PHs and Steroids [Was: Question]

I have read some bad stories about the changes in your personality from taking steroids, so I wouldn't want to take them, I don't know much about the side effects, but do they really make your dick smaller, or does it just shrivle up whilst your on them?
 
My other question is:  Say you had two people that had the same amount of muscle, one from natural training and one from taking steroids over the same period of time.  The person taking steroids is injecting testosterone to the level that his muscles grow, but the person doing the training is producing testosterone naturally.  Wouldn't both people suffer the same side effects from the testosterone, or is there a difference between natural testosterone and steroids/PH testosterone?
 
 

 

Anabolic steroids are drugs that resemble androgenic hormones (sometimes called male hormones) such as testosterone. Athletes consume them in the hope of gaining weight, strength, power, speed, endurance, and aggressiveness. They are widely used by athletes involved in such sports as track and field (mostly the throwing events), weight lifting, and American football. However, in spite of their tremendous popularity, their effectiveness is controversial. The research literature is divided on whether anabolic steroids enhance physical performance. Yet, almost all athletes who consume these substances acclaim their beneficial effects. Many athletes feel that they would not have been as successful without them.
There are several possible reasons for the large differences between experimental findings and empirical observations. An incredible mystique has arisen around these substances, providing fertile ground for the placebo effect. The use of anabolic steroids in the "real world" is considerably different from that in rigidly controlled, double-blind experiments (in a double blind study, neither the subject nor experimenter knows who is taking the drug). Most studies have not used the same drug dosage used by athletes. Institutional safeguards prohibit administration of high dosages of possibly dangerous substances to human subjects. Subjects in research experiments seldom resemble accomplished weight-trained athletes. Under these conditions, we must assess the results of sound research studies, as well as clinical and empirical field observations, in order to obtain a realistic profile of the use, effects on performance, and side effects of these substances.
How Anabolic Steroids Work
Male hormones, principally testosterone, are partially responsible for the tremendous developmental changes that occur during puberty and adolescence. Male hormones have androgenic and anabolic effects. Androgenic effects are changes in primary and secondary sexual characteristics. These include enlargement of the penis and testes, voice changes, hair growth on the face, axilla, and genital areas, and increased aggressiveness. The anabolic effects of androgens include accelerated growth of muscle, bone, and red blood cells, and enhanced neural conduction.
Anabolic steroids have been manufactured to enhance the anabolic properties (tissue building) of the androgens and minimize the androgenic (sex-linked) properties. However, no steroid has eliminated the androgenic effects because the so-called androgenic effects are really anabolic effects in sex-linked tissues. The effects of male hormones on accessory sex glands, genital hair growth, and oiliness of the skin are anabolic processes in those tissues. The steroids with the most potent anabolic effect are also those with the greatest androgenic effect.
Steroid Receptors
Steroid hormones work by stimulation of receptor molecules in muscle cells, which activate specific genes to produce proteins (see Figure 1). They also affect the activation rate of enzyme systems involved in protein metabolism, thus enhancing protein synthesis and inhibiting protein degradation (called an anti-catabolic effect).







Figure 1: How a Steroid Hormone Works





Heavy resistance training seems to be necessary for anabolic steroids to exert any beneficial effect on physical performance. Most research studies that have demonstrated improved performance with anabolic steroids used experienced weight lifters who were capable of training with heavier weights and producing relatively greater muscle tension during exercise than novice subjects. The effectiveness of anabolic steroids is dependent upon unbound receptor sites in muscle. Intense strength training may increase the number of unbound receptor sites. This would increase the effectiveness of anabolic steroids.
Anti-Catabolic Effects Of Anabolic Steroids
Many athletes have said that anabolic steroids help them train harder and recover faster. They also said that they had difficulty making progress (or even holding onto the gains) when they were off the drugs. Anabolic steroids may have an anti-catabolic effect. This means that the drugs may prevent muscle catabolism that often accompanies intense exercise training. Presently, this hypothesis has not been fully proven.
Anabolic steroids may block the effects of hormones such as cortisol involved in tissue breakdown during and after exercise. Anabolic steroids may prevent tissue from breaking down following of an intense work-out. This would speed recovery. Cortisol and related hormones, secreted by the adrenal cortex, also has receptor sites within skeletal muscle cells. Cortisol causes protein breakdown and is secreted during exercise to enhance the use of proteins for fuel and to suppress inflammation that accompanies tissue injury.
Anabolic steroids may block the binding of cortisol to its receptor sites, which would prevent muscle breakdown and enhances recovery. While this is beneficial while the athlete is taking the drug, the effect backfires when he stops taking it. Hormonal adaptations occur in response to the abnormal amount of male hormone present in the athlete's body. Cortisol receptor sites and cortisol secretion from the adrenal cortex increase.
Anabolic steroid use decreases testosterone secretion. People who stop taking steroids are also hampered with less male hormone than usual during the "off" periods. The catabolic effects of cortisol are enhanced when the athlete stops taking the drugs and strength and muscle size are lost at a rapid rate.
The rebound effect of cortisol and its receptors presents people who use anabolic steroids with several serious problems: (1) psychological addiction is more probable because they become dependent on the drugs. This is because they tend to lose strength and size rapidly when off steroids. To stave off deconditioning, athletes may want to take the drugs for long periods of time to prevent falling behind. (2) Long-term administration increases the chance of serious side-effects. (3) Cortisol suppresses the immune system. This makes steroid users more prone to diseases, such as cold and flu, during the period immediately following steroid administration.
Psychological Effects
Some researchers have speculated that the real effect of anabolic steroids is the creation of a "psychosomatic state" characterized by sensations of well being, euphoria, increased aggressiveness and tolerance to stress, allowing the athlete to train harder. Such a psychosomatic state would be more beneficial to experienced weight lifters who have developed the motor skills to exert maximal force during strength training. Diets high in protein and calories may also be important in maximizing the effectiveness of anabolic steroids.
Anabolic Steroids and Performance
The effects of anabolic steroids on physical performance are unclear. Well controlled, double blind studies have rendered conflicting results. In studies showing beneficial effects, body weight increased by an average of about four pounds, lean body weight by about six pounds (fat loss accounts for the discrepancy between gains in lean mass and body weight), bench press increased by about 15 pounds, and squats by about 30 pounds (these values represent the average gains for all studies showing a beneficial effect). Almost all studies have failed to demonstrate a beneficial effect on maximal oxygen consumption or endurance capacity. Anabolic steroid studies have typically lasted six to eight weeks and have usually used relatively untrained subjects.
Most changes in strength during the early part of training are neural: increased strength is mainly due to an improved ability to recruit motor units. Anabolic steroids affect processes associated with protein synthesis in muscle. Studies lasting six weeks (typical study length) would largely reflect neural changes and could easily miss the cellular effects of the drugs.
The gains made by athletes in uncontrolled observations have been much more impressive. Weight gains of thirty or forty pounds, coupled with thirty percent increases in strength, are not unusual. Such case studies lack credibility because of the absence of scientific controls. However, it would be foolish to completely disregard such observations because the "subjects" have been highly trained and motivated athletes.Please see the articles on pharmacology of sport and sports medicine in the countries of the former Soviet Union for more information on anabolic steroids.
References
American Medical Association, Council on Scientific Affairs. Medical and non-medical uses of anabolic-androgenic steroids. J. Amer. Med. Assoc. 264: 2923-2927, 1990.
Bahrke, M.S., C.E. Yesalosk, and J.E. Wright. Psychological and behavioural effects of endogenous testosterone levels and anabolic-androgenic steroids among males: a review. Sports Med. 10: 303-337, 1990.
Buckley, W.E., C.E. Yasalis, K.E. Friedl, W.A. Anderson, A.L. Streit, and J.E. Wright. Estimated prevalance of anabolic steroid use among male high school seniors. J. Amer. Med. Assoc. 260: 3441-3445, 1988.
Rogozkin, V. Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic Steroids. Leningrad: Nauka, 1988.
United States Olympic Committee. USOC Drug Education Handbook. Colorado Springs: USOC, 1989.

ORIGINAL: Twin Peak

A steroid, or more correctly and anabolic steroid, is an exogenous hormone.

Use of an anabolic steroid increases ones hormone levels to supra-physiological levels (i.e. levels one could not achieve naturally).

Most steroids are inactive when taken orally, thus they are injected. A few are altered (like dianabol) to make them active orally. One such method is my methylating the steroid. The methylation cause the steroid to pass through the liver mostly unharmed. This, however, makes it quite taxing on the liver.

As well, most oral steroids are not very anabolic (muscle building) and so any experience steroid expert will tell you that a "cycle" should never only include orals (i.e. you could stack orals with injectibles).

A "pro-hormone" is something that is not an active hormone (like a steroid) but it is a precursor to a steroid. In other words, there are enzymes in your body that can convert the PH into an active hormone (steroid).

For example, 4-androstendiol will convert to testosterone (via an enzyme in the body).

1, 4 androstendiol will convert to boldenone (a steroid).

1 androstendiol (1-AD) will convert to 1-testosterone.

Interstingly 1-testosterone is an actual steroid, but a legal one (there are many OTC supps that incorporate it). It is often referred to as a pro-steroid, because (for now) it is a legal supplement.

So, PHs (and PSs) in order to qualify as a "dietary supplement" must be taken orally (pursuant to the DSHEA). So you again are back to the issue of how potent this PH/PS will be, since it is not very "bioavailable".

People estimate that the PH/PSs are anywhere from 5-40% bioavailable. Some individuals have injected these (illegally) in which case you'd see results similar to various illegal anabolic compounds.

But orally, they will ultimately provide some exogenous hormones (and this you see many people claiming terrific results) just not as much as anything delivered via injection.

So, the biggest difference between PHs (and especially PSs) and illegal anabolic compounds is the delivery mechanism.

Now, recently we are seeing chemists methlylating some of these PHs and PSs. Methyl 1-Test is very big right now. It is highly orally active and rivals any "true" steroid. Its also pretty harsh on the liver.

And so with M1T, we are seeing some outrageous growth.

And other companies are starting to Methylate other PHs and PSs.

Many experts believe that once one of these (currently) legal compounds are methylated, they become illegal. So this is very much a grey area.

Hope this helps.

Actually oral anabolic steroids work quite well... and with all due respect, your wrong about the effectiveness of oral steroids. The primary reason for injections is the fact that you get more Mg's per dose and is longer lasting... depending on the esthers used. Not to mention that some steroids come only in oral form and other only in injectable forms. I could go much deeper into this but I do not want to step out of bounds. I'm new... and can already see how "dumb" to be polite, some people can be about steroid topics. I'm just touching the surface of this Q&A... Nevertheless, some steroids are taken for the anabolic effects, while others are taken for the adrogenic effects. Then off course you can stack (mix)different types (oral & oral... or oral & Injectable or Injectable & Injectable) to create an almost infinite ability to do what you want / create what you want from your quest!
 
Also, usually one can expect to lose 15% to not more than 25% of gains made during a typical cycle. This includes body weight and muscle mass. BUT, you must come off for a certain period of time to allow the body to rest and recover. ie; Liver and Kidneys!

 

I hope I do not go out of bounds with this post! This is for informational purposes only and to let people know the facts. I noticed that when the topic of steroids comes up most people who reply have NO CLUE as to what they are talking about, or cannot tell in details why this or that does what it does... I have the knowledge and have done the research!! I've been the 'Human' "Lab Rat" for 21 years... off and on!

-- I DO NOT ADVOCATE THE USE OF STEROIDS -- EACH MAN IN LIFE MAKES HIS OWN DECISIONS! I CAN ONLY "TRY" TO HELP THOSE BETTER UNDERSTAND! -- **ANYONE who does steroids should have a physical with doctor to check liver count values once a month, no less than once every third month! Doctors are sworn by oath not to reveal medical information to anyone... so stay safe and let a doctor know what you're doing.

Info on just a very few of what is out in the real world! I have left out how to use and amounts as well as how long to take... to TRY to stay in bounds with the ADMIN of this forum and website! I just felt I needed to answer some of these peoples questions with TRUE answers... not rhetoric and Mule $#!T!


Anadrol is the strongest oral on the market. It has both high androgenic and anabolic effects. Strength and weight gains are very significant. It is highly toxic to the liver. Anadrol also aromatizes fairly easily. Oxymetholone has been reported to produce gynecomastia in users (not all probably around 50%). An anti-estrogen should be used to counteract the aromatization. Nolvadex is an suggested anti-estrogen. Many side effects are associated including acne, hair loss, abdominal pains, headaches, gynecomastia, hypertension, and heavy water retention. Loss of weight and strength usually occurs after the cycle. Anadrol also shuts down natural testosterone production. It is regarded by the bodybuilding community as the most effective oral steroid in building strength and size. Anadrol has many side effects however, which make it relatively dangerous to use when compared to other steroids.

Anavar is not used for mass. It used for strength gains and muscle hardness. It is low in androgens and doesn`t produce water retention.This drug considered to be very safe. Anavar is widely used by powerlifters, and many women like to use it because of its chemical structure, Anavar wont aromatize. Oxandrolone is generally regarded as the safest by both the medical community and the athletes. Anavar`s prominent affect is that of strength increases. It is very popular among women athletes because it is very low in androgens, and does not elect the degree of virilization that most others do. Even though the steroid is a 17-alpha alkylated the drug is extremely safe. It does not convert to Estrogen. The drug is actually shown to improve liver function in test groups. This drug is higly recomended for people with impared immune systems.

Methandienone / Methanabol / Naposim / Anabol / Methandrostenolone(This was what Dianabol used to be before banned in North Amerika) is an orally applicable steroid with a great effect on protein metabolism. Methandienone is a derivative of testosterone and has a very strong anabolic and androgenic properties. It has a great effect on protein metabolism and promotes protein synthesis. This effect manifests itself in by creating a positive nitrogen balance, supporting the builidup of protein and, thus, skeletal muscle mass. Methandienone also induces an improved sense of well-being.

Nolvadex is a brand name for the drug tamoxifen citrate, a non-steroidal agent which demonstrates potent antiestrogenic properties. These antiestrogenic effects are due to its ability to compete with estrogen for binding sites in target tissues such as in the breast. Medically, the effects of Nolvadex make it very useful in breast cancer patients. Male bodybuilders however, find Nolvadex very effective in combating gynocomastia (female breast tissue development). Gynocomastia is caused by excess estrogen in the male body. In the steroid user, this happens when anabolic steroids "aromatize" into estrogens. This is not as odd as you may think, structurally these hormones are very similar. So with Nolvadex competing for and occupying estrogen receptors, the buildup of tissue is greatly reduced and often avoided. It should be noted that Nolvadex also seems to slightly reduce to gains made during a steroid cycle. Some believe estrogen plays a role in keeping androgen receptors open. This may explain why Nolvadex would slightly hinder gains. Regardless of this effect Nolvadex is the most popular anti-estrogen used by athletes and many people swear by it. One should remember though that many athletes find no need for Nolvadex while others absolutely need it to avoid a gyno problem.

Anabolic steroids such as stanozolol are synthetic derivatives of the male hormone testosterone. Stanozolol has a pronounced anabolic effect with fewer masculinizing side effects than testosterone and some other synthetic anabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids are used in stimulating appetite and increasing weight gain, strength, and vigor. They should be used as a part of an overall program with other supportive and nutritional therapies. Appetite stimulation, increased muscle mass, increased bone density, increased red blood cells.

Turanabol is an oral steroid which was developed during the early 1960 s. It has a predominantly anabolic effect which is combined with a relatively low androgenic component. On a scale of 1 to 100 the androgenic effect is very low - only 6 - and the anabolic effect is 53. (In comparison: the androgenic effect of methandienone is 45 and its anabolic effect is 90.) Turanabol is recommended in wasting diseases and HIV symptoms since it does not aromatize.

Deca durabolin is considered to be the most popular of all steroids. It is an oil based injectable that comes in 100 mg/cc containers. It produces very few side effects. Deca durabolin is easy on the liver and promotes good size and strength gains while reducing body fat. Deca only aromatizes (converts to estrogen) in extreme dosages. It is highly anabolic but only moderately androgenic. Deca durabolin does shut down natural testosterone production, but it is not extreme. Gains will minimally dissipate, if at all, after the cycling period if workouts are kept intense. Comes in 50, 100 and 200 mg per cc strengths. It seems to be the best of injectables for the cost. Usual dose is xxx mg per week with highs ranging xxx mg a day. The average duration is about x to x month. There are very few side effects. Blood clotting time is increased so that some people may experience bloody noses when they are dehydrated. Deca durabolin is generally considered by athletes and sports medicine physicians to be the safest and most effective injectable anabolic steroid. Nandrolone decanoate is mildly androgenic and is becoming increasingly popular with women bodybuilders. Although side effects similar to those of other steroids have been reported, the effects are relatively uncommon when compared to other forms of steroids. Nandrolone does not effect the immune system, unlike testosterone! It will not damage connective tissue, i.e. elbows, knees (Big problem amongst heavy steroid users). It does not aromatize easily. Gives the body a lean hard look. Deca can be detected in the body a year after discontinued use.

Sustanon 250 is an oil-based injectable containing four different testosterone compounds: testosterone propionate, 30 mg; testosterone phenylpropionate, 60 mg; testosterone isocaproate, 60mg; and testosterone decanoate, 100 mg. The mixture of the testosterones are time-released to provide an immediate effect while still remaining active in the body for up to a month. As with other testosterones, Sustanon is an androgenic steroid with a pronounced anabolic effect. Therefore, athletes commonly use Sustanon to put on mass and size while increasing strength. However, unlike other testosterone compounds such as cypionate and enanthate, the use of Sustanon leads to less water retention and estrogenic side effects. This characteristic is extremely beneficial to bodybuilders who suffer from gynecomastia yet still seek the powerful anabolic effect of an injectable testosterone. The decreased water retention also makes Sustanon a desirable steroid for bodybuilders and athletes interested in cutting up or building a solid foundation of quality mass. Dosages of Sustanon range from xx mg every other week, up to xxx mg or more per week. These dosages seem to be the extremes. A more common dosage would range from xxx mg to xxx mg per week. Although Sustanon remains active for up to a month, injections should be taken at least once a week to keep testosterone levels stable. A steroid novice can expect to gain about 20 pounds within a couple of months by using only xxx mg of Sustanon a week.

Testoviron Depot - Enanthate is currently the most popular ester of testosterone available to athletes. Unlike cypionate, enanthate is manufactured by various companies all over the world. Ampules of Testoviron from Schering are probably the most popular although many others exist. Enanthate is a long acting testosterone similar to cypionate. Injections are taken once weekly. It remains the number one product for serious growth, every serious bodybuilder took it at least once usualy it is stacked with deca durabolin and dianabol. Testosterone Enanthate has very strong anabolic effects as well as strong androgenic side effects. Being an injectable testosterone, liver values are generally not elevated much by this product.

Trenabol 200 is a long-acting injectable steroid with a great effect on protein metabolism. Trenbolone is one of the best effective anabolic compounds, promoting protein synthesis, as well as creating a positive nitrogen balance. It is an appetite stimulant and improves the conversion of proteins. In laboratory tests, it has been demonstrated that trenbolone increases protein and decreases fat deposition. It has proven to be an excellent product for promoting size and strength in the presence of adequate protein and calories, promotes body tissue building processes, and can reverse catabolism. Due to its particular ester, trenbolone enanthate is slower-acting than trenbolone acetate and faster acting than trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate. Based on its molecular structure, trenabol enanthate is theoretically stronger than either trenbolone acetate or trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate.

One obvious difference between Winstrol Depot and other injectables is that it is not esterified, being sold as aqueous stanozolol suspension. (It should not be called water-soluble: virtually none of it is dissolved in the water.) This means that it does not have a classical half-life, where at time x the level is ½ the starting level, at time 2 x the level is ¼, at time 3 x the level is 1/8, etc. Instead, the microcrystals slowly dissolve, and when they have all dissolved levels of the drug then fall very rapidly.
Considering the fact that the injectable Winstrol Depot is usually taken in a dosage of xx mg/day or at least xx mg every second day and when comparing this with the actual daily quantity of tablets taken by many athletes, our thesis is confirmed. Since, in the meantime, most athletes only get the 2 mg Winstrol tablets one would have to take at least xx-xx lablets daily to obtain the quantity af the substance one receives when injecting.


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[image]local://6998/A077FDC97A3B4D71B70AB00F153EB3D0.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

That Which Does Not Kill Us... Makes Us Stronger!

-Chemically Created Clone of Destruction-

Maxes @ 40 / 5'7" 195 lbs
Bench Press 425lbs
Incline Press 325lbs
Decline Press 315lbs
Flat Flys 120lbs each hand
behind Neck Press: 240

ORIGINAL: SoCool

I have read some bad stories about the changes in your personality from taking steroids, so I wouldn't want to take them, I don't know much about the side effects, but do they really make your dick smaller, or does it just shrivle up whilst your on them?

Ignorance is bliss.... so it seems. NO Anabolic Steroids DO NOT make the penis smaller AT ALL! Testicular (Your nuts) may shrink a little while doing roids... but that returns to normal after you come off your cycle. The small penis scare tactic is as old as ignorance itself! Usually used by some doctors and primarily by people who sell "Natural" Supplements! Some forms of testosterone are used to actually make the penis larger in teens and young adults.... but I and primarily my wife noticed a gain in the girth size of mine and to a lesser degree in length.

ORIGINAL: SoCool

changes in your personality from taking

 
 
Yes, at high dosages for long times... it will change your personality. You will not reverse this affect either!


[image]local://6998/5CCC438BB6434E47925A1D9329961385.jpg[/image]

Attached Image(s)

That Which Does Not Kill Us... Makes Us Stronger!

-Chemically Created Clone of Destruction-

Maxes @ 40 / 5'7" 195 lbs
Bench Press 425lbs
Incline Press 325lbs
Decline Press 315lbs
Flat Flys 120lbs each hand
behind Neck Press: 240