ARE THERE ANY FAT LOSS SUPPLEMENTS THAT DONT SUCK?

I know the basics of building muscle and optimum health and that is:

-Eat more complex carbs (fruits/vegetables/oats)
-Lean Meats and High Protein (chicken, turkey, whey protein)
-Weight Lifting Exercises and Cardio

Now the above is a general recipe for natural progressive fat loss and muscle building, however I am looking for something that will ACCELERATE such process, hence I am looking for a fat loss supplement that WORKS.

NOTE: I WILL NOT TAKE CAFFIENE, BECAUSE IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO QUIT THAT STUFF

I have been looking at several fat loss supplements and I have came to several conclusions:

-The most effective fat loss combo is the caffeine/ephedra combination. However, ephedra has been banned.

-Most fat loss supplements contain a combination of green tea and caffeine and overprice it. You can buy caffeine pills and green tea capsules separately and save a whole chunk of money.

-Other fat losses contain weird herbs that suppress your appetite. I don’t want to suppress my appetite because I need to eat more to build rock solid muscle.

____________________________________________________
-I have found a save alternative that increases fat loss by increase thyroid hormone levels, that is called forskolin (I just bought it so I wont know the results for quite some time)

-The other alternative is a chemical called Octopamine/Norsynephrine, but studies have shown that is an extremely weak fat burner, or no fat burning properties at all.

-Some fat loss supplements contain Yohimbe, so maybe I should try that?!

I need your suggestions on a supplement that will NOT SUPRESS my appetite, BURN FAT, and DOES NOT CONTAIN CAFFIENE.

If you have tried it yourself, please let me know how it went for you.
 
Has anyone tried SNYTRAX'S BETA 3 FAT LOSS SUPPLEMENT?

Your post has some inherent conflicts in it.  Let me give you some food for thought.
 
First, you need to determine your *primary* goal.  What is it you wish to achieve (first)?  To lose unwanted fat?  To gain muscle?  Please don't say both; while you may be able to do both, especially if you are a beginner or are particularly overweight, you still need a PRIMARY objective.
 
Now, if you decide that fat loss is the primary objective, a little appetite suppression is a good thing -- you need to eat less than you burn.  Some extra app suppression, and eating loads of bulky foods like whole grains and fruits and veggies, and you should be in a caloric deficiet.
 
Strive for 500-1000 calories in deficiet per day.  That will net you you 1-2 pounds of fat loss per week.
 
Now, you want something to aid fatloss?  You have started your research, good.  Many good thermogenics have caffiene, like our Basic Cuts.  Okay, so you no you don't want caffiene.  The only good thermogenic I am aware of is Avant Labs HEAT Stack.  Look at that.
 
However, it seems from your post you would rather NOT go the thermogenic route.  So you need to look at non-stimulating fatburners.  I am sure there are a few gems out there if you look hard enough, but I would suggest you look into our Melting Point, or Lean Xtreme.  They work through different mechanisms, and are potent fat burners, especially Melting Point.  There are several Melting Point logs on this board as well.

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HOT ROX from a company called BIOTEST. The stuff works incredible. Go to their webstie and read up on it. 

AGE 23
Height: 5'9"

Arms 14 5/8"




"TRAIN LIKE AN ANIMAL"

diet, diet, diet...............

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diet, diet, diet...............

amen

RIP Joshy.

Eat for the Body you Want. Not the Body you Have.

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May my Will be My Strength.
May Love be My Foundation."
-Gilbrando

Now, if you decide that fat loss is the primary objective, a little appetite suppression is a good thing -- you need to eat less than you burn.  Some extra app suppression, and eating loads of bulky foods like whole grains and fruits and veggies, and you should be in a caloric deficiet.

 
That the only thing that i hate baout dieting....im always hungry, and supplements that "suppress" it, help a LOT.

You think girls look at what you lift...or what you lift it with?

Age: 17
Height: 5'9''
Weight: 180lbs

ORIGINAL: RUS

Now, if you decide that fat loss is the primary objective, a little appetite suppression is a good thing -- you need to eat less than you burn.  Some extra app suppression, and eating loads of bulky foods like whole grains and fruits and veggies, and you should be in a caloric deficiet.

That the only thing that i hate baout dieting....im always hungry, and supplements that "suppress" it, help a LOT.

 
If you diet right, and I hate the word diet......if you eat right you won't be hungry and can do it for bulk or leaning.  I am one with appetite issues, I want muscle but have no appetite but now back to eating right....I am up to 8 meals per day!!!!!!!!!!  and my portions are getting bigger but never hungry, yet I am leaning..............and I am not even cutting carbs or anything right now, just separating foods........been trying Don Lemmons Know How diet and holy smokes........been competing for 10 years now and never have I been on a meal plan eating the things I am now and still lean out how I am yet I am getting bigger and harder fast!  Its amazing but food really is 88% toward results!
I took time off after contest season last year and slacked on eating, let myself skip meals and was drinking tons of pepsi, my weakness.......now I do what I please on teh weekend but still find I have to have SOMETHING every 2 hours, my stomach DEMANDS it, and the weekdays I do it cleaner, no pepsi but I do still have healthy carbs and am lower in my protein intake than on season yet this diet is doing me good, my body reeeeeally likes it and is responding so fast with size and rip!  Its amazing......the strength is coming too.  I have known about this diet for 7 years but only this year took the chance to learn it and try it out, called a separation diet.  I am so used to doing it all myself but trying this was worth the chance, too bad I took so long to try it.  My gains have been faster and more obvious than ever in the past.....yet on lower protein?  go figure.
My point is you can eat lots and get your goals achieved but have to be balanced.

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Linda, you clearly have a terrific physique, and are an experienced lifter.
 
I must say, however, that your post clearly indicates that you do not have a *normal* physique or metabolism.  Few of us can achieve what you have, eating in the manner you indicate.
 
Simply, many of use cannot "eat right and not be hungry". 

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True enough but I work with many men who are builders and some compete while others don't, 99%of those I work with are natural and not on anabolics...........on the meals plans I give them, they are never hungry!  I guess my point is that if you eat every 2-3 hours and have clean foods you can lean without hunger, and portions of proteins not need be minimized, just the starchy carbs.  tons of Fibrous greens help with hunger and to digest the protein efficiently but you did mentioned you do look at these factors.
I read your post but why not give us a meal day or 2, what you eat that day, when and how much......maybe we can help with more detailed suggested which are more specific to your personal needs.............I bet I can suggest a meal plan which will get you your goals.........with no hunger and no appetite suppressants.
 

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ORIGINAL: Twin Peak

Now, you want something to aid fatloss?  You have started your research, good.  Many good thermogenics have caffiene, like our Basic Cuts.  Okay, so you no you don't want caffiene.  The only good thermogenic I am aware of is Avant Labs HEAT Stack.  Look at that.

However, it seems from your post you would rather NOT go the thermogenic route.  So you need to look at non-stimulating fatburners.  I am sure there are a few gems out there if you look hard enough, but I would suggest you look into our Melting Point, or Lean Xtreme. 

 
Insert SesaThin here ^

Hey did anyone pay attention to his question?????????
Everybody is given him diets. You guys sound like you are reading your answers right out of fit magazine. This is why I stop posting for the last month no imagination!
 
What he requested is a product that would burn fat and not suppress his appetite.
Sorry kido there is not such thing!
Contrary to what some guys want you to think you can not burn fat and build muscle at the same time.
 
But if you want a mixture that will get the result you desire here it is;
Have you ever heard of guggulsterone? This is supposed to release fat from adipocytes more rapidly than ephedrine. but many don't realize it because they don't get a burst of energy. Oh yeah it suppresses you appetite.
 
1.      Take a product with only gugulesterone nothing else! 
2.       Next you take 250 mg of tribulus ( standardized to a minimum of 20% protodioscin)
3.      then take yohimba 1111 by Optimum Nutrition ( no other brand) on an empty stomach three times a day only, I said only ,one more time only on workout days and never more than 4 days a week  did I say never more than 4 days a week?
 
Now eat
1.      eat  1 gram of carbohydrate for every two pounds you weigh now!
2.      eat 3 grams of protein for every pound you weigh now!
3.      and eat one gram of fat for every 9 pounds you weigh now
 
And you will grow while losing fat I promise you this. …provided you can afford  it
 
I used this method training for the Mid-Atlantic bodybuilding championships and went form 180 1lb out of shape to 202 with a 3 % body fat.  My arms went form 17 ½ to 18 and ripped and my calves gain an entire inch to 17” in only 2 months but…..
 
 
Before you start let me tell you the negatives
1.      it costly, I was spending around 160 dollars a week on supplements
2.      if you don't get enough fat you will get sick because it lower your immunity like crazy In the middle of May on a 85 degree day I was shivering with cold.
3.      I was having a BM about every four days and then it hurt like hell
4.      as soon as I went off that diet my weight went down to 190lbs and my body fat to about 8% of course I was eating like normal people
5.      It causes a little shrinking where men prefer to get bigger not smaller. The amazing thing is that I never touch and pro-hormone or steroid!! this was legal stuff
 
 
The positive the shrinking problem went away I’m back to normal and I won the contest.
Will this plan work absolutely would I do again hell no! Should you do it No, but you will, and when you kill yourself doing stupid things like this. Remember I gave you the truth you were the one that wanted a short cut from diet and exercise.
 
Remember anything worth having is worth working hard for.
 
Just a note this supplement method is actually used by many natural bodybuilders, which is why the sport of bodybuilding is not nearly as healthy as it appears to be.
 
So why would I give advice like this to a young bodybuilder because when it get it from the gym they will only tell him the positives and never let him know that he can seriously damage his liver and kidneys  But I on the other hand just did!
 

Troy “Awwsum” Pearsall
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost?

That was funny, thanks.

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Linda...
 

"I am up to 8 meals per day!!!!!!!!!!  and my portions are getting bigger but never hungry, yet I am leaning..............and I am not even cutting carbs or anything right now, just separating foods........been trying Don Lemmons Know How diet and holy smokes........been competing for 10 years now and never have I been on a meal plan eating the things I am now and still lean out how I am yet I am getting bigger and harder fast!"

 
You know about TEF right?
 
On 8 meals a day, with your exceptional and highly trained physique...TEF is a much more significant factor.
 
For a normal person, TEF might be 250 calories a day on 3 meals.
 
But for you that would be more in the area of 500 on 3 meals.
 
You could be burning 1200+ a day just from TEF with 8 meals. 
 
Yet, your muscles and energy are still getting what they need! Of course you are keeping your eating in pace with your metabolism!
 
Also the carbs DO take more calories to process!
 
Add to that the subtle refinement of seperation, which I have seen very little clinical info on...but works in my head if one were to eat more frequently.
 
Twin Peak

Simply, many of use cannot "eat right and not be hungry". 

 
It is not so! Just as Linda says, those of us who are knowledgable can design diets that satisfy the hunger and still achieve the goals...
 
I bet bet you she can

suggest a meal plan which will get you your goals.........with no hunger and no appetite suppressants.

 
In fact, I am almost certain of it.

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While I appreciate your enthusiasm, you are clearly not speaking from experience.  No offense intended.

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Truly, No offense taken.  I meant it in good spirit.  I appreciate the ... rebuke.
 
I understand you might experience challenges with satiety.
 
I am one of those people who was nearly insatiable for some time.

After over 20 years planning diets and training, and doing this for others for quite some time...as a researcher, as a trainer, and as a weight loss and lifestyle consultant...

I understand the dynamics of achieving satiety for most healthy people.

I assume we are referring to:

Simply, many of use cannot "eat right and not be hungry".

While I know there are a few disorders that make this a great challenge..satiety for most healthy people can be worked out in a healthy and goal appropriate manner.
 
Naturally, when cutting and the fasting that attends it, there can be hunger.  In this case, as in cases of people who are not sated easily.  It is often a matter of eating the largest amount of food within the parameters of the goal and meeting the proportions dictated by the individuals metabolic needs, chemisrty, and preferences.
 
For some, carbs satisfy, for others they create hunger...etc  Go figure!

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Perhaps I underestimated your actual experience.  I don't wish to compare resumes, but suffice it to say I have plenty of experience in this area as well.
 
I'd also like to clarify that anyone can "eat healthy" and not be hungry, what I was driving at is that most people cannot be in a caloric deficiet (no matter how they eat) and NOT be hungry.

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OK HERE IS AN UPDATE ON MY RESEARCH ON FAT LOSS SUPPLEMENTS:
 
Well my goal was to find supplements
that were non-stimulant and ephedra free, and had the potential to
increase lipolysis (fat break down) in the body. I have found
several fat loss supplements with key active chemical ingredients
that *MAY* theoretically increase your metabolism by up to 10%-20% if
you live *SOMEWHAT* of a sedentary life style. In my findings I
concluded that this theoretical increase can ONLY be achieved if you
were to purchase these key products and take them TOGETHER atleast
twice a day. I will list the product, product description, and
estimated price, and recommended doses. I will list them from
cheapest to most expensive. So far I have only come up with 5
products.

______________________________________________________________________
THE CHEAP ONES

GREEN TEA: Virtually every fat loss supplements contains some form of
green tea if you were to look at the key ingredients in the back.
This green tea is mixed with caffiene, and they charge you $20-$30
dollars-which in my opinion is absolutley ridiculous. It is much
much more effective and cheaper if you were to go to WALMART or your
local drug store and buy green tea by itself. Each capsule should
contain about 150mg-350mg of green tea (most of which is polyphenols).
You are to take green tea atleast twice daily. Studies have shown
that green tea has fat burning properties/antioxidant capacity/and
cardio vascular + mental health. Estimated Price: $3-$5

FORSKOLIN: For this herb, I am going to give you the direct link to
what this is: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/fors.html
Here is a little snipppet:
By raising cAMP, forskolin is responsible for:

Inhibition of platelet activation factor (PAF) and degranulation.
Inhibition of mast cell degranulation and histamine release.
Increased force of contraction of heart muscle.
Relaxation of the arteries and other smooth muscle.
Increased insulin secretion.
Increased thyroid function.
Increased lipolysis (breakdown of fat)

On the forskolin that I purchased, 1 capsule contains 250mg of
forskoloin. Take 1 capsule twice daily. Estimated Price: $5-$10.
_____________________________________________________________________

THE INTERMEDIATE PRICE ONE

FISH OIL LIQUID (CONTAINS OMEGA 3 FATTY ACIDS)

You have all heard the saying that you need the good fats to burn the
bad fats. Well fish oil is a great supplement that just does that.
Ofcourse you can do your own research on the benefits of Fish Oil.
However, I recommend that you do not take the capsules, because
inorder to get those benefitial effects, you will need to take 8
capsules a day to get 800 mg of the 2 respecitve omega 3 fatty acids
that contain in fish oil. You can get the same amount in just taking
1-2 teaspoonsful of that stuff in liquid form. Fish oil liquid is
not as bad as you think. I have tried that stuff, and its not that
bad, i like the lemony after taste. Also, flax seed oil does contain
an omega 3 fatty acid called alpha linoeic acid, but that omega 3
fatty acid is *NOT* the same omega 3 fatty acid found in fish oil.
When you take flaxeed oil, you body eventually converts into the 2
omega 3 fatty acids found in fish oil, but it is limited by the
enzyme in your body. It can take up to 10 hours for your body to do
that, and only in small minute amounts. I do not recommend taking
flaxeed, you will get far greater benefits from fish oil. There are
several companies that make liquid fish oil. Estimated Price $14-$20
_____________________________________________________________________

THE EXPENSIVE ONES

BETA 3 BY SYNTRAX: Here are several links to the products description:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/syn/beta3.html
http://www.si03.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=19

The key ingredient is Octopamine/Norsynephrine HCL. Octopamine is
just another name for norsynephrine. 2 names for the same chemical.
It is thought, that this chemical stimulates the BETA 3 receptors on
your fat cells. There are several studies that have shown that this
chemical increases fatty-acid metabolism in rats, but no studies have
really proven the same affect in humans. There are several fat loss
supplements that contain this chemical in combination with caffiene
and green tea, but in lesser amounts. Whether or not this is
affective remains to be seen. Some studies have shown that this
chemical is readily destroyed through digestion, so you have to take
large doses of this stuff to have *some* affect on your body. My
advice is try and see if it works if you have the money. There are 2
versions of beta 3. 1 version contains 120 capsules , and 1 capsule
= 150 mg of Norsynephrine/Octopamine. The other contains 90 capsules
and 1 capsule = 500mg of Octopamine/Norsynephrine. Take 1 capsule
atleast 3 times a day. Estimated Price $30-45

MELTING POINT by Designer Supplements: Here are the direct links:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/design/melt.html
http://www.designersupps.com/static_site/meltingpoint.php

This is an unusual supplement because the active ingredient in this
product is called "LipidAce: 500mg " Lipid Ace contains a modified
fatty acid called "Tetradecylthioacetic Acid" You can do a google
search on what this chemical actually does, but it shows strong fatty
acid metabolism activity. I went to several bodybuilding forums, and
a lot of people posted positive effects. One of the key things they
noticed was their increase in core temperature, and how they were
ready to break a sweat by just doing mediocre activities. May be a
sign of how this product works. You can take up to 8 capsules per
day but it is recommended that you start with a low dose and see how
you tolerate it. Estimated Price $40-$45
____________________________________________________________________

OTHER SUPPLEMENTS NOT ON THE LIST BUT CAN BE TAKEN:

CAFFIENE: Caffiene is in almost every fat loss supplement out there,
and studies have shown that it only mildly increases metabolism.
Most fat loss supplements contain 200mg-300mg of caffiene in its
anhydrous form, which means you are going to have to drink a lot of
water, because it is a diuretic. It is much better to get caffiene
pills by itself, because it saves you a whole lot of money than some
company that combines caffiene with green tea and charge you $20-$30
for it. What I hate about caffiene is that it gives you that initial
energy/concentration kick, and after that you totally crash. It took
me a long time to quit that stuff (by drinking coffee), and I am
trying to obtain natural energy. I also get jittery feelings when i
take this stuff, but thats just me. That is why when you buy the fat
loss supplements that contain caffiene and green tea, you have to
take it several times a day to avoid that energy crash. Not worth it
in my opinion, but has some mild effects. It can reduce unwanted
water retention. $4-$8

YOHIMBE: This herb is to stimulate male libido, but studies have
shown that it also increases metabolism. This drug is also FDA
approved for male libido. I dont really know about this one, cause
Im still kinda young, and after excersise I feel horny anyways. I
dont want to be too horny lol! $5-$10
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CONCLUSION: Green Tea and Caffiene have been around for a long time,
but before you decide to purchase any of the other products I listed,
consult your physician, nutritionist and other health care
professional. Second, I encourage you to do your own thorough
research on these products before you even *think* of purchasing them.
Search around the internet and look for product reviews and make your
own final judgement on whether you think this will be affective for
you. I dont think that if you were to take any of these products by
itself you would notice any improvement. I think if you were to take
all of these supplements: forskolin, green tea, fish oil, beta 3,
melting point, i think you would notice some accelerated affects on
your metabolism. But then again, Law always emphasizes that the key
to burning fat and building muscle is to keep it simple to its core,
by proper nutrition, cardio and wieght lifting excersises with proper
sleep. If you rely too much on these supplements and not on the
basic principles, then you will basically waist your money. Taking
these supplements with proper nutrition and excersise WILL accelerate
your metabolism and muscle growth. Please feel free to post comments
and your own reviews if you have taken any of these supplements.
Thanks everyone, hope this was informative

In regards to diet, i know you are suppose to eat more frequent meals composed of lean meats, complex carbs, high fiber.
 
It is easy to say those things, but the hardest part in regards to that are the actual recipes in making such meals.  I am an extremely busy person and i hardly have time to cook, so i need something that tastes great, and is good to go.  I realized that i need to pre-cook all my meals, but i am very selective and picky in this matter.  I get sick of the same things fast.  I like variety.  Sometimes i do not like eating cause i know i have nothing forward to look for in terms of eating.
 
Here are the things that i like to eat
 
-I love italian food, especially pasta.  I know pasta has starchy carbs, but i bought organic whole wheat pasta so thats suppose to be better right?
 
-I also like chinese food, i love hot and sour soup, but i have not been sucessful in making such a soup that tastes like restaurants.
 
-I also like jamba juice, i dont know if u have heard of such a place, but i think they make the best fruit smoothies. awesome pre-workout, post workout drink!  i like drinking thats stuff in the morning too!
 
-Protien powders tastes totally suck in my opinion, but i have found one brand that totally blew away.  That brand is called SYNTRAX NECTAR PROTIEN, and it literally tastes like fruit juice with no sugar what so ever!
 
-I go to this place in chicago (if anyone lives there) called noodles and company, and i order one of my favorite dish: pesto cavatappi
its pasta with like this green sauce, i forgot what the ingredients are, but if anyone has any idea what it is, please give me the recipe! 
 
-i like chicken grilled, and well cooked, and if anyone can give me a recommendation on a good small griller with reasonable price, that would be great!
 
 

Just a few notes to add to your research.

There are a few "classes" of Fat loss supplements you might look into.

A progression that is often followed includes starting with a Lipotropic to lesson the fat content in the liver, then switch to pyruvate for 4-8 weeks.  These have show to be beneficial in calorie restriced regimens.

Those that specifically support fat losses:
>Liptropics - meaning that they help your body metabolize fat or slow down the rate at which it's stored. Vitamins B5 and B6, biotin, choline, inositol, lecithin, and lipoic acid

Those that increase energy expenditure:
>Pyruvate - studies have found evidence that pyruvate or DHAP (a combination of pyruvate and the related substance dihydroxyacetone) can aid weight loss and/or improve body composition.

>7-Keto-DHEA (NOT DHEA)

>Bitter Orange-(Citrus aurantium L., or Sour Orange)-Often found in place of ephedra in "ephedra-free" products. Contains a stimulant.

>MCT oil (i.e. coconut oil), but only for the first 2 weeks after which affects seem to dissipate.

Stimulants:
which you covered

Those that help control the appetite:
Which you mentioned no interest in.
>5-HTP
>Garcinia cambogia [Hydroxycitric acid (HCA)]
there are many others in this category.

Other weight loss aids:
>Chromium
>Fiber
>Vitamin C
>Calcium from dairy products only

Other herbs and supplements:
sometimes recommended for weight loss for reasons that are unclear include buckthorn, cayenne, chickweed, coenzyme Q10, cranberry, fennel, flax, ginger, ginkgo, gotu kola, grape seed extract, hawthorn, licorice, milk thistle, parsley, passionflower, plantain, white willow, yellow dock, yucca, and zinc.

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I cant answer for the other products listed on other but the white willow, is commenly used as part of an ECA stack, Ephedra, Caffiene, and Aspirin.
The white willow being used instead of the aspirin - see below.
PS I have said it before but currently ephedra is (however temporary) available for purchase again.

The active ingredient in white willow is salicin, which the body converts into salicylic acid. The first aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) was made from a different salicin-containing herb--meadowsweet--but works in essentially the same way. All aspirin is now chemically synthesized. It's not surprising, then, that white willow bark is often called "herbal aspirin."

I am not interested in taking aspirin.  I have no idea how aspirin can induce fat loss, and i am not interested in stimulants (including caffiene).  The glucosterrons or whatever is an interesting supplement, but forskolin works in a similar way. Taking pyruvate in my opinion is kind of useless, because your body makes tons of pyruvate from glucose metabolism.  There is no need for such things.  The key thing i am lookin for are supplements with active ingrediants that specifically attack fat cells and forcing them to RELEASE fat, plus METABOLIZING the fat released from the fat cells. The fat loss supplements that i have listed are the only ones that seem to do such things (excluding caffiene and yohimbe).
There is not much known about how beta 3 works, and there are few testomonials that have showed positive results, but there have been a lot of positive reports on MELTING POINT.

So far i have:

Green Tea capsules
Forskolin Capsules
Fish Oil liquid
Alpha Lipoic Acid

I need to save up to get:
Beta 3
Melting Point

If you are going to take Melting point, make certain that you supplement with electrolytes (potassium and Magnesium). The cramps are unbelievable, ,when you use it without.

www.mindandmuscle.net

I have heard of people getting cramps from melting point, but does it really really work? so if i supplement my self with gatorade ill be ok?

It works very well for me. Honestly the feedback is 50/50. Some people are melting the fat straight off and others are getting nothing. I base this on the logs I've read.

Gatorade isn't going to get the job done as far as electrolytes go unless you drink a ton of it, which would kill the effects of the melting point due to the excess calories. For electrolytes you have 3 options. K and Mg pills, pedialyte (not sure about this but robboe uses it), or V8.

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