nitrix/NO2

ok so looking at the main ingrediant in nitrix (as i recall) is
L-arganine alpha-ketoglutarate
 
the main ingrediant in NO2 is
arganine alpha-ketogluterate
 
anyone know the difference?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/arginine.html here is a good article explaining exactly what arganine is. Althou i cant find anything specific about the difference betweenL-arginine and arganine, IMO the L-arganine has some sort of polymer chained to it, similar to a ethyl ester. This is just my thought thou I will search deeper and see if I can find exactly what the "L" is.
 
 

Arginine is an amino acid.  It can be written Argenine or L-Argenine.  In a supplement ingredient list, both refer to the same compound.

Amino acids, the building blocks of proteins, can exist in two mirror-image forms, designated L (levo) for left-handed and D (dextro) for right-handed. All proteins on Earth are composed of amino acids of the L type, allowing a chain of them to fold up nicely into a compact protein.

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

This goes straight to the heart of a HUMUNGOUS pile of confusion (evdent on this board) about the precise contents of BSN's supplement products, and I wish they would do a better job elucidating this information than they currently do.  Once you get past all the B.S. Ronnie Coleman Roid-O-Rama Flash animation crap on their website, it boils down to the following, but you really have to dig deep to find it:

Nitrix = 3g Arginine Alpha Keto Gluterate
CellMass = 3g Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate and 2g Glutamine
NO-XPlode = AKG (quantity is anyone's guess, because they've hidden it in a pile of other vasodilator support comopunds that you'll never even want to understand.  Apparently, BSN thinks this information is too revolutionary to share with you), Creatine (again, no quantity provided -you'll just have to take their word for it, along with the super-duper description of all the other proprietary ways they've reinvented the Creatine wheel), and a truckload of really impressive-sounding glycerol-hydrating polymer chemistry that all boils down to glorified Gatorade, with a stimulant side effect thrown in to make you feel like a 'Roid Monster.

Now, tell me, do you really think BSN is going to put anything more complicated in NO-XPlode than the AKG and Creatine supplements they already sell seperately (Nitrix and CellMass)??  I seriously doubt it.

I'm not wasting my money on NO-XPlode.  Especially not when the company is so terrified to tell you just how superfluous the rest of the formulation is -or worse, buries that info in proprietary industry jargon that no one without a friggin' PhD can decipher.  If you knew it was basically Red Bull with AKG and Creatine, you wouldn't drop $60-80 a bucket for it.

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

Thanks for the clearup on the levo and dextro identification on the compound classifications.
 
I disagree with you however on your breakdown of the rest. They dont give you measurements of the stuff because that is actually what they are patenting, the amount actually contained within the product. And if you look closely everything is broke down as far as what it is. And if you look at yoru post you answered your own question as to what AKG is, here is the discription if you want it. Alpha Keto Glutarate (AKG): AKG is a precursor to glutamine. Unlike straight glutamine, the gut does not recognize AKG. Therefore, more AKG makes it through the digestive system compared to free glutamine. Once in the body, AKG can be converted to glutamine as necessary.

Yeah, I understand the Glutamine synthesis bit.

The point of my rant is that I flat-out don't trust supplement companies who have to hide the nutrition info in proprietary industry jargon.  BSN holds patents on their other formulations, including the AKG quantities in Nitrix -but they still TELL YOU how much basic AKG is in it.  This is the same tactic that got Cybergenics in so much trouble a few years ago.  They were basically repackaging products they already sold seperately, and trying to make them sound like a revolutionary new product.  People got pissed when they found out they were paying twice as much for the same things they could have bought (from the SAME company) and mixed themselves.

I think Nitrix and CellMass are a good enough stack as they are.  I just don't see how adding (yet another) revolutionary carbohydrate/stimulant delivery system to that profile warrants doubling the price.

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

Hey veggeep do you use nitrix and cellmass? What do you think about these products from your experiences. Or shoot me an e mail if you dont mind. I wouldnt mind picking your brain about some of these sups.
stanggt@shaw.ca
Thanks man.

////*Watch for all "new me" coming in March 2007*////

I agree with you 100% vegg. I honestly have seen way better results with just stacking nitrix and cell mass. IMO noxplode is a repackaged supp as you said.

Naw Johnny, not yet at least.  I've been trying to figure out which is the best combination thereof, but I keep running up against BSN's cacophonous hype marketing.

I think I've nailed it down tho -I'm going to go with Nitrix and CellMass starting in April of this year.  I'm already using Creatine (tho monohydrate -not an estherized creatine like in CellMass) and Glutamine, and I like the results.  My hope is that adding a vasodilator like AKG (Nitrix) and switching to a Creatine Esther product will give me better pumps and vascularity right at the start of short-sleeve season, ha ha ha!

I'll keep everyone posted, of course

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

The supp market is sooo confusing. I find it very difficult to figure out all the hype from reality. All these guys screaming about no-xplode and when I look at the product nutrition label its a few common products all mixed together.
I'm just doing whey isolate, bit of glutamine, and creatine. I know the whey and glutamine had helped especially with recovery (big time not hype) and size, but the creatine I am currently taking, meh, not noticing much at all and its been 3 weeks on. I should switch creatine type possibly?!?!?
 
Thanks for any help you can give!! Your one of the few guys that truly knows what your talking (not selling s*it) about and that I trust! Thanks veg

////*Watch for all "new me" coming in March 2007*////

wow this thread really took off today.. but basically i just wanted to know if NITRIX was the same thing as NO2? +/- the delivery system...

Ha ha ha... that tends to happen 

NO2 is a byproduct of your body converting Arginine to Citruline with Nitric Oxide Synthase.  All supplements that promise vaodilatory benefits include Arginine.

Get your geek on here.

So, to answer your question, Nitrix contains the primary amino acid (Arginine) your body uses to create NO2.

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

       
                            Honest and Open
What's In It?
Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 15 1/2 Grams
Servings Per Container: 50
Amount Per Serving:
Calories: 0
Calories from Fat: 0
Total Carbohydrates: 0g
Sugars: 0g
Creatine Ester Fusion™: 4g
-Creatine Ethyl Ester Malate
-Tricreatine Malate
Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (A-AKG): 3g  
Betaine-Anhydrous: 2g
Taurine (Micronized): 2g
Glutamine Fusion™: 1g
-Glutamine-AKG
-N-Acetyl-L-Glutamine
Xpansion Matrix™: 3000mg
Glycocyamine, glucuronolactone, l-citrulline, guanidinopropionic acid, MCT's (medium chain triglycerides), vinpocetine 99%, vincamine 99%, silicon dioxide.
Other Ingredients:
Natural and artificial flavors, sucralose.
Directions: Take one level scoop of Xpand with 16 oz. of water, juice or your favorite beverage 2 times daily, preferably 8 hours apart. For best results take one serving 30 minutes before your workout and one serving 30 minutes before a meal. On non workout days, just take one serving 30 minutes before a meal.   
 
 
Lets see here   
 
NO XPLODE
 
What's In It?
Supplement Facts:

Serving Size: 1 Scoop (20.5g)
Servings Per Container: 40
Amount Per Serving:
Calories: 36
-Calories From Fat: 0
Total Fat: 0g
-Saturated Fat: 0g
Cholesterol: 0mg
Sodium: 150mg
Potassium: 75mg
Total Carbohydrates: 9g
-Sugars: 0g
Protein: 0g
Vitamin B6: 25mg
-(Pyridoxine HCL)
Vitamin B12: 120mcg
-(Cyanocobalamine)
Folic Acid: 400mcg
Magnesium: 360mg
Phosphorus: 500mg
Calcium: 75mg
NO-Xplode Proprietary Blend: 20,500mg
(NO-Xplode Contains a patent pending nutrient suspension matrix & Efforsorb Delivery System)
NO Meta-Fusion (patent pending)
(L-arginine AKG, Citral-M (citrulline malate), L-citrulline AKG, L-histidine AKG, RC-NOS (rutacarpine 95%), gynostemma pentaphyllum (95% gypenosides), NAD (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide)
Muscle Volumizing Creatine Matrix (patent pending)
2CM (dicreatine malate), Betapure (trimethylglycine), Glycovol (glycocyamine), GuaniPro (guanidino proplonic acid), Cinnulin PF (aqueous cinnamon extract), keto-isocaproate potassium
Ener-Tropic Xplosion (patent pending)
L-tyrosine, taurine, Endurlac (glucuronolactone), l-tyrosine AKG, methylxanthines (caffeine), MCT's (medium chain triglycerides), vinpocetine 99%, vincamine 99%, vinburnine 99%
Phospho-Electrolyte Replacer
Calcium phosphate, magnesium oxide, potassium phosphate, sodium phosphate
Glycerol Hydrating Polymers
Potassium glycerophosphate, magnesium glycerophosphate, glycerola stearate
Other Ingredients: Maltodextrine, citric acid, sodium bicarbonate, lemon juice powder, malic acid, potassium citrate, natural and artificial flavors, aspartame, acesulfame potassium, FD&C Red 40, FD&C Blue 1.
Directions: Recommended Use On Training Days:
As a dietary supplement, take 2-3 scoops with 8-12 oz. of cold water or any beverage of your choice 30-45 minutes prior to your workout (on an empty stomach). To achieve maximum results, avoid eating a meal or drinking a protein shake within an hour of taking NO-Xplode.
Recommended Use On Non-Training Days:
As a dietary supplement, take 1 scoop with 4-8 oz. of cold water or any beverage of your choice (on an empty stomach). To achieve maximum results, avoid eating a meal or drinking a protein shake within an hour of taking NO-Xplode.
 
Besides all the Patent this and Patent that, what does this stuff really have that is so great?  I mean the Xpand product above seems to have it going on.   I mean are BSN such a great supplement company they can skimp on all the proven stuff and give it low doses or not even put the amount on the label and just depend on everything that is going to have a patent next to it??  

NO-Xplode Proprietary Blend: 20,500mg
(NO-Xplode Contains a patent pending nutrient suspension matrix & Efforsorb Delivery System)
NO Meta-Fusion (patent pending)
(L-arginine AKG, Citral-M (citrulline malate), L-citrulline AKG, L-histidine AKG, RC-NOS (rutacarpine 95%), gynostemma pentaphyllum (95% gypenosides), NAD (nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide)
Muscle Volumizing Creatine Matrix (patent pending)
2CM (dicreatine malate), Betapure (trimethylglycine), Glycovol (glycocyamine), GuaniPro (guanidino proplonic acid), Cinnulin PF (aqueous cinnamon extract), keto-isocaproate potassium
Ener-Tropic Xplosion (patent pending)
L-tyrosine, taurine, Endurlac (glucuronolactone), l-tyrosine AKG, methylxanthines (caffeine), MCT's (medium chain triglycerides), vinpocetine 99%, vincamine 99%, vinburnine 99%
Phospho-Electrolyte Replacer
Calcium phosphate, magnesium oxide, potassium phosphate, sodium phosphate
Glycerol Hydrating Polymers
Potassium glycerophosphate, magnesium glycerophosphate, glycerola stearate
Other Ingredients: Maltodextrine, citric acid, sodium bicarbonate, lemon juice powder, malic acid, potassium citrate, natural and artificial flavors, aspartame, acesulfame potassium, FD&C Red 40, FD&C Blue 1.

This is Precisely what I'm talking about.  I've highlighted the relevant ingredients in above, but notice how BSN doesn't tell you the dosage -like Dymatize and everyone else does.  That's basically AKG (NO2 "Fuel"), and Estherized Creatine.  The rest is a bunch of fictitious names for an electrolite/carbohydrate replacement drink.  Add in a whopping dose of B-Complex vitamins and caffeine, and you get a stimulant effect.

I'm sticking with the Nitrix/Cellmass stack, or a comparable analogue.  At least CellMass includes Glutamine.

Yes, that's me in my avatar, and NO, I don't look like that today. That was taken back in Jan '07, and I lost most of that progress when I slacked off last year. I'm on my way back, tho, and I'm using that photo for inspiration.

just so we're on the same page..by NO2 i mean the product NO2 by MRI.
 
nitrix and NO2 have the same active ingrediant except nitrix is
L-arginine alpha-ketogluerate  where as NO2 is arganine alpha-ketogluterate.
 
now i understand what you were trying to explain by the "L" designator.. but since, like you said they can exist in mirror image forms im going to assume they're the same product you just pay 80 bucks for NO2 and about 50 or so for the nitrix.

I consumed 3 bottles of MRI's NO2 before I switched to Nitrix. Though they worked well for me, I have not noticed a difference between them. Soon I will be switching to SAN's Vault to save a little more money($70/mo).

26yo, 5'9", 157 lbs.