RE: For Gaining Mass
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
Login  | |
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 10/27/2007 12:05:05 PM
|
|
|
David1991
Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
Of course you want to choose a time when you have the leisure to do it. If you are on a timetable then it sounds like you are doing right.
Carla, a trainer of Olympian level bodybuilders, who is also in the ISSN, says this about the off season to performance date preparation progression...
(Macronutrient Ratios:) Shift from "off season" gaining to baseline in preparation for your appearance... Off seasonPersonalized Macronutrient Ratios that optimize growth (as discussed in my gaining mass thread) Baseline:
30% protein, 50% carbs, 20% fat Then adjust ratios to accelerate fat loss:
40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat Finally, maximize fat loss:
50% protein, 20-30% carbs, 20-30% fats Shift to off season... or, if another appearance is looming, baseline and cycle back. Why return to baseline and cycle? Because the body becomes acclimated to the cutting and becomes less efficient, even becoming resistant to losing fat. Cycle to maintain the progress.
see this is why i love reading ur posts, always full of useful info. lol
well im doing carb cycling right now to lose fat, i was on keto but switched off it due to it causing acne and oily skin. like i said i dont have the time to throw an 8 week or any amount of weeks bulk but i think the cycling of carbs should help.
o dan quick questions. im like 99% sure i know the answer but anyway.....this week i lost only like 1/16in. around my waist but this was the week i switched from keto to carb cycling and according to the measurements i gained like 1.6lb. of muscle and lost .25lb. of fat. thats pretty much all water weight right?
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/12/2008 9:27:41 AM
|
|
|
Dolman
Posts: 38
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
|
After having very minimal gains with bulking last year, I've taken the last ~3 weeks off and have been on leaning program.
I have started to each much healthier.
I use fitday.
I'm 6'3" about 175 lbs and my TDEE is around 2800.
The last 3 weeks of leaning I have stuck to 2300 cal a day, with a ratio of 25% protein, 25% fats, and 50% Carbs.
I have lost around 9 lbs.
I have started to track body compostion with calipers and circ. measurements, and weigh myself every couple of days.
From my first caliper measurement, I am around 7.5% BF right now and don't want to loose any more weight.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now, I'm ready to really buckle down and bulk this year. My goal is to gain around 40 pounds in 40 weeks and keep my bodyfat low (~12%?)
The first thing I'm going to do is take a week off from lifting and raise the carbs and lower the protein in my diet. 15% Protein/ 25-30% fats/ 55-60% Carbs
This should get my body to start using Carbs as the primary energy source and allow the protein to be used for growth.
After that week I will resume lifting and switch my rep ranges to something in the 5-6 range. (All last year I did 8-10 reps, and while cutting I switched to 15-20)
After 2-3 weeks I will switch my rep ranges to the 9-12 range, and then 15-20 for 2-3 weeks and start all over again.
My nutrition while bulking-------
I will continue to eat 5-6 meals a day, and raise my calories to about 2800. I speculate that this will not be enough to stimulate growth for my goals, so if need be I will raise it to about 3200 after a week or two. The great majority of my food comes from whole foods.
My workout while bulking-----
I have an urge to really tweak my workout. I've been using it for a long time, and just have a feeling there may be something better out there for gains.
The excersises I list are the different excersises I may possibly do. I do not do each of them on a given day. I probably do 2 different excersises per bodypart on average)
Monday- arms (Db curls/ BB curls/ Preacher curls for bicep, rope pulldowns/ lying Db extention for tricep, hammer curls and similar for forearms)
Tuesday- legs (Squat, Stiff leg deadlift, calf raises, leg curls, leg extensions)
Wednesday- Chest (Bench, Incline Bench, Db Flys)
Thursday- Back/Shoulders (Bent over rows, Wide grips pulldowns, close grip pulldowns, military press)
I'm not sure I'll have the time to start a journal here and type everything up often but I may try. I am going to really stick to it this year and reach my goal. (go from 175lbs to 215 lbs)
Dan- I've really been studying your posts recently- thanks for all the great information you've shared.
What do you think of this plan?
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/12/2008 1:24:59 PM
|
|
|
danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
and then 15-20 for 2-3 weeks and start all over again.
Use that rep range sparingly when bulking. Say one cycle every month or something.
quote:
15% Protein/ 25-30% fats/ 55-60% Carbs
I will continue to eat 5-6 meals a day, and raise my calories to about 2800.
Careful!!!
Do not raise calories and carbs at the same time you lower protein!
Just make the change in ratio by itself. Start at the 2300 and GRADUALLY raise calories when the muscle gains stop or slow.
Protein has a calorie cose so by dropping protein you ARE increasing available calories!
GRADUALLY raise calories.
quote:
I have an urge to really tweak my workout. I've been using it for a long time, and just have a feeling there may be something better out there for gains.
One of the biggest mistakes for those seeking gains is that they do not switch training variables frequently enough.
quote:
I'm not sure I'll have the time to start a journal here and type everything up often but I may try.
You MUST keep a journal somewhere! So you know what you did, what worked..etc
I don't know what you are switching from in your training but I would prefer hitting each bodypart more frequently when you are in the 9-12 range of reps.
Something else you can use to modulate your routine frequently.
Looking good!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Dolman)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/12/2008 1:55:10 PM
|
|
|
David1991
Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
more frequently? so what rep/set range do u think is good for hitting ur muscles only once a week with?
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/12/2008 2:42:44 PM
|
|
|
Dolman
Posts: 38
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Careful!!!
Do not raise calories and carbs at the same time you lower protein!
Just make the change in ratio by itself. Start at the 2300 and GRADUALLY raise calories when the muscle gains stop or slow.
Protein has a calorie cose so by dropping protein you ARE increasing available calories!
GRADUALLY raise calories.
Ah, good point!
quote:
quote:
I have an urge to really tweak my workout. I've been using it for a long time, and just have a feeling there may be something better out there for gains.
One of the biggest mistakes for those seeking gains is that they do not switch training variables frequently enough.
What I mean is that I have been using this for a long time:
monday-arms
tuesday-legs
wednesday-chest
etc.
I have never tried anything like specific like HST, 5x5, etc. (Honestly some of them seem a little too much to take in right now. I've been pounding my brain with the nutrition side for the last few weeks! :) )
But I will keep my current routine, and do like you suggested with the reps.
Therefore, the main ways in which my routine is varied, is that every week I'll switch up some of the excersises I do for that particular muscle group, and mainly that I'll switch between 5-6 reps and 9-12 reps every couple of weeks. (with the occasional 15-20 thrown in)
Something that has puzzled me for a while- In your mass primer, I'm trying to figure out the difference between STRENGTH, and POWER. Both are around 5 reps with the main difference being the speed it is performed. What are the benefits of each? (especially to someone like me most interested in hypertrophy)
Thanks!
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/12/2008 5:18:20 PM
|
|
|
danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Something that has puzzled me for a while- In your mass primer, I'm trying to figure out the difference between STRENGTH, and POWER. Both are around 5 reps with the main difference being the speed it is performed. What are the benefits of each? (especially to someone like me most interested in hypertrophy)
Strength is the ability to CONTROL a given weight through a range of motion and repetitions.
Power is the ability to ACCELERATE a given weight explosively.
Both have benefits for performance and even for styles of training that give hypertrophy.
quote:
more frequently? so what rep/set range do u think is good for hitting ur muscles only once a week with?
Brutal power or strength style training can take a serious toll and may require as much as 4-7 days between bouts.
Hypertrophy training allows a shorter recovery/adaptation/growth cycle.
Endurance training uses a different faction of muscle and can be performed in between these other types with little conflict.
The main concern is nervous system recovery...train too often, too long, or too hard and you cause the release and circulation of catabolic hormones....also the precursor to overtraining syndrome.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Dolman)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/12/2008 5:22:26 PM
|
|
|
David1991
Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
Dan, jw how did u gain all ur knowledge about bodybuilding? did u take college classes or go to a special school or something?
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/13/2008 6:08:04 AM
|
|
|
David1991
Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
so basically it would take a while to get where you're at? lol well thats pretty respectable all the effort you've put into it. i hope to take some classes in college about nutrition, training, etc... but the only problem is it seems a lot of these classes try to teach overall "health" and not bodybuilding which we know to be different in a lot of aspects
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/13/2008 12:03:08 PM
|
|
|
danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
|
There are often exercise science departments and they often have classes designed specifically for the coaches and trainers.
Keep in mind that you probably can still benefit from the basic nutrition course, but you will grit your teeth all through it because some of the information is...how to say this...it is simply archaic. But to understand a class such as "Ergogenics for athletes", you need to understand the basic mechanisms of vitamins, minerals, and even basic chemistry.
There are a few schools that have amazing classes. Depends where you are and who is near you. At U-Conn the top BB and strength researcher in the world gives classes. In florida and Syracuse they are constantly reaching for more info for the trained athlete.
Start where you are and take steps.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to David1991)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/13/2008 12:49:48 PM
|
|
|
David1991
Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
There are often exercise science departments and they often have classes designed specifically for the coaches and trainers.
Keep in mind that you probably can still benefit from the basic nutrition course, but you will grit your teeth all through it because some of the information is...how to say this...it is simply archaic. But to understand a class such as "Ergogenics for athletes", you need to understand the basic mechanisms of vitamins, minerals, and even basic chemistry.
There are a few schools that have amazing classes. Depends where you are and who is near you. At U-Conn the top BB and strength researcher in the world gives classes. In florida and Syracuse they are constantly reaching for more info for the trained athlete.
Start where you are and take steps.
yea i definitely know what u mean about gritting my teeth through some of it. its not exactly the same but whenever i hear kids talking about nutrition/exercising now i get so annoyed cause what they are saying is usually completely wrong
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/18/2008 5:36:38 PM
|
|
|
Dolman
Posts: 38
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
|
Dan- I have some questions about fruit that I'm having a hard time finding the answers to.
1- Do any fruits fit into the category of being a 'fibrous carb' or 'starchy carb'? Or are they a completely different type of carb?
Take bananas for instance. They are relatively high in carbs, and in my mind (possibly wrong I'll admit) I think of them as a starchy carb. (Fibrous carbs seem to be so low in calories and carbs in general)
Sometimes at work when I don't have the time for a baked potato or rice, I'll substitute a banana/raisins/orange juice/peas etc for my carbs-- and I'd like to know if this is bad practice.
Thanks
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/18/2008 6:29:53 PM
|
|
|
Dolman
Posts: 38
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
|
I'm bulking now, so I'll keep doing what I'm doing 
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/18/2008 6:31:28 PM
|
|
|
David1991
Posts: 8837
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danmirage
Depends on your goal!!!
If you are eating supportive meals as described in the main thread, then fruit can be a fibrous carb.
If you replace starch calories with fibrous carb calories in this setting, that is fine.
It your goal involves fat loss, then this is not the right thing to do.
would it be bad for fat loss due to the sugars in fruit? and why would that make it ok to replace a fibrous carb like brocolli with something like an apple which is higher in carbs/sugar
(in reply to danmirage)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/26/2008 5:24:26 PM
|
|
|
Dolman
Posts: 38
Joined: 7/5/2006
Status: offline
|
Dan,
I don't ever see info on HOW MANY excercises to do.
(For Strength the rep range is 6-8 slow pace/2-3 minute rests/ 3-4 sets per bodypart/ 4-7 days between)
I interpret this as each time you bench, do 3-4 sets. But what about OTHER chest excercises that same day? Is bench alone enough for maximum growth?
These two weeks, I'm strength training
This is what I do (and in this order)
Week 1 Monday -Chest and Tri's
Flat Bench-5/5/5/5
Close Grip Bench- 5/5/5/5
Nautilus Pullover machine(abs and whatnot)-5/5/5/5
Tricep Extension- 5/5/5/5
Week 2 Monday -Chest and Tri's
Incline Bench-5/5/5/5
Tricep Rope Pulldown-5/5/5/5
DB Flys-5/5/5/5
Lying Tricep Extension-5/5/5/5
So as you can see, each training day I do two excercises for chest, and two for triceps.
Is this counterproductive at all (am I possibly overtraining those muscles)?
Thanks
(in reply to David1991)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: For Gaining Mass - 1/26/2008 5:41:29 PM
|
|
|
danmirage
Posts: 6351
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
|
That refers to TOTAL sets PER BODYPART.
First, I will refer you to read this post of mine:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/fb.aspx?m=339561
Next
For muscular Endurance the rep range is 12-25 slow pace/30-90 second rests/ 1-3 sets per bodypart / 1-2 days between
For muscle size the rep range is 9-12 slow- moderate pace/30-60 second rests / 3 -4 sets per bodypart / 4-7 days between
For Strength (vs. power) the rep range is 6-8 slow pace/2-3 minute rests/ 3-4 sets per bodypart/ 4-7 days between
For power the rep range is 1-5 fast/explosive pace /3-5 minute rests/ 4-8 sets per bodypart/ 2-3 days between
Notice that you are more in the high range for POWER than strength?
Notice that with LOWER reps there is a HIGHER number of sets.
You are sort of straddling.
Last. Goal is important. Progression in line with your goal is key!
Since you are talking about a cycle for strength...and you are at the lowest part of that range....I would think about to 4-6 sets.
At first, you might start with 4 sets. 1 exercise. Vary exercises from training to training.
You might then add a set to 5 sets and even switch to 3 sets of exercise 2 and 2 sets of exercise 2.
See that- progression. So that is ONE form of progression.
Others?
You will also be looking to increase weight.
You might start with 2 minutes rests between sets and a progression could be to drop to 90 seconds.
You might change from explosive to slow.
From slow lowering to acceleration in lowering.
All progressions in intensity.
Allways leave room for progression.
ALso I do not know your history so you have to factor in your diet, recovery, stress, rest, etc for the full picture.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Dolman)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Printable Version
