RE: For Gaining Mass
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 3/2/2008 4:08:20 AM
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grantoiz
Posts: 865
Joined: 6/17/2006
From: cheshire, england
Status: offline
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hey dan, i got back from a travelling adventure aprox 5 weeks ago now,, during that time i dropped down to 182 from 190. lifts went down quite alot... bench down from 310 to 275, barball rows down to 200 * 6 for working sets from 230, squats didnt change to much but still i lost alot of strengh.
anyway since ive got back ive been bulking up, and lifts are almost higher than ever bench is up to 225* 10, barball row rep range 250 * 6.. so basically im stronger than ever.. however ive only gained 5 pounds since coming back,, and quite alot of this i believe is fat.. 0.75 inche increase to waist, and generally looking less defined than before!!
so why am i gaining strength but not much muscle? i tend to acumalate fat round my hips which i hate!! so im really down about gaining the fat..
my diet generally looks like this.. my job varies but is generally very labour intensive lots of lifting etc..
6.30 am protein shake+milk and bowl of porridge
10.00 am tuna sandwich or chicken wrap.. usually with flap jack
1 pm salmon sandwich
3.45 another sandwich uaully chicken turkey or fish
5.45 pm beef vegatables or chicken,,, or spagetti etc general tea foods.
8. 00 pm pre workout whey shake + bananna or apple
9. 15 pm finish workout shake have another protein shake plus small carb source bread etc usually 2 slices
10.15 bedtime..
well thats my diet maybe ive noticed not enough good fats.. but still if i can gain strength from the diet why not muslce..?
i live on my own im only 19,, so im usually quite straped for cash so i cant afford lots of expensive steaks etc..
my routines the max-ot routine has been generally for the past 12 months.. (worked great for strengh)..
thanks any input aprechiated
_____________________________
height 5'9 weight 205 lbs b.f 17
bench press july 08: 255 *9
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wGZ-F7r2SNs
old bench video 245 * 10
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3633862719544729670
BENCH PRESS NEW EST MAX 330 LBS
deadlift : 485lbs
yates rows : 265 * 9
close grip bench press : 255 * 5
squat : 365 ! :@
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 3/2/2008 9:26:14 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
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The first thing to note is strength and muscle gains are not really related.
Strength is a neural adaptation to increased loads and muscle is a physical adaptation to new work demands in a certain range.
Second, it looks like you need to add vegetables (or fruit) to every meal.
Also I note you train at night, which can have some interesting repercussions.
It is better to train than not.
If you sleep fine then that is good.
Third, your training is strength oriented and needs to be varied.
You know what strength athletes look like.
If you want more muscle, train with a different program.
Max-ot has specific instructions as to how much to use it.
OT stands for over training. Perhaps you need to back off and do hypertrophy training!
Try the 3-day program in the main post for a change.
Read the entire description.
Other factors can also play in to this.
Number of calories, nutrient ratios, rest, stress, water...
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to grantoiz)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 3/5/2008 3:54:25 PM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
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Just to report back on a few things:
I still have the stomache pains, just as bad as before.
I've found that I almost always get them from my pre/post workout nutrition, so I've dropped the whey and grapes, and this has helped. (Although now I'm not replenishing anything! ) and I still get pains throughout the day.
I did a little reading online and found that sometimes stomach aches can come from excess gas. Well I have noticed ever since eating healthier I have more gas, and especially now that I'm eating 4000 calories.
But my question is, how do I really lower my fiber? I eat 55% Carbs, and it seems almost ALL good carb sources have fiber in them. ( Potatoes, rice, oatmeal, fruits, veggies)
And along with lowering my fiber, is it worth my time and money to give over the counter remedies a try? ( Gas-x, et.c)
This is about my last attempt before I just go and see a doctor. Although I'm worried that will result in costly tests that may or may not find anything.
Thanks Dan
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 3/6/2008 10:09:18 AM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
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No, no other supplements.
You may be right, I'm looking over the last few days at my fiber intake and its around 40-45. I'll drop about 10 a day and see how I feel.
It's funny, it almost seems like I have to eat a little bit less healthy!
Thanks!
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 3/11/2008 9:11:41 AM
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Berganator
Posts: 343
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
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Trainer Chad Waterbury has proposed a set/rep volume of 24-50 for each body part during each session for hypertrophy training. For instance 8 sets x 3 reps would be a set/rep volume of 24.
I've been training for more than 6 months. So this means that no longer will I see great results from the 9-12 rep range, and I should change to 8 sets of 3 reps? Is the rest for that 30-60 sec or is it 2-5 min? I dont see how 8 sets of 3 reps can create an increase in hypertrophy... Please let me know if I should try this?
Also I realized I've been eating about 40-50% protein, 40% carb and 10-20% fat I want to try doing the 70% carb. I eat around 3800 calories daily so should I gradually bump it up to 50, 60, 70... Or is it okay to go straight to 70 and reduce protein to 15% and fat to 15% ? Thanks in advance.
Oh and the reason I dont eat much carbs is because I have trouble consuming a large amount per meal... It seems to be a lot easier for my body to take in protein for calories instead. However I obviously dont want my body to use protein for energy. Any ideas to make taking in carbs easier?
< Message edited by Berganator -- 3/11/2008 9:22:18 AM >
(in reply to claus)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 3/11/2008 9:28:53 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
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The goal is to design PROGRESSION for ongoing results, not to follow general rules blindly.
By introducing work that you are unnaccustomed to you create adaptation.
Adaptation = growth
quote:
So this means that no longer will I see great results from the 9-12 rep range
It would be good to vary training modalities frequently. But you can always cycle through different training variations and 9-12 reps will be one, and when you switch from say 5 sets of 5 to 3-4 sets of 9-12...THAT will be a progression and you will see growth if all other factors are optimally in play.
9-12 reps comes in so many different flavors that even staying with that rep range you can keep things fresh with pyramids, with supersets, with drop sets, with pre-exhaust, with various compound lifts, with different rep speeds, acceleratons, decelerations, with different rest protocols....etc, etc, etc
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Berganator)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 4/17/2008 3:27:39 PM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
You know what is said about too much of a good thing...
It is not really healty to eat too much fiber (over 35 grams).
It interferes with absorption of vital nutrients and, as you have noted...is unpleasant.
Drop to 30 and see if you don't feel better over the following 7 days...it won't be immediate...you have to get rid of the fiber in your gut!
Just to report back Dan- I've scaled back the fiber and kept the fat around 30% (not too much higher) and this seems to have done the trick!
BUT- I still get stomach discomfort after I take my protein. It's ON's 'natural' whey, which isn't supposed to have any art. sweeteners or anything. I also had a very tasty fruit beverage the other day that gave me discomfort, and found that in the ingredients is whey protein!
It's weird I'd have this problem, as I've been taking whey for years with no problems. Ever heard of this?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 4/17/2008 6:37:22 PM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
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I just use the normal scoop that comes with it, and I always mix with water. I suppose my biggest fault is maybe not using enough water (probably use a 1 1/2 cup or so)
Nope, have lots of milk with no problems.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 4/18/2008 5:54:15 AM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
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I believe there is 24g protein in each scoop-- and I prefer to take it pre and post with some carbs. (raisins)
But because of the discomfort I've stopped taking it altogether.
BTW I've had it other times and still had discomfort (before bed for example)
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 4/18/2008 2:47:28 PM
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Dolman
Posts: 34
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
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Alright, I'll give that a go- thanks for the info!
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 4/18/2008 4:31:21 PM
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David1991
Posts: 5167
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
Then I believe the issue is osmality in your gut.
When you take a large amount of a powder like that, you can imagine a large amount of, say, chalk going into your gut? The gut is going to try to normalize the fluid concentrations, and this causes some gut discomfort -this happens in many people.
Solution? Smaller diluted doses taken in stages.
You can also create a very diluted drink to sip throughout the workout.
You may get use to and better at the gut thing over time.
ive wondered something about during workout drinks. u said u should wait a little while after a workout to have a PWO shake because ur blood is going towards ur muscles right? so wouldnt that mean it would be better to not have any drink besides water during a workout?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: For Gaining Mass - 4/18/2008 5:02:16 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6023
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ive wondered something about during workout drinks. u said u should wait a little while after a workout to have a PWO shake because ur blood is going towards ur muscles right? so wouldnt that mean it would be better to not have any drink besides water during a workout?
It is a good question.
You will note that I say it must be very diluted.
The reason is that amino acids and/or carbs, especially Branched Chain amino acids and glucose, when taken in a dilute form, can bypass the digestion and move directly into the blood.
This is the goal for nutrients consumed during training:
To get glucose and amino acids in the blood for immediate use without stimulating the need for digestive processes that require blood to come from the working muscles: while you train the blood won't come in any volume needed to carry out essential processes, and then you have absorption issues, etc.
Post workout you have a bolus or large dose of protein and carbs and this activates the digestive process, wanting to take blood from the recovering muscles. If you wait until you have cooled down, the blood is not preferentially all in the working muscle and more is free to carry the nutrients to the muscle where it is needed.
Thus, during workout you can sip a DILUTED protein or BCAA or BCAA/carb depending on your training/tolerances/goals.
It does improve hormone profiles for growth.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to David1991)
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