Working 1 body part per week!?

Just some thoughts on frequency.....
 
I'm not trying to make fun but seriously.. how many of you guys that are training naturally, (steroid free) actually think you're hitting your muscles so hard that they actually need a full week to recover???
 
Keep in mind, I'm referring to hypertrophy... in order for hypertrophy to occur.. two things need to happen....
 
1:The muscle needs to be stimulated to the point of micro damage.
2:The body needs to have proper nutrition in order for the micro damaged muscle to repair itself and grow.
 
In it's simplest form.. that's all that needs to take place for a person to achieve hypertrophy....
 
The key word here is mico damage.  The more advanced a lifter is, (more developed muscles) the more difficult it becomes to micro damage the muscle.
 
Point being.   Unless you've been training for years and years and already have developed muscles, there is absolutely no need to spend an entire training session hitting the pec from every possible angle.  Once micro damage is achieved.. everything else is more less a waste of time and can actually hinder growth instead of helping it.
 
at some point, you reach a point of diminishing return and it's pointless to continue tearing down muscle tissue.
 
This is where frequency plays a huge role for hypertrophy..
 
Recover time?  it's no secret and well documented that one average a muscle can recover in as little as 36-48 hours after micro damage has been achieved.  If the recovered muscle is not trained again, it starts to un-adapt and goes into a semi-anti-catabolic state for the the remaining days it's not being trained... Basically its like having a plastic cup with a hole in it... day one you fill the glass half way.. by the time day 7 rolls around.. the water you put into the cup has already leaked out and you're pretty much starting from scratch...   
 
So why do so many intermediate lifters do 1 muscle per week training?  IMO it's because the entire body building industry has such a huge focus on how anabolic steroid using pro body builders train...... Pro's who use anabolic are able to train their muscles to a degree the natural lifter just isn't capable of.. They need 7 days to recover from the massive amount of punishment they inflict on their muscles.. something the natural training athlete is unable to do without injury or CNC fatigue setting in..
 
 

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

ORIGINAL: smoundzou

Just some thoughts on frequency.....

I'm not trying to make fun but seriously.. how many of you guys that are training naturally, (steroid free) actually think you're hitting your muscles so hard that they actually need a full week to recover???

Keep in mind, I'm referring to hypertrophy... in order for hypertrophy to occur.. two things need to happen....

1:The muscle needs to be stimulated to the point of micro damage.
2:The body needs to have proper nutrition in order for the micro damaged muscle to repair itself and grow.

In it's simplest form.. that's all that needs to take place for a person to achieve hypertrophy....

The key word here is mico damage.  The more advanced a lifter is, (more developed muscles) the more difficult it becomes to micro damage the muscle.

Point being.   Unless you've been training for years and years and already have developed muscles, there is absolutely no need to spend an entire training session hitting the pec from every possible angle.  Once micro damage is achieved.. everything else is more less a waste of time and can actually hinder growth instead of helping it.

at some point, you reach a point of diminishing return and it's pointless to continue tearing down muscle tissue.

This is where frequency plays a huge role for hypertrophy..

Recover time?  it's no secret and well documented that one average a muscle can recover in as little as 36-48 hours after micro damage has been achieved.  If the recovered muscle is not trained again, it starts to un-adapt and goes into a semi-anti-catabolic state for the the remaining days it's not being trained... Basically its like having a plastic cup with a hole in it... day one you fill the glass half way.. by the time day 7 rolls around.. the water you put into the cup has already leaked out and you're pretty much starting from scratch...   

So why do so many intermediate lifters do 1 muscle per week training?  IMO it's because the entire body building industry has such a huge focus on how anabolic steroid using pro body builders train...... Pro's who use anabolic are able to train their muscles to a degree the natural lifter just isn't capable of.. They need 7 days to recover from the massive amount of punishment they inflict on their muscles.. something the natural training athlete is unable to do without injury or CNC fatigue setting in..

excellent write-up smoundz
+11111

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

GOOD info!

Once micro damage is achieved.. everything else is more less a waste of time and can actually hinder growth instead of helping it.

at some point, you reach a point of diminishing return and it's pointless to continue tearing down muscle tissue.

This is where frequency plays a huge role for hypertrophy..

That was the heart of it!  Very nice.

Many can train and grow on 1x-per part per week. 
However, you can take advantage of faster recovery cycles by training with more frequency.
Meaning you can grow faster.

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How do you know when your body has recovered enough to work that muscle again?

Many times I lift and that muscle will be sore 3-4 days AFTER lifting.  Is soreness a reliable indicator that your body is still recovering?

ORIGINAL: Dolman

How do you know when your body has recovered enough to work that muscle again?

Many times I lift and that muscle will be sore 3-4 days AFTER lifting.  Is soreness a reliable indicator that your body is still recovering?

no.. soreness is NOT an indicator.  48 hours is enough time, and I am sometimes a bit sore at 48 hours.. but that is ok.

if you are working out using full body routines, you shouldn't be sore for longer than a day.  Usually when someone is sore for longer than 48 hours it is due to them working a muscle group that doesn't get used often.

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.

Everyone does not recover at the same rate.

48 hours is a good enough generalization. 
Some people need 72 hours...
Some workouts require more time for full recovery than others.
Some poor diets do not lead to fast recovery.

Modulation of recovery time is also a strategy for progressions.

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Ok this is where I'm confused a little bit.  I have been working each muscle group 1x per week for a year now, and like to get more gains in muscle and train more frequently.

Seems I have two common options:

3 whole body workouts a week
E.G- Monday, Wed, Fri

or a Split
E.G- ABxABxx

The split seems more up my alley so I may try that.  My main concern is that this is only 2-3 days of off time to recover.  Yet in Dan's thread's you constantly see that for strength and hypertrophy training, 4-7 days inbetween is usually advised.

I understand some people may recover faster than others, but we are talking of cutting the time in half here.

Another side question:  During an ABxABxx split, do any of the rules change? 

On chest/tri day currently, I do 4 sets TOTAL for chest.  (For strength or hypertrophy training, that is)

But on this new split routine I'll be doing chest on Monday and Thursday. (twice as often as I do now) So would it be more common to do 2 sets on each day for chest?  (thereby still totalling 4 sets a week, as before)   Or just maintain my 4 sets per session?

thanks guys!

What you're not taking into consideration is, when muscles are trained multiple times per week, the volume is spread out accordingly, as appose to hitting the muscle hard only one time.  With the decrease in volume/intensity, the muscle is damaged, but just not to the degree where 5-7 days of recover time is needed.. as mentioned above, all you're wanting to do for hypertrophy is micro damage the muscle.  The less advanced you are, the easier it is. 
 
Some will disagree with the but your main priority with your training should be to inflict damage to the muscle with as little work as possible.  this not only assures that you are able to keep a progressive load moving forward during your training, but it also greatly reduces the risk of injury, and falling into a state of over-reaching.   
 

ORIGINAL: Dolman

Ok this is where I'm confused a little bit.  I have been working each muscle group 1x per week for a year now, and like to get more gains in muscle and train more frequently.

Seems I have two common options:

3 whole body workouts a week
E.G- Monday, Wed, Fri

or a Split
E.G- ABxABxx

The split seems more up my alley so I may try that.  My main concern is that this is only 2-3 days of off time to recover.  Yet in Dan's thread's you constantly see that for strength and hypertrophy training, 4-7 days inbetween is usually advised.

I understand some people may recover faster than others, but we are talking of cutting the time in half here.

There is never enough time to do everything, but there is always enough time to do the most important thing

 

Some will disagree with the but your main priority with your training should be to inflict damage to the muscle with as little work as possible.  this not only assures that you are able to keep a progressive load moving forward during your training, but it also greatly reduces the risk of injury, and falling into a state of over-reaching.  

Well spoken.

On chest/tri day currently, I do 4 sets TOTAL for chest.  (For strength or hypertrophy training, that is)

But on this new split routine I'll be doing chest on Monday and Thursday. (twice as often as I do now) So would it be more common to do 2 sets on each day for chest?  (thereby still totalling 4 sets a week, as before)   Or just maintain my 4 sets per session?

your current progression IS that you have changes the frequency.

Yes you could dial back to say 2 sets per body part the first time through.  Then the next week (or so) go to 3 sets per bodypart, then follow other modes of simple progression to keep the progress toward the desired goal moving forward.

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Thanks guys, I'm getting on the right track now.

So with multiple workouts a week the advantage is that you sort of spread that volume out over the week instead of all in one sitting.

Well as I said, I currently do ONLY 4 sets now per muscle, and that's once a week. (I've read that anything much over 4 sets starts to get counter-productive) 
Dan, in your last post you said I could start out at 2 sets per body part, then work up to 3 ( and maybe even 4??) with a 2 day split.   What I don't get is that pretty soon thats the same intensity as I'm CURRENTLY training at, but twice as often!

Sorry to get nitpicky about all this, I'm just trying to really get a grasp on it.  You guys are saying that soreness isn't an indicator of recovery, so I'm a little worried I might overdo it.

You will be increasing the FREQUENCY.
Not the INTENSITY.

You will be taking advantage of shorter training - recovery cycles.

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ORIGINAL: danmirage

You will be increasing the FREQUENCY.
Not the INTENSITY.

You will be taking advantage of shorter training - recovery cycles.

Yes I understand-  the part I didn't get was when you said

Then the next week (or so) go to 3 sets per bodypart

That's already close to as intense as I do NOW.  And you didn't specify if one would stop at 3 sets per bodypart, or continue up to 4 evenutally?

Either way thanks for your help-  I'll just start at 2 sets and work up to 3.  I'm sure time will already to be a factor doing all this work in 45 min, so I may not even have time for 3 sets on everything anyway.

ORIGINAL: danmirage

You will be increasing the FREQUENCY.
Not the INTENSITY.

You will be taking advantage of shorter training - recovery cycles.

well said.

and it's true that everyone does NOT heal at the same rate.  however.. i would venture to say that they need to get MORE sleep, and eat better, and get enough of the muscle food needed to restore the nutrients that are taken away when lifting.

i think 48 hours is more than enough time.  if you're sore for 3 or 4 days  AFTER you've been training consistently for 2 weeks.. then something is wrong.

The only people that need 72+ hours of recovery time are the ones that train for 4 to 6 hours A DAY!   and i don't think any of us are doing that are we?

My name is FOX.... and I approve this message.