RE: My training - ChazRaz18
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 11:17:04 AM
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Chazz540
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Either of those final numbers looks good to me. I would like 220lbs on lean mass, while sporting reasonable abdominal definition.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 11:34:37 AM
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danmirage
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OK, so look at this another way!
You want to be around 250 at around 10-12% BF.
Now:
250 lbs
25% BF
Fat=62.5
Lean =187.5
Goal:
250 lbs
10-12% BF
Fat=25-30
Lean =220-225
Lean Mass Gain = 63
Fat Loss = 33 pounds
You can take that in segments. I would focus on the GAIN first. then whatever fat is left to lose, drop at the end with a mild cutting.
See, if you lose 30 pounds of fat and then go to bulk up to gain 60 pounds of muscle..the bodies preference after a prolonged caloric deficit is to replace fat stores first...you are going gain back lots of that fat when you start eating in a caloric surplus to gain the muscle.
You are already looking damn good and I would suggest a Muscle gain with mid fat loss as a goal. AS you start to gain muscle..the additional muscle will make losing fat easirt...muscle burns calories for the energy it needs.
It is quite reasonable to gain 1-2 pounds of muscle a week and lose 1/2 to 1 pound of fat a week at the same time. This is all based on your optimal eating and training.
Take it in small bites, like this:
First 2 months:
Muscle gain goal 8 pounds
Fat loss goal 4 pounds.
Finish weight: 254
BF % = 23
Fat = 58
Lean = 196
You may find that your body is more ready to take on muscle and so you can adjust that figure appropriately for the next 2 month cycle. Also you may find your body is eager to drop fat as you go and you can adjust goals appropriately!
When you reach a lean mass of about 225-230 you can go into a toning leaning phase and bring out the abs and such. Then you just maintain!
To manage this you need to lear a few skills
-Body composition monitoring to insure you are on top of changes
-Diet design and manipulation so you are eating the right types and amounts of foods all the time
-Work out manipulation so you are varying your training adequately to insure uninterrupted gains
My 2 cents worth. Could save you time.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 11:40:46 AM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
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Thank you very much, now could outline a diet for me? And perhaps an good calorie intake to build that muscle burn that fat each week?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 11:51:42 AM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
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#1 diet - most important
You need to be eating enough calories so that your body is not in survival mode! EAch person needs what THEY need so diet is very specific.
500 calories over your needs per day will get you +1 pound a week...if you need more, some will likely be fat...so you have to decide what weight you want to gain.
At least 4-6 meals a day!
Go to this post to figure your daily calories if you don't have a clue.
Calories needed per day for various goals <------ link for you to click
At the bottom of the post is a link to a spreadsheet/calculator that you can use...
Use the smallest figure in the range for you...after a week you can adjust. You want muscle growth.
Divide that into 6 equal parts. (2400 calories = 6x400 calories)
Basic meal:
A protein (3 oz Chicken/turkey/beef/soy...)
A vegetable (1/2 cup broccoli/green beans/peppers/ 2 cups salad...)
A carb source (1/2 cup Rice/quinoa/amaranth/oatmeal...sweet potato, potato...)
Sufficient good fat (from the protein and/or Fish oils, omega 3 oils, flax oils, nuts..)
You are looking for:
Protein-15-30%,
carbohydrates-40-75%,
fat-10-30%
...of your total calories
The ideal range of protein for growth is .6-.9 grams per pound of body weight.
If you are a light eater and meats sit like a brick in your tummy then go for the lower part of that range.
If you enjoy meats and could eat them many times in the day, and they give you energy...go for the higher end.
Target the fat % on the scale proportionate with the protein. Then inversely proportion the carbs to the protein.
Foods should be fresh whole foods. Carbs should be from veggies and non processed starches (rice, baked sweet potato, potato, quinoa, amaranth...) with some fruits. Drop most processed sugars from your diet.
It depends on your preferences and your body chemistry. Everyone IS different in the way they digest and use food. You have to work with it to find what gives you the most energy and power, focus and good feeling.
Yes, I am speaking from experience as a trainer. I assess clients for where to start their meals, then assign a diet and adjust based upon what we observe. This is what you will do for yourself.
Experiment with different mixes...1 week strict per "experiment"!
I.E. (these are the extremes and represent points in a whole spectrum! They give you ideas of parts of the spectrum to explore)
The moderate protein type=
Protein-20%,
carbohydrates-65%,
fat-15%
High Protein type=
Protein-30%,
carbohydrates-40%,
fat-30%
High Carb type=
Protein-15%,
carbohydrates-75%,
fat-10%
Select the foods you will eat for each meal
i.e.
Meal 1
Oatmeal
Eggs
raisins
Almonds
Flax
Meal 2
Bread
Turkey
Lettuce
Apple
Meal 3
Rice
Chicken
Grean Beans
Grapes
Meal 4
Quinoa
Beef
Carrots and celery
(Meal 5)
Pre work out carbs+protein/BCAA/EAA
Post Work out carbs+protein/BCAA/EAA
Meal 6
Baked Sweet Potato
Turkey
Broccoli
Use fitday.com to plan meals to get what you need not just as a meal journal...it is free! Use fitday.com as a MEAL PLANNER..not just a journal. To help you tweak your diet into different mixes!
Go over each meal and get it to match what you want. Over time design more meals that fit your target meal so you have more and more choices!
Later, I will show you how to go a week eating this and determine if it really works or if you need more/less etc.
Post any questions, comments etc..and post what you determine is your caloric starting point.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Chazz540)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 12:06:07 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
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God that's a little intimidating. Uhm right well the training part is easy for me to comprehend but sorting out my diet seems like it is going to be difficult.
I do love meat, I could eat met all day long and have seconds. lol If it's dead I'll eat it. lol
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 12:16:05 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
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I don't even know how to begin planning my meals lol. So I go to fitday.com and put in the I am going to eat the following day so I can work out the right percentages?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 12:25:24 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
Joined: 11/20/2005
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First your caloric goal
2nd your pre/carb/fat%s
3rd your per meal calories goal
then a rough menu plan like the one I put in the post
THEN go to fitday and see meal by meal if they meet your %s and caloric need
Then put em all together!
Basically you are going to create a meal plan that you will eat by for the whole week. On paper first. Like the sample one I put up there. Then use fitday to see
If dininer is different then that is all you need to figure out.
You are trying to get control of all the factors that determine fat loss and muscle gain..this means YOU need to determine the food that you eat.
Once you get it and once you reach your goals ..you only do this to make other changes..but for now you need to learn how to control this.
What do you eat for your meals? Start there. Maybe you will find they have too much fat or carbs or too much protein..then you tweak em!
Read the direction I gave....I also gave a menu sample...
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 1:14:05 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
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I don't have excel, but I'll try finding something similar online.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 1:24:23 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
Joined: 11/20/2005
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You can just estimate 15*250=3750
So that is about right..
Now you want to go from where you are now to gradually eating that..ideally.
The way to do that is...If you are eating 2000 now, create a meal plan with the 6 small meals as I showed.
Then start adding 500 calories a week until you are Gaining 1 pound of muscle a week. Do this simply by increasing the protion size of the meals.
Example:
Meal 3
Rice 1/4 cup
Chicken 3 ounces
Grean Beans 1/4 cup
Grapes 1/4 cup
Next week
Rice 1/2 cup
Chicken 4 ounces
Grean Beans 1/4 cup
Grapes 1/4 cup
Next Week
Rice 3/4 cup
Chicken 4 ounces
Grean Beans 1/2 cup
Grapes 1/4 cup
Next week
Rice 1-1/4 cup
Chicken 5 ounces
Grean Beans 3/4 cup
Grapes 1/2 cup
I am just guessing on the calories there and I am sure I did not get 500 inper change...but using fit day, you could do 1 meal at a time and get it right. each week you plan the meals for next week..then make sure you have what you need from the market.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to ChazRaz18)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 1:47:29 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
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I think right now I am eating 2000-2600 calories.
OK so I'll be bulking but also burning fat...Shuould I do my 3 days of weight and 2 - 3 days of cardio?
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 1:56:28 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
Joined: 11/20/2005
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The goal is to just find the caloric level where your calories are sufficient to stimulate and allow new muscle growth.
That means you are trying to eat slightly MORE calories than you burn!
You might start with a plan for 2800 and go a week with that. You should be measuring all your food to be sure you are eating what you plan...if you post your meal plan here I can help you dial that in.
quote:
Shuould I do my 2 - 3 days of cardio?
So, cardio should be at a minimum - 20 minutes low intensity 3x a week at the most, if at all.
You should be warming up for your training with 10 minutes of low intensity and again after you train with 5 minutes of low intensity followed by stretching.
quote:
Shuould I do my 3 days of weight ?
Since you have only been training again since Dec...so 3 months..your training can be lower volume and focus on quality and intnsity...
What does your work out look like..you want to be sure to keep the body appropriatly stimulated!
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Chazz540)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 2:28:38 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
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To be honest I have been doing a lot of chopping and changin with my diet he last few weeks, I just can't figure out what the hell to do. I was trying to eat rediculous amounts of clean foods for about a month, 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, 800-900 grams of carbohydrates, 100 grams of fat, and 4500-5000 calories a day. I did that for a month with 1 muscle group per day 12 sets per muscle group usually 10 reps 12-15 on larger leg muscles, virtually no cardio vascular in the gym and I didn't gain a pound....
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 2:43:20 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
Joined: 11/20/2005
Status: offline
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You were probably doing great!
Since you were not monitoring body coposition you don't really know what happened....
See:
250 lbs
25% BF
Fat=62.5
Lean =187.5
and
250 lbs
22% BF
Fat=55
Lean=195
No change in weight..but you are slowly losing fat and gaining muscle...at 2 pounds a week each...the same pace!
So, you were frustrated because you don't know what was happening. You thought nothing was happening. Get the calipers and that will never happen again.
quote:
1 muscle group per day 12 sets per muscle group usually 10 reps
Though..you were not necessarily training properly. This excessive volume is NOT optimal. The ideal is to do the least work to get the most response from the body. There does not sound like there was variation in the training either.
Was your lifting 40 mintes long or shorter? That is another factor.
Read this training article...it describes using many varaibles to keep the body unaccustomed to the training to keep growth happening..
3 day per week training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-073-training
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Chazz540)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 2:47:02 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
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My lifting went between 45 mintues to an hour including rest periods.
(in reply to danmirage)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 2:49:33 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
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It seems that now that I am trying to refine my workout regime and diet to get really serious about bodybuilding, everything has now become so much more complicated. lol
I am reading a lot of different things and the more I read the more I realize I am caught in a newbies nightmare. bugger....
(in reply to Chazz540)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 2:55:07 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
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OK since this is the only clear thing in my head right now I want to get it out of the way before it become comfusing!
SUPPLEMENTATION
I am going to eat three solid food meals per day
I am going to supplement those meals with three protein shakes in between those meals.
Should I use a regular combination protein powder of whey, casien and egg protein or a weight gainer like Maximuscle cyclone?
ALSO
Along with that I want to use a multivitamin supplement like animal pak and a creatine supplement, but that's it, I am just getting myself more confused with other supplements.
(in reply to Chazz540)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/2/2006 5:04:46 PM
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danmirage
Posts: 6020
Joined: 11/20/2005
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quote:
My lifting went between 45 mintues to an hour including rest periods.
Excellent.
quote:
It seems that now that I am trying to refine my workout regime and diet to get really serious about bodybuilding, everything has now become so much more complicated.
Well..you are starting an new phase. But the only real issue I see is the learning curve WHICH CAN BE SO DAMN OVERWHELMING!
quote:
I am going to eat three solid food meals per day
I am going to supplement those meals with three protein shakes in between those meals.
Should I use a regular combination protein powder of whey, casien and egg protein or a weight gainer like Maximuscle cyclone?
Since you don't want to gain fat weight I recommend a few things
1) at least 4 whole food meals.
2) In the munu example I gave there is a PWO post and pre workout..that is going to total about 400 calories...and insure you don't lose muscle....take that into consideration.
3) Whatever powder you use should contain no artificial sweeteners of flavors...they can cause fat storage!
4) It should probaby be a gainer with the right mix of protein carbs and fats to help you stay in a surplus...Try something like Champion Nutrition's Heavyweight gainer 1200 (not 900)
quote:
Along with that I want to use a multivitamin supplement like animal pak and a creatine supplement, but that's it, I am just getting myself more confused with other supplements.
SKIP the creatine supplement until your diet is dialed in because the first week will just be a bunch of weight gain from water and you wont know what is going on! Wait until you KNOW how many calories you need to gain. Then start the creatine. Although with that much food....you really won't be at a shortage of creating in the system. So you won't need it reaelly.
_____________________________
My journal:
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_158705/mpage_2/tm.htm
Primers:
Gaining Mass
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111173/mpage_1/tm.htm
Losing Fat
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/m_111175/mpage_1/tm.htm
(in reply to Chazz540)
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RE: My training - ChazRaz18 - 3/3/2006 12:57:25 PM
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Chazz540
Posts: 489
Joined: 1/9/2004
Status: offline
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Thanks. Yeah today I ate- cup of oatmeal made with water and a large roange - small pot of cottage cheese, 2 bananas - 1 carrot, 1 apple, and a large handful of almonds - 6-8 oz of chicken small pot of cottage cheese, 1 small banana - 6-8 oz of chicken 2 slices wholemeal bread 1 pint of skimmed milk - and in 15 minutes I am having a tuna wrap in a multi grain wrap.-
and arounf 5 litres (1 gallon of water)
I am going to maintain a diet somethign like this with a calorie surplus until i can correctly figure out my nutritional needs.
(in reply to danmirage)
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