any cardio except warm up/cool down.
This info was for a friend who is slightly more on the cutting side. ( Trying to put on some muscle, and burn some fat)
He was concerned that if he did his cardio after a workout, the cortisol would inhibit some of the muscle he's trying to put on.
Since he's trying to put on muscle AND burn fat, is this one of those scenerios where he has to decide which is more important? Or is it simply not a big deal and the cardio afterwards will have little effect on muscle growth?
Thanks
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 2/10/2008 8:49:33 AM
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thewfh
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Dan, just have to say thanks. What a great post. I've got a great base knowledge but needed to be "educated" more on suppliments. My diet was squeaky clean precontest but I've since relaxed. Now, I'm wanting to cut a little ( too much fat gain,oops ) and I'm re-evaluating my supplimentation. I believe diet is everything and you should get most of your nutrition/protein from it. With that said, the only supplimetation I do is w/ flaxseed oil, CLA, and Acetyl-L Cartinine. Only taken once a day. I recently stopped L-Glutamine b/c of conflicting studies showing no real benefit from it. My whey protein has a good AA mix, including the BCAA's. I just haven't read or heard of anyone using it. Maximum Protein. I love it...best tasting one I've come across. It's a mix of micro filtered whey and ultra filtered whey isolate.
So, my question, I guess is...as a woman into figure competitons, am I on the right track suppliment-wise, or not taking enough Flaxseed or CLA or am I missing the boat w/ eliminating L-Glutamine?
Thanks for all the info so far...and sorry if I missed a post answering any of my questions...
_____________________________
Sleep, eat, workout....repeat as needed.
Short term goal: 15%
Currently: 14.5%
Starting: 17.8%
Goal met!
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 2/10/2008 10:07:29 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6292
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I agree. Supplements are the extra. But as hard as you train, the extra is what you want.
The protein is fine. Though I don't like the artificial ingredients...
Ingredients
Whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate, cocoa, calcium caseinate, maltodextrin, sunflower oil, garcinia, natural chocolate flavor, xanthan gum, conjugated linoleic acid, sodium caseinate, sucralose, mono & diglycerides, natural tocopherols, silicon dioxide.
They snuck in the garcinia! (Appetite supression)
I prefer fish oil (EPA/DHA) to flax oil for the essential oils and Italianangel prefers udos 3-6-9 oils.
I don't really see a reason for CLA. It has no special properties.
ALC is dose dependant. 3000 mg a day.
That would be 2x 1500 a day.
If you are cutting, L-glutamine has a few pottential benefits...to control cortisol. In a research study it was shown that L-Glutamine directly prevents the cortisol-induced degradation of muscle proteins.
You might consider creatine. It is systemic, meaning though you already store it in your body, supplementation encourages the body to store more. You take it ongoing and over 4-6 weeks your body gradually raises the ceiling. This can help with more intense training.
I assume you take a multi? How about an antioxidant?
You might consider L-theanine 2x100mg a day for more body stress relief (lower cortisol)...1 shortly after you train.
I hope I answered your questions.
Good luck!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to thewfh)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 2/10/2008 12:26:17 PM
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thewfh
Posts: 165
Joined: 7/17/2007
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Ingredients
Whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate, cocoa, calcium caseinate, maltodextrin, sunflower oil, garcinia, natural chocolate flavor, xanthan gum, conjugated linoleic acid, sodium caseinate, sucralose, mono & diglycerides, natural tocopherols, silicon dioxide.
I'm not sure we're looking at the same protein. Here's what's listed on the can; Blend of Cross flow Utlrafiltered whey protein concentrate and cross flow mircrofiltered whey protein isolate, glutamine peptides, taurine, vitamin and mineral blend (potassium chloride, calciun phosphate, magnesiun oxide, alpha tocopherol acetate, ascorbic acid, ferrous fumarate, niacinamide, zinc oxide, magganese copper sulfate, vit D3, pyridoxine hydrochloride, chromiun polynicotnate, riboflivin, thiamine hydrochlor-ide, vit B12, folic acid, sodiun molybdate, chromium chloride, biotin, potassiun Iodide, sodium selenate.) Natural and artificial flavors, acesulfame potassium.
I see "artificial flavor" but not the other stuff. Energie Nutrition is the company... Not a great website.
Oh yeah...got the multi for women since I'm prone to anemia. I'll look back into glutamine for post-workout. Guys at Nutrisport like it for aid in recovery. I can understand preventing loss but not giving great gains. Creatine....I've been looking at it. I don't need any real size, though. I'm 5'2" and can put on muscle if I look at a weight cross-eyed. ( I can also put on fat looking at a doughnut!) I guess I always thought creatine would be a better product to use if you want muscle size growth. Also, would the added creatine inhibit your body's own creatine production? Your body's used to producing "x" amount. Suddenly, there's more creatine being introduced. I would think your body, thinking it's got enough, will reduce it's own creatine production...... Thoughts?
_____________________________
Sleep, eat, workout....repeat as needed.
Short term goal: 15%
Currently: 14.5%
Starting: 17.8%
Goal met!
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Losing Fat - 2/10/2008 1:35:15 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6292
Joined: 11/20/2005
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Ah, ok I had the wrong product. Same name.
artificial flavors, acesulfame potassium
I don't like to see those.
Whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate is really what you have. Thats fine.
quote:
I would think your body, thinking it's got enough, will reduce it's own creatine production...... Thoughts?
Creatine supplementation is the same as eating more steak. The creatine stores rise because you are eating more. Vegetarians typically have very low...
Anyway the effect is the opposit as you describe. Creatine is part of an essential energy pathway in the body. If you get more in your diet or supplementally..you store more. If you stop supplementing, the storage returns to baseline based on your diet.
If you never have used creatine, you might try it...give yourself 30 days to notice a change in your training. You also store more water in the muscle with the CM so it seems you are bigger...but when you stop after 4-6 weeks that dissipates...so, time it around your shows.
You don't need it. I was just mentioning it.
I know you have to keep the balance between fit and muscular!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to thewfh)
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